Is there any reason NOT to get a 40 S&W? Any guns to avoid?

ArmedCorgi said:

@PbTarget here is a good article that talks about a lot of the things that @Edwardteach72 and @Willjr75 are mentioning here. It also talks about the things I mention and the reason I decided to get a G23 over the G19. Is the 40 S&W Dead? - Omaha Outdoors

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Good article. I ran across this one when I was looking at the .40 S&W a while back. It basically says to stay away from 180 gr loads because they are underloaded with powder for safety reasons because there isn't enough case available. The lighter loads actually have more power because there is more room in the case to work with.

CALIBERS -- Why the 180gr Bullet is a Bad Choice for .40 S&W

I think 308, 5.56 and 9mm will be the first ammo to go in a crisis.

PbTarget said:

I pick things for SHTF.
In my mind, a bolt action gun in 308 or 5.56 is better than one say in .270.
Not due to ballistics, but availability of ammo / components to reload.
A 9mm carbine beats a 10mm carbine as 10mm is more expensive and harder to find.

If 40 S&W is truly a dying caliber and the ammo supply dries up, it is useless.
If the ballistics are acceptable. the guns reliable and ammo will be around for another decade, it's worth looking g into.

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@PbTarget I agree with you on this! I bought a S&W M&P 40 right after the UnSafe-Act passed, Why because I had two 9mm's ( My S&W 6906 is still my favorite the Kel-Tec PF9 I hate! ) After buying the 40 I joined the S&W Forum were I learned that the M&P 40 can be converted to 9mm! I was not going to do the conversion with a Storm Lake barrel being $150 and M&P mags around $35.00. Then a friend at the Club sold me 2 M&P 9mm's mags for $10.00 each! So I ordered the Storm Lake conversion barrel.

Now to the SHTF aspect, During the last ammo shortage when 22lr, 9mm and 45acp were not on the self 40S&W was! (And I don't think that 40S&W will ever go away!) And since then I scored 10 more factory M&P 9mm 10rd mags for $13.00 (I blame the PBR"s!!) and 2 more factory 40 10rd mags for $12.00 (which gives me total of 5)

Now you also mention PC carbines! I have the Ruger PC9 (which I am running now with Magpul P-mags for the G17 ) One of my LGS was at the Shot Show and said that Ruger had 10 different mag-wells on the table (this I heard second hand) I am waiting for a M&P mag well for this PC9! And should Ruger come out with a PC40 (Bingo!!!) All that would be needed is a 40 bolt-head and a 40 barrel?

@PbTarget I've got the Springfield Armory EMP .40s&w

You should check it out. It feels great in my hand ymmv.

masterswimmer said:

@PbTarget I've got the Springfield Armory EMP .40s&w

You should check it out. It feels great in my hand ymmv.

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Jesus, we hit the trifecta here guys

Skip the Glock fan boy stuff, man up and get a Walther
When I got my P99 I was originally looking for a 9mm but couldn't find one in stock anywhere. A 40s&w showed up and I grabbed it. Despite the complaints of sharp recoil, it doesn't bother in the least. Either the Walther manages it well or years of shooting an Encore 308 hand cannon makes me not notice it. It shoots well, I have no complaints at all. And I like the Walther much better than the Glock I had. Not that I didn't like my Glock, the P99 just plain feels better in my hands, has a decocker, and a MUCH better trigger. And the awesome European mag release.
Unless police forces move away from the 40 in mass there will always be ammo available if SHTF.

Edwardteach72 said:

Jesus, we hit the trifecta here guys

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Funny and possibly poignant story......

A number of years ago we had an infestation of ants in our home. I set traps, sprayed Home Depot grade insecticides, made a nice mixture of Borax and Karo Syrup, and kept the place clean. Didn't do squat to eliminate the problem. I called a buddy of mine who is an exterminator. He came over to spray the exterior foundation. While he was dispensing the chemicals I asked him to go a little heavy and really take care of the problem. His response was, 'why would I need to do that? I can't kill them more than dead!'.

The moral of the story is, I'm very sure your preferred caliber, be it 9mm, .45acp, 10mm, will do the job. I'm also very sure my under powered, under rated, tiny little .40s&w will also do the job. If you doubt it, please feel free to come on over, sign a waiver, and test your chest against mine or anyone else's measly little .40s&w.

masterswimmer said:

Funny and possibly poignant story......

