Legal to transfer guns for safe keeping?

Grimscale · Dec 2, 2024

libertysnake said:
I don't see any reason why, as long as it's done via 4473, he couldn't legally posses them for me and simply transfer them back when I'm settled in another state in the coming years.

This is not professional legal advice.

But what State does your friend live in?
Does that State require a 4473 for private transfer?

The less the .gov knows the safer you may be.

dsdmmat · Dec 2, 2024

Grimscale said:
This is not professional legal advice.

But what State does your friend live in?
Does that State require a 4473 for private transfer?

The less the .gov knows the safer you may be.

Out of state private transfers require the involvement of an FFL regardless of state laws.

dsdmmat · Dec 2, 2024

libertysnake said:
I'm looking into transferring some of my firearms to a friend to lessen my burden during a move later on. I don't see any reason why, as long as it's done via 4473, he couldn't legally posses them for me and simply transfer them back when I'm settled in another state in the coming years. I know he's not going to fuck me and not give them back if I want them transferred back to my ownership.

As long as he legally is the owner of them in the mean time, I don't see why it would be a problem what happens or doesn't in the future, as long as it goes via a 4473 when that time comes and everything moved is legal in both states. Still, am I overlooking anything here? Anything not Kosher with this plan?

So the problem starts when your friend will not transfer your guns back. You have no recourse as he/she owns them now.

find an FFL willing to store your guns or move them all with you. When I moved to NC, all of my guns were packed in a trailer and moved with me.

C3D · Dec 2, 2024

dsdmmat said:
Out of state private transfers require the involvement of an FFL regardless of state laws.

Exactly. And that makes this a really expensive plan. I assume your friend lives in NY and not the new state you are moving to.

-=> You will need to transfer the guns within NYS to your friend via an FFL.

-=> Because you and the friend will live in different states in the future, you will need to transfer them back via an FFL in your new home state - and ship them too.

-=> Even worse if there are pistols involved the return transfer to your friend will need to transfer out via a New York FFL for outbound shipment and removal from your friend's handgun license.

Cooolone · Dec 2, 2024

Ummmm, what about establishing a "Trust?"

Would make it more simple no? Just asking as I'm unsure about this... But the Trust is filed with the Feds and crosses State boundaries as far as I know. File, pay the fees, enter who's in the trust, what's in the trust, and it's done!

Robin · Dec 2, 2024

I can remember when lending your property to a friend was something you just did and didn't require all this shit. Most of you are too young to realize just how much of your Liberty has been stolen from you.
Robin

byron · Dec 2, 2024

Robin said:
I can remember when lending your property to a friend was something you just did and didn't require all this shit. Most of you are too young to realize just how much of your Liberty has been stolen from you.
Robin

Looks like you can loan a gun this is about auto but its still lending a long gun no transfer needed

Q. If a hunter wants to borrow (but not own) a semi-automatic rifle for hunting from someone who legally possesses it, will they need to be age 21 or older and have a license? A. No. A person of any legal hunting age may temporarily possess/borrow a semi-automatic rifle for hunting

https://extapps.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/gunlawqanda2022.pdf

JaguarJaguarGolf · Dec 2, 2024

Where are you moving to?
Can you legally transport to and possess your guns in your new state?
Can you store them in a safe deposit vault in a bank in your new state?
Bring them into a gunsmith in new state for “cleaning” until you are established?

Zerex · Dec 2, 2024

Are going thru a divorce, and have to surrender the guns due to a court order?

Hoping that the guy will give you the weapons back, may be a thorny legal issue if you have a DV situation on record.

Cavalry · Dec 2, 2024

My biggest concern transferring to a friend is what happens if something happens to him. No one will either know what the situation was or will abide by it for whatever reason.
Do you know where you are going? I would prepay rent on storage locker in a reputable area (indoor, secured), box everything up and fill the locker with other items that you want to stage for the great escape.

repete · Dec 2, 2024

You can legally transfer ownership without 4473s and background checks to a parent or child, is that an option?

Koz · Dec 2, 2024

Just my 2 cents, but wouldn't a co-ownership be easier in the long run? They would end up on both of your permits and allow either of you to have possession of them. It would take a very good friend to do that and of course, you'd both need to have the gun removed from both permits if sold.

thughes · Dec 2, 2024

Maybe I'm not understanding the question? Prior to my escape, I took almost all of my firearms to a free state and left them with a trusted friend. Gathered them up once I was a permanent resident of said free state. What is the problem here?

