For the weirdos who prefer DAO over striker fired
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
Even if the number is zero (which it isn't due to the Harold Fisher incident), I don't want to be the person to test those statistics.
The fact is legal experts, including Masood (as well as many other LE and self-defense instructors) have weighed in on this topic; the general consensus is if you make significant modifications to your firearm or use ammo that could be deemed provocative or indicative of intent, you will be perceived in a certain way by those who are deciding your fate.
I'm not saying I agree with all of that, but it is the way things are in our current criminal and civil court systems...if you think otherwise, I'd encourage you to actually do some reading of some self-defense shootings which went to court and see for yourself some of the arguments used by prosecutors. It's not as if this country lacks examples of innocent people going to jail...so it's not so far-fetched that someone could be unjustly convicted due to biases and perceptions regarding firearms and their employment.
So if I was at home and happened to just have a hand built 2011 open gun and ammo just randomly on a table for whatever reason and someone kicked in my door with a gun and charged at me and I grabbed my 2011 instead of a stock glock 19 that may be in a safe are you saying I may be going to jail because I used a tricked out hand built open gun?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Would you want to give up an advantage in the life or death struggle in favor of an advantage in the legal struggle ?
If you don't consider the modifications an advantage in the life or death struggle, why keep them ?
If you don't consider the modifications an advantage in the life or death struggle, why keep them ?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Except it's still zero even in that incident. He was never convicted for using a 10mm or hollow point ammunition. That and a bunch of other things were thrown at the jury to paint a picture but it was the judge's refusal of evidence to be allowed to be used that caused the jury to rule like they did.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
What “other things” were used? It was a Kimber so I’m surprised it even worked. The judge didn’t allow the violent record of the guy who was shot to be admissible. I think that’s pretty standard but I don’t agree.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Question for anyone that may know. How meticulous do they get inspecting your firearm after a shooting? So let's say you are involved in a shooting (justified or not). Do they tear the gun apart and inspect all parts? Some modifications are in plain sight like say a yellow trigger on a glock, a punisher backplate or maybe a red dot. But what about the not so obvious mods (especially to a non gun person) like say a glock that looks perfectly stock on the outside but has a few changes on the inside. Like a titanium guide rod or a 3.5 pound disconnector. An extended slide lock lever or extended mag release perhaps?
2 things:
1) I've never said anyone has been, or will be, convicted solely due the nature of modifications or ammo used. However, I did say that prosecutors, judges and jurors have been known to scrutinize those aspects and consider them in their overall decision-making process...this is true. You can talk to any number of expert witnesses (Massood) or people who have been tried and cleared in self-defense shootings (Paul Harrell) and hear why it is true.
2) I'm not saying that I agree with all of this in principle. Rather, I'm just saying its the way things are in our legal systems.
So you can disagree if you want....I'm just letting you know that people who have had direct experience with these kinds of cases have provided their feedback on this issue. In reference to your posed scenario, if you are caught off guard in your home and all you have available to defend yourself with is a tricked-out, highly modified glock, then that's what you defend yourself with....any competent defense lawyer should easily be able to sweep aside any negative aspersions in regards to the type or nature of firearm/ammo used in that type of scenario, especially if it's dealing with a "Castle Doctrine."
However, if you're deliberately CCW with that same, highly-modified glock out in public and end up having to employ it, prosecutors will have more opportunities to cast doubt about your character and intent.
Refer to #1 above. I never said Harold Fish went to jail solely because he used 10mm in his defense. However, the fact that he used 10mm was scrutinized and villainized in the prosecution's argument...that argument was bought by the jury and the man spent some time in jail as a result.
Again, I'm not saying its right. And, in fact, 10mm is common enough nowadays that I don't think any jury or prosecution would choose to focus in on that for a self-defense court case. However, using ammo with provocative names (Radically Invasive Projectiles) will cause people to form certain perceptions about your actions and will ultimately influence their decision-making....no one aspect will be a deciding factor, but it all adds up.
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Again, this is why people should watch Paul Harrell's videos or read some of Massood's articles, because they address those sort of questions.
According to all of the feedback and articles I've seen, the forensics analysis is very detailed: trigger weight, obvious modifications, ammo type, ect.
Is that analysis going to be detailed enough to catch every single minute change to the firearm? Don't know. Maybe some investigators are more deliberate than others. But by all accounts, they do a fairly thorough review of your firearm, which probably includes some amount of disassembly.
I think Chris Bartocci over at Small Arms Solutions used to be a forensics specialist and actually did some of this very work for a local PD in western NY.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Why would anyone modify a Glock? Thought it
Was perfection?
Was perfection?
Hey they have 5 generations of perfection....
5.5 if you think about it (could maybe even be 6.5) because the gen 5 G19 and the Gen 5 G19 MOS are not same same (grip and slide serrations)
AnthonyC
.40 S&W
ND increased when LA sheriff's department switched from Beretta 92s to M&Ps:
Rise In Negligent Discharges Accompanies LASD Transition To Striker-Fired Pistol - Bearing Arms - Beretta, Negligent Discharge, Police, Smith & Wesson M&P, Training
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That’s due to poor handling of a pistol. The safety masked their poor handling all along. How come in 10 years on my own I have never once come close to having a negligent discharge? Why because I keep my finger off the trigger. Because I don’t rush to holster.