A number of years ago we had an infestation of ants in our home. I set traps, sprayed Home Depot grade insecticides, made a nice mixture of Borax and Karo Syrup, and kept the place clean. Didn't do squat to eliminate the problem. I called a buddy of mine who is an exterminator. He came over to spray the exterior foundation. While he was dispensing the chemicals I asked him to go a little heavy and really take care of the problem. His response was, 'why would I need to do that? I can't kill them more than dead!'.

The moral of the story is, I'm very sure your preferred caliber, be it 9mm, .45acp, 10mm, will do the job. I'm also very sure my under powered, under rated, tiny little .40s&w will also do the job. If you doubt it, please feel free to come on over, sign a waiver, and test your chest against mine or anyone else's measly little .40s&w.

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I think you have it wrong. Your exterminator gave you sound advice. Hence why the .40 doesn't do anything more than the 9mm. That's what we are saying. We aren't saying that it's weak. You can spray 30 more grains of insecticide at those ants and they aren't going to get any deader. You'll just get more needless fumes. The same concept goes with the .40. More recoil. Same penetration. Same expansion. Same dead if vitals are struck.

Listen to your exterminator.

Willjr75 said:

I think you have it wrong. Your exterminator gave you sound advice. Hence why the .40 doesn't do anything more than the 9mm. That's what we are saying. We aren't saying that it's weak. You can spray 30 more grains of insecticide at those ants and they aren't going to get any deader. You'll just get more needless fumes. The same concept goes with the .40. More recoil. Same penetration. Same expansion. Same dead if vitals are struck.

Listen to your exterminator.

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not the same expansion and penetration.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

71velle said:

not the same expansion and penetration.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

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Of course. Every round is different. Some rounds penetrate an inch or 2 more and some an inch or 2 less. Some expand to .65 and some expand .75. There are 9mm rounds that perform better than some .40 rounds and some .40 rounds that perform better than some 9mm rounds as far as expansion and penetration go. But they all fall within the FBI guidelines and any of those rounds will perform the exact same on a body of a vital organ is struck.

Not saying that one round is better than the other. They both do the job. Kind of like a 30.06 vs a .308 on a deer. One has an edge over the other on paper by millimeters or inches but they'll both perform the exact same on the deer assuming the same identical spot was hit.

On a side note, there is a reason. 40 S&W is always on the shelves during a shortage. It isn't because they make more of it. It's because less people carry it and buy it less. Before my Gander Mountain got closed, I used to see that the used gun section was predominately. 40 S&W Glock handguns.

People got rid of them more than 9mm and 45 ACP. My guess is recoil. If availability is a factor, you can make availability a non factor by buying enough ammo now.

Who here just keeps a few boxes of 9mm and .45 ACP at home and goes to the store when they run out? Nobody. Most have enough to get through any shortage.

I have two .40s. Both Sigs. One's a subcompact model which even though it is undeniably snappy, I shoot it rather well (better than the other one which is full size...weird, right?). Anyway, I'm not unhappy with either one of them but probably wouldn't necessarily going out of my way to buy anymore. If you want to get one then get one. Let the haters hate.

That_FNG said:

40 S&W is a dying caliber. It has more kick then 9mm but less power then 10mm.

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Dying caliber? That must be why so many of the major manufacturers offer pistols chambered in .40 and why there is almost always .40 ammo available at any of my local gun stores.

OP, I'd heavily recommend looking at a beretta 96a1 (new ones can be found for around $500-$600) or a factory-refurbished Sig p226 or p229. Both are good, reliable designs, and the heavier frames will help mitigate the recoil, no that it needs much mitigation to begin with. .40 is a particularly well-suited cartridge for a full-sized in NY, since the extra capacity advantage inherent to 9mm is a moot point in this state.

Upstate43 said:

Dying caliber? That must be why so many of the major manufacturers offer pistols chambered in .40 and why there is almost always .40 ammo available at any of my local gun stores.

OP, I'd heavily recommend looking at a beretta 96a1 (new ones can be found for around $500-$600) or a factory-refurbished Sig p226 or p229. Both are good, reliable designs, and the heavier frames will help mitigate the recoil, no that it needs much mitigation to begin with. .40 is a particularly well-suited cartridge for a full-sized in NY, since the extra capacity advantage inherent to 9mm is a moot point in this state.

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hahhahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahahaha

we have already gone over the "major manufacturers" argument already, guess what .40 is eithery NOT getting made or if it is its already a model that they spent the money the money on tooling back in the 90s believing the idiotic "best of both worlds" argument shit.