Brawny71 · Dec 2, 2024

Robin said:
I can remember when lending your property to a friend was something you just did and didn't require all this shit. Most of you are too young to realize just how much of your Liberty has been stolen from you.
Robin

This could still be done. Technically (talking about pistols in particular) the pistols are resisted in NYS (they are on the owners pistol). The other person has a permit. Therefore there is nothing that says they MUST be transferred. You are correct, you are letting him borrow/ watch them. Keep your permit valid and there are no issues. Once you get settled, you can even transport them on your own (depending on the state you will reside it.

C3D · Dec 2, 2024

byron said:
Looks like you can loan a gun this is about auto but its still lending a long gun no transfer needed

Q. If a hunter wants to borrow (but not own) a semi-automatic rifle for hunting from someone who legally possesses it, will they need to be age 21 or older and have a license? A. No. A person of any legal hunting age may temporarily possess/borrow a semi-automatic rifle for hunting

https://extapps.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/gunlawqanda2022.pdf

Here's the best part of NY. That guidance from DEC is worthless for several reasons.

1. If you parse the wording it refers only to the need a semi-auto purchase license, and not the requirement to transfer through an FFL.
2. The borders of a temporary loan to a friend vs transfer are not scoped out under this guidance, or any case law yet existing. But certainly storage of firearms for a period stretching into years will not be viewed as a temporary loan but rather a transfer.
3. Most importantly, DEC has no statutory authority to implement rules under the Penal Code sections relating to weapons. Only the New York State Police has authority to do so -- for certain limited topics -- pursuant to the NY Executive Law.

So thanks but no thanks to DEC for writing that, it ain't worth the paper it's written on. FUNY

byron · Dec 2, 2024

I see you did not read the link It does say you need background check to purchase. I said this refers to an automatic I only posted it to show you don't need background check to borrow a long gun for temporarily possess not owned. the way I read you need for transfer of ownership. it clearly says transfer of ownership.

Q. If a hunter is given a semi-automatic rifle as a gift (i.e., transfer of ownership), will they now need to be age 21 or older and apply for and obtain a license?

A. Yes. New York already requires background checks on these transfers, except between certain family members (spouses, domestic partners, children, and stepchildren). Regardless of relationship, a license is required to purchase or take possession of a semiautomatic rifle on or after September 4, 2022. Q. If a hunter wants to borrow (but not own) a semi-automatic rifle for hunting from someone who legally possesses it, will they need to be age 21 or older and have a license? A. No. A person of any legal hunting age may temporarily possess/borrow a semi-automatic

No, you don't need an ATF Form 4473 to borrow a gun in New York if it's for a lawful sporting purpose, like hunting:

Temporary loans and rentals
The Gun Control Act (GCA) allows for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes.
Hunting
A person of any legal hunting age can temporarily possess or borrow a legal semi-automatic rifle for hunting.

However, you do need to complete an ATF Form 4473 if you're:

Selling or trading a firearm
Returning a consignment or pawned firearm
Transferring or disposing of a firearm to a non-licensed person

You can learn more about ATF Form 4473 on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) website.

GOPerfect · Dec 2, 2024

libertysnake said:
I'm looking into transferring some of my firearms to a friend to lessen my burden during a move later on. I don't see any reason why, as long as it's done via 4473, he couldn't legally posses them for me and simply transfer them back when I'm settled in another state in the coming years. I know he's not going to fuck me and not give them back if I want them transferred back to my ownership.

As long as he legally is the owner of them in the mean time, I don't see why it would be a problem what happens or doesn't in the future, as long as it goes via a 4473 when that time comes and everything moved is legal in both states. Still, am I overlooking anything here? Anything not Kosher with this plan?

If you move to a free State, just load the guns.... All of them into the moving truck and bring them down.

No paperwork is needed.

GOPerfect · Dec 2, 2024

thughes said:
Maybe I'm not understanding the question? Prior to my escape, I took almost all of my firearms to a free state and left them with a trusted friend. Gathered them up once I was a permanent resident of said free state. What is the problem here?

This is what I did. The wife was already down here. Loaded the Uhaul with the safes, filled the safes up and drove down here. Unloaded the safes into the new house./

C3D · Dec 2, 2024

byron said:
I see you did not read the link It does say you need background check to purchase. I said this refers to an automatic I only posted it to show you don't need background check to borrow a long gun for temporarily possess not owned. the way I read you need for transfer of ownership. it clearly says transfer of ownership.

