“Fix the NICS” could threaten autistic/special needs families

Acer-m14 said:

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This isn't really new. Obama tried to pull something somewhat similar, with people that were on social security. Namely, it pertained, if my memory serves me correctly, to reporting people on social security, if they were on social security due to a mental illness AND also had a designated payee or person managing their affairs.

A child cannot manage their own affairs since they have a legal guardian. But, once your kid turns 18, as long as they ARE able to manage their own affairs with any federal agency, and do not depend on another person to do so, their should be no reason they they would be even remotely reported to NICS.

Acer-m14 said:

@libertysnake so you saying if i find a GF with a mental defect or felony i have to turn in my guns .. did you watch the whole vid ??

so family's with handy caped kids can't have a gun ...

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You just need to properly secure the firearms in the first place to avoid problems with living with felon. Still, I agree that just because someone might have a classification where they need help from a parent beyond 18 years of age to manage something, doesn't make them violent or a threat to another person. I think we should be judging people based on if they're a threat to themselves or other people, which is basically the gold standard of how things are done now. Who cares who a person gets help from? That's my view.

So, I'm in agreement that a handicapped person is not a dangerous person automatically. There needs to be further qualification. Hell, non-handicapped people can be dangers to themselves or others. So it's not something unique to the handicapped.

Well, there are certain degrees and branches of the autism spectrum. Any specific social/learning/disability or disorder would be fair game if autism qualifies as a mental illness. Ever been to a psychologist before? Ever take anti depressants? The list goes on. Has your doctor asked you recently if you're depressed? how did you respond? This would take about 50% of guns away from guns owners at least I'd imagine. Too vague, up for interpretation at this point.

Uzi said:

Well, there are certain degrees and branches of the autism spectrum. Any specific social/learning/disability or disorder would be fair game if autism qualifies as a mental illness. Ever been to a psychologist before? Ever take anti depressants? The list goes on. Has your doctor asked you recently if you're depressed? how did you respond? This would take about 50% of guns away from guns owners at least I'd imagine. Too vague, up for interpretation at this point.

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The reporting part would be if someone else handles your affairs. That requirement still has to be met, if you watched the video. A court has to say "no, you cannot handle your affairs. This person must speak to us on your behalf, and manage your money for you." If a court says that, then yes, it would be reported to NICS. (Not saying that's fair, or a good reason, but that's how it would work.)

Make sense?

And none of this has anything to do with Fix Nics. He admits to talking about a separate bill in the Senate that has nothing to do with the current bill.

libertysnake said:

The reporting part would be if someone else handles your affairs. That requirement still has to be met, if you watched the video. A court has to say "no, you cannot handle your affairs. This person must speak to us on your behalf, and manage your money for you." If a court says that, then yes, it would be reported to NICS. (Not saying that's fair, or a good reason, but that's how it would work.)

Make sense?

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I missed that part I guess. I didn't realize that was being brought back up again.

Willjr75 said:

And none of this has anything to do with Fix Nics. He admits to talking about a separate bill in the Senate that has nothing to do with the current bill.

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I thought this was all lumped in together with reciprocity?

libertysnake said:

I thought this was all lumped in together with reciprocity?

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The guy is talking about a separate Senate Bill. Not the exact Fix Nics bill that was attached to reciprocity. More fear mongering.

I have heard of people in NYS getting denied pistol permits for spouses being arrested and things like that. I could see NYS denying parents gun permits for this. My cousin is applying for her pistol permit soon and her dad is a felon so we will see what happens there. She still lives in the same house as her felon dad.

Saltwater60 said:

I have heard of people in NYS getting denied pistol permits for spouses being arrested and things like that. I could see NYS denying parents gun permits for this. My cousin is applying for her pistol permit soon and her dad is a felon so we will see what happens there. She still lives in the same house as her felon dad.

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Tell her to get a safe. They're not super expensive. Even a small travel size safe that has a securing chord will do, as long as it's not accessible by him.

Willjr75 said:

The guy is talking about a separate Senate Bill. Not the exact Fix Nics bill that was attached to reciprocity. More fear mongering.

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Yep, There is something like 5 bills right now in various stages in the house and senate. H.R.38 - Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 got combined with H.R.4477 - Fix NICS Act of 2017. The combined bill then passed the House into the senate and sent to the senate judiciary committee. HR 4477 does NOTHING to change current law concerning the NICS. All it does it mandate reports and provide funding for those reports.

There are several other bills that started in the senate that have yet to go to the house that would do some pretty insidious stuff concerning who is eligible to purchase fire arms. Most of them are the usual bills put forth by the same group of grabbers over and over again to claim they are doing something.

At 03:11 he shows the relevant bit.

So the consensus I am hearing is that all refugees are terrorists, all illegal immigrants are criminals, but not all people with autism are mass murderers?

Liquid Guy said:

So the consensus I am hearing is that all refugees are terrorists, all illegal immigrants are criminals, but not all people with autism are mass murderers?

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Except no one is saying all refugees are terrorists, or all illegal immigrants are criminals, on this forum. So you can fuck off with that shit.

libertysnake said:

Except no one is saying all refugees are terrorists, or all illegal immigrants are criminals, on this forum. So you can fuck off with that shit.

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I am just saying that the fear mongering comes from both liberals and conservatives. That's all.