OP dont look at the 96a1 its stupid, also if you are going to unfortunatly look at a Sig 226/9 make sure its not a US made one, or check out a Arex just as good (or better than the US made) quality, the Beretta isnt a horrible weapon, but there are many better choices out there, there are also worse choices as well and pretty much any choice in .40sw is worse than a 92 or 92a1

have 1 40 a Beretta 96 can't remember the last time i shot it. seems as though I'm always shooting 9mm 45 acp or 22lr. nothing against the 40 just don't seem to like it as much as the others

Edwardteach72 said:

hahhahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahahaha

we have already gone over the "major manufacturers" argument already, guess what .40 is eithery NOT getting made or if it is its already a model that they spent the money the money on tooling back in the 90s believing the idiotic "best of both worlds" argument shit.

OP dont look at the 96a1 its stupid, also if you are going to unfortunatly look at a Sig 226/9 make sure its not a US made one, or check out a Arex just as good (or better than the US made) quality, the Beretta isnt a horrible weapon, but there are many better choices out there, there are also worse choices as well and pretty much any choice in .40sw is worse than a 92 or 92a1

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My other piece of advice to the OP is to ignore the internet loud-mouths who think they know what they're talking about.

.40 is widely available. There are plenty of good platforms chambered in it. Both the Sig P226/P229 and Beretta 96a1 are some of the best .40 options out there (they were actually designed from the ground-up to handle .40 unlike some other platforms).

Upstate43 said:

My other piece of advice to the OP is to ignore the internet loud-mouths who think they know what they're talking about.

.40 is widely available. There are plenty of good platforms chambered in it. Both the Sig P226/P229 and Beretta 96a1 are some of the best .40 options out there (they were actually designed from the ground-up to handle .40 unlike some other platforms).

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hahhahahhahaha antiquated "platforms" are the "best" awe thats cute

So you are telling me the best you have to offer for .40 are guns designed in 1980-1983 (sig) and 1975 (Beretta) thank god the best we have to offer are designes from 43 and 35 years old

Upstate43 said:

My other piece of advice to the OP is to ignore the internet loud-mouths who think they know what they're talking about.

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Ah yes OP ask for advice on why NOT to buy a shit round (because it sounds like you want a .40 just because fuck it why not, but also know its a shitty idea and not worth buying) but once you hear reasons why not to buy said shit round ignore that because like 7 of the people on the forum own a gun in said shit round and want to try and convince themselves that their shit round isnt actually shit by trying to convince others its soooo fucking tactoollamizing

Edwardteach72 said:

hahhahahhahaha antiquated "platforms" are the "best" awe thats cute

So you are telling me the best you have to offer for .40 are guns designed in 1980-1983 (sig) and 1975 (Beretta) thank god the best we have to offer are designes from 43 and 35 years old

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Does your logic extend to other weapon designs that have seen longterm use (AR-15, M240, and the Remington 700)?

And back to the original topic: what other .40 pistols would you recommend? You seem intent on crapping on two of the best known but I don't see you providing alternatives (other than AREX). I'm not sure what capabilities the AREX provides that the other two don't.

Upstate43 said:

Does your logic extend to other weapon designs that have seen longterm use (AR-15, M240, and the Remington 700)?

And back to the original topic: what other .40 pistols would you recommend? You seem intent on crapping on two of the best known but I don't see you providing alternatives (other than AREX). I'm not sure what capabilities the AREX provides that the other two don't.

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yea but thankfully deigns such as the "AR-15" has gone under a number of improvements over the years, the M240 oh wait thats right the military really wants to replace that . and the Rem. 700 you mean the one gun that both keeps the shit company Remington alive and is also partly responsible for destroying the company because of a huge class action suit? oh wait there are better options than a bolt action

as for the why you dont see me providing alternatives for .40 pistols, you can if you look you will see i say get a 9mm....... as for the Arex i was just saying fuck Sig and their over priced subpar QC and product since starting to build here in the US. so yea spend half the money for the Arex vs a Sig

Edwardteach72 said:

yea but thankfully deigns such as the "AR-15" has gone under a number of improvements over the years,

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The direct-impingement design that is standard issue for most of the DOD and still used by most LE and private owners is fundamentally the same as what Eugene Stoner developed in 1950's.

Edwardteach72 said:

the M240 oh wait thats right the military really wants to replace that .

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Replace with what exactly? Do you know of another machinegun design chambered in standard NATO cartridge that can deliver a comparable rate of fire?

Edwardteach72 said:

and the Rem. 700 you mean the one gun that both keeps the shit company Remington alive and is also partly responsible for destroying the company because of a huge class action suit? oh wait there are better options than a bolt action

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You're criticizing the manufacturing quality, which I agree has been flawed as of late. The design itself is fundamentally sound is arguably one of the most, if not the most, common bolt-action design for hunting, target shooting, LE and military applications.