I stand by what I posted and add additional emphasis on point 3 insofar as DEC can't interpret Federal law on transfers. Note that under Federal law alone no 4473 is required for private transfers between individuals that are both residents of the same state. However when *state* law requires transfers between two such individuals to be processed through an FFL, then a 4473 becomes required under Federal recordkeeping requirements.

Again if you know the difference between a "temporary loan" and "transferring some of my firearms to a friend" for "the coming years" I'd like to know. And also where DEC thinks the authority exists to construe "temporary loans" as not being "sales, exchanges or disposals" under Section 39-DDD.898 of the General Business Law. (There may be a rule in the NYCRR on this last point, I have not looked to see. There is no statutory definition provided.)

Those seem to be the key issues underpinning these questions.

Vapor · Dec 2, 2024

GOPerfect said:
If you move to a free State, just load the guns.... All of them into the moving truck and bring them down.

No paperwork is needed.

This is what I did, and took off the hideous NY legal stocks in the process. I also bought a pistol a few days later when I got my pa driver's license and permit (same day.)

I've been so busy I haven't had time to change the barrels or grind off the thread protector welds.

GOPerfect · Dec 3, 2024

Vapor said:
This is what I did, and took off the hideous NY legal stocks in the process. I also bought a pistol a few days later when I got my pa driver's license and permit (same day.)

I've been so busy I haven't had time to change the barrels or grind off the thread protector welds.

I am unsure of the reason why people make this so confusing. When leaving NY, their laws do NOT apply.

VietnamEraVet · Dec 3, 2024

GOPerfect said:
I am unsure of the reason why people make this so confusing. When leaving NY, their laws do NOT apply.

When I left New Yorkistan in 2018 and moved to North Carolina, I loaded up all of my firearms and drove them with me. Still haven’t gotten rid of the last few “spurs”, but making the changes as I get around to them.

Screw Whorecul & her fellow ilk.

urjustamemory · Dec 3, 2024

As others that have left NY have stated, what's stopping the OP from just taking them when the time is right?
Also I agree with Cavalry, if something happened to the friend, is there anything set in place from stopping friend's family from taking your firearms to an FFL and selling them, as they belong to your friend, literally on paper, only proof you have that they actually belong to you, is your word and his word.
If you must transfer them to your friend, get something set in place that says they are yours, and yours only and that he is just holding them for you.

Cooolone · Dec 3, 2024

Who says the "loan" occured whatever time ago? Who keeps logs? How is it proven that the loan took place beyond whatever imaginary time limit was established by whatever imaginary authority flexing their wings and grabbing powers not bestowed upon them by the legislature, or case law.

The "loan" thing is novel... So just meet your family member or friend every once in a while and you're good! It's not a transfer, but a loan!!!

Yeah, well, I too already took almost all my Firearm's and stuff with me down here. Why not!? Why would I leave any of it in NY?

Now I got much ammo to transport, lol, that hasn't made the journey yet! And I'll be going around NJ (Southbound) because heaven forbid I get stopped and they find all my HP rounds... Oh My!?!? Lions & Tigers & Bears... Lol

nortatoga · Dec 3, 2024

Any guns owned prior to this CCIA taking effect the State knows nothing about, so doing a 4473 now gives that info to the State.

Depick · Dec 4, 2024

I always like to prepare for the worse case scenario. If you do transfer your firearms to someone make sure you have a written agreement for their return.

Mr. terzmo · Dec 4, 2024

byron said:
Looks like you can loan a gun this is about auto but its still lending a long gun no transfer needed

Q. If a hunter wants to borrow (but not own) a semi-automatic rifle for hunting from someone who legally possesses it, will they need to be age 21 or older and have a license? A. No. A person of any legal hunting age may temporarily possess/borrow a semi-automatic rifle for hunting

https://extapps.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/gunlawqanda2022.pdf

In Ny you also need a semi automatic rifle permit.

byron · Dec 4, 2024

Mr. terzmo said:
In Ny you also need a semi automatic rifle permit.

if you had noticed that is from New York .Gov. gun law . No that is only to purchase you don't need to hunt with one or borrow its only for purchase if you owned before this went into effect no permit needed and it is only rifles

Brawny71 · Thursday at 12:50 PM

Mr. terzmo said:
In Ny you also need a semi automatic rifle permit.

……to buy or have one transferred to you.

Legal to transfer guns for safe keeping?

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