From a GOA email I received:

TAKE ACTION: Urge Your Congressman to Sign the Budd Letter

A key pro-gun Representative has devised a great strategy for killing the NICS Fix bill.

But we need you to call your Representative right away because Congress has a short work week. They will be leaving for the holidays in just a couple of days.

So please insist that your Representative sign on to the Budd letter, which we will describe below.

Senate Republicans trying to pass anti-gun NICS Fix

As you know, the House of Representatives passed a combo-gun bill earlier this month.

The legislation consisted of the fantastic pro-gun reciprocity legislation, but it was coupled with an anti-gun monstrosity called “NICS Fix.”

To be clear, Gun Owners of America is absolutely opposed to NICS Fix. And we have detailed how the bill will exacerbate existing problems -- where NICS denies decent veterans and seniors, medical marijuana users, and even those with unpaid traffic tickets.

As bad as this bill is, Senate anti-gunners such as Chris Murphy have responded by calling the House combo-bill “dead on arrival.”

And they are trying to convince the Senate to kill the pro-gun reciprocity portion (which does not have enough votes to overcome a filibuster) and to send the House an anti-gun abomination consisting solely of the Cornyn-Schumer-Feinstein NICS Fix.

Incredibly, there are some Republicans who are trying to help Sen. Schumer achieve his desire of passing the anti-gun Cornyn-Schumer bill.

But in doing so, Senate Republicans would concede EVERYTHING to Schumer, and Schumer would concede NOTHING.

Understand what is going on here.

After grassroots gun owners nationwide worked to defeat Hillary Clinton and ensure a pro-gun majority in the House and Senate -– it’s grassroots gun owners who are expected to compromise!

We are the ones who are being told to give in, and accept whatever Senators’ Schumer, Feinstein, and Murphy want to give us.

We don’t know about you, but Gun Owners of America finds that absolutely unacceptable and downright insulting to millions of gun owners across the country who elected this majority in the first place.

It is hard to imagine what sort of negotiator would agree to such a 100% capitulation, but there are some in the Senate who seem to be willing to do so.

The House of Representatives to the rescue

Congressman Ted Budd (R-NC) is circulating a very important letter to the House leadership.

Rep. Budd is a freshman congressman from North Carolina, a gun dealer and a great friend of gun owners across America.

His letter, which already has signatures from some of the most pro-gun congressmen, insists that the House leadership reject any move to kill reciprocity, while bringing the anti-gun Cornyn-Schumer bill to the House floor.

The strategy behind the Budd letter is brilliant, because it helps to lock in an increasing numbers of House votes against the NICS Fix bill.

The Budd letter states, in part:

“While we are pleased the House was able to vote on and pass the concealed carry reciprocity bill -- to allow law-abiding gun owners with gun permits to carry firearms in any state that recognizes carry rights -- we are concerned the Senate will separate these two bills and pass just the FIX NICS language, sending the measure back to the House without including the reciprocity language.”

Rep. Budd is right on point, because the problem he identifies is exactly what Republican and Democrat Senators are threatening to do.

But Rep. Budd is trying to rally the troops in opposition to the Cornyn-Schumer gun control bill.

If 100 members -- or perhaps even a majority of the Republican caucus -- sign the Budd letter, it would be very difficult for the House and Senate to send “NICS Fix” to the President.

We urge you, in the strongest terms, to email your congressman and ask him to sign the Budd letter -- thereby putting the final nail in the coffin of “NICS Fix.

Liquid Guy said:

I am just saying that the fear mongering comes from both liberals and conservatives. That's all.

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If you have something other than a red herring fallacy to contribute to this argument, you’re welcome to express that.

However, we’re not talking about refugees or illegal immigrants in this conversation because it’s unrelated to the topic. Hence, why your argument is just that — a red herring.

libertysnake said:

If you have something other than a red herring fallacy to contribute to this argument, you’re welcome to express that.

However, we’re not talking about refugees or illegal immigrants in this conversation because it’s unrelated to the topic. Hence, why your argument is just that — a red herring.

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The democrats and republicans both use fearmongering to fire up their base. Their base happens to be the folks that are far more ideological than the rest of the electorate. This crap is what is polarizing our country.

Democrats fearmongering saying people with mental issues are dangerous is no worse than republicans saying illegal immigrants are going to take our jobs or they are on welfare.

The fearmongering needs to stop because it is polarizing our country. The only way it will stop is by people realizing when it is happening and not listening to it. It is hard because they are playing on our ideals.

In case you don't follow that. I am basically saying that many complain about the other side fearmongering when they dish it out themselves. I work with a guy that does it all the time and this reminded me of it.

Liquid Guy said:

The democrats and republicans both use fearmongering to fire up their base. Their base happens to be the folks that are far more ideological than the rest of the electorate. This crap is what is polarizing our country.

Democrats fearmongering saying people with mental issues are dangerous is no worse than republicans saying illegal immigrants are going to take our jobs or they are on welfare.

The fearmongering needs to stop because it is polarizing our country. The only way it will stop is by people realizing when it is happening and not listening to it. It is hard because they are playing on our ideals.

In case you don't follow that. I am basically saying that many complain about the other side fearmongering when they dish it out themselves. I work with a guy that does it all the time and this reminded me of it.

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Dude, WTF is wrong with you? Seriously. We’re having a specific conversation, and you’re totally derailing it onto another topic. Open another topic if you want to discuss this side “claim” in more detail.

I’ve said this multiple times now.