All 3 of those designs have been around for a while, yet no one (except for internet experts) has been criticizing their performance in recent conflicts. So to claim that the beretta 96a1 or sig p226 are bad choices because they're "antiquated" is a foolish argument...plenty of weapon designs are old; that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad or incapable. Ever hear of the phrase: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?"

Also, the P226 and 96a1 designs are considered to be 'new' relative to many other existing firearm designs.

Edwardteach72 said:

as for the why you dont see me providing alternatives for .40 pistols, you can if you look you will see i say get a 9mm.......

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Except that the OP has already decided he wants a .40 pistol, so your argument about 9mm is irrelevant.
We get it, you don't like .40....no one cares.

And by the way, people who rely on emojicons, swearing, all caps, and lol's are usually the type of people who are trying to compensate for their lack of writing skills. Learn how to disagree respectfully or don't bother commenting at all.

Upstate43 said:

The direct-impingement design that is standard issue for most of the DOD and still used by most LE and private owners is fundamentally the same as what Eugene stoner developed in 1950's.



Replace with what exactly? Do you know of another machinegun design chambered in standard NATO cartridge that can deliver a comparable rate of fire?



You're criticizing the manufacturing quality, which I agree has been flawed as of late. The design itself is fundamentally sound is arguably one of the most, if not the most, common bolt-action design for hunting, target shooting, LE and military applications.

All 3 of those designs have been around for a while, yet no one (except for internet experts) has been criticizing their performance in recent conflicts. So to claim that the beretta 96a1 or sig p226 are bad choices because they're "antiquated" is a foolish argument...plenty of weapon designs are old; that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad or incapable. Ever hear of the phrase: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?"




Except that the OP has already decided he wants a .40 pistol, so your argument about 9mm is irrelevant.
We get it, you don't like .40....no one cares.

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1) sorry im not privy to what the militayr plans to use as a replacement to the m240, weird they dont just post that everywhere until a lot of details are all in place... oh and yea they have been looking for a while to replace it thats about all the info they have put out so far but you know


2) Who has been critisizing the M16/M4/AR-15? oh by critisizing do you mean all the modernizations, piston driven versions, sadly sigs MXR ? all the other crazy awesome Battle rifles to now come out in the past hell 10 15 years?

3) not sure why LOE got away from revolvers, you know if it aint broke..... why dont we use Red 9 Mauser C96s? i mean shit they worked great and hey they are even old i mean you got to love that right????? oh wait thats right there are plenty of unnecessary extra moving parts just like DA/SA guns (yes i carry a modern designed DA/SA gun from time to time but only when i feel like being snooty just like you, so its actually not that often)

and lastly

4) THE OP LEGIT ASKED WHY HE SHOULDNT GET A .40SW, THATS IN THE FUCKING TITLE OF THE THREAD. ITS FUCKING IDIOTIC TO SIT THERE AND SAY OH DONT BE A LOUD MOUTH BY SAYING WHY HE SHOULDNT BUY THIS SHITTY ASS STUPID ROUND WHEN THATS EXACTLY WHAT HE ASKED, INSTEAD MAKE UP FAKE BULL SHIT ARGUMENTS ON WHY HE ACTUALLY SHOULD BUY IT..

Lets try this, hey guys im thinking of getting a new daily driver, is there any reason NOT to get a Pinto? (caveot i swear to christ if anyone gives me any negatives to buying or owning a Pinto instead of only reasons why they are super cool and awesome and only made up pro's to owning one i will just be soo gosh darn triggered with all you internet noitalls)


we get it you own .40 and you dont want to see it turn into the next .357 sig, or .38 super cool good for you, but stop trying to justify your shit arguments and indoctrinate others into buying your shit caliber just so you can cling on to some 1990's idea of "best of both worlds"

I have a P229, I have shot thousands of rounds, in both .40 and .357 SIG, through it. It has never given me a bit of trouble. the gun carries well and the .40 is no more difficult or punishing than any other cartridge. This is first hand information, do with it what you will.
Robin

Robin said:

I have a P229, I have shot thousands of rounds, in both .40 and .357 SIG, through it. It has never given me a bit of trouble. the gun carries well and the .40 is no more difficult or punishing than any other cartridge. This is first hand information, do with it what you will.
Robin

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Any person that can handle a higher recoiling weapon, can handle a lower recoiling weapon even better. It's standard physics. That applies to experts as well.