This whole thread went way left after the suggestion of bringing jim crow laws back
Trump on mass shootings
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
I'll take a Military shit bag over a non-military shit bag any day of the week. Bring on the draft!
Bigfoot
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Gilroy, Garlic Festival - July 28th
El Paso and Dayton - August 3rd
6 days.
Cuomo has to be loving this... giggity giggity.
He probably got a hard on when he got the news about El Paso.
He probably finished when he got the news about Dayton.
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I would expect federal red flag laws tomorrow, if anything. With unSAFE style pretexts for confiscation. I don't think there will be much progress towards outright bans which have never been an efficient avenue for gun grabbers.
Back door confiscations on the other hand are proving to be fertile ground with much less resistance from the republicans and normies.
Back door confiscations on the other hand are proving to be fertile ground with much less resistance from the republicans and normies.
It is ironic that some here think that conscription into mandatory military service is anti American or would be unpalatable to the Founding Fathers. The Founding Fathers abhorred the concept of professional standing armies, they would have despised this constant state of warfare and military spending we now have.
James Madison once said:
"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
The Founders much preferred the Citizen Soldier. A part time military force to be called up in those necessarily infrequent times of war to defend American interests and then return home to peaceful civilian life. The militia is supposed to be the corner stone of American civilization. A Civil Defense force that everyone is obligated to serve in for the preservation of the peace and for relief in disasters.
Inthinkntge sophistication of modern weapons necessitates a small standing elite military cadre but I I think the bulk of our military should be from citizens called into service when the need arises. I think military training should as much a part of our children's schooling as any other essential avenue of learning. In primary school military subjects taught would include military courtesy, history and identification of rank and puropse thereof and other such basic information. Drill and Ceremony also (formation marching).
In middle school the basic technical aspects of military service such as marksmanship and the care of related tools and materials, medical, map reading and navigation, radio use and coms. Students should be identified for aptitude for specific skills and roles for future specialization.
In High School specialized training for specific roles should begin. Figure out who are gonna be the pilots, the sailors, the tankers, the arty, medics, surgeons, the clerks all that and start training along those lines. After graduation there should be a 2 year term of active duty service to hone all the training together. Those specialties requiring graduate level schooling and training would fulfill this obligation as well. After that let em go on with their live not to be called on again unless in times of war. Let them go onto college or to work to raise a family whatever they wish with only a requirement to prove ongoing service and traing with their local community militia.
That is how you build a disciplined, moral and free society.
James Madison once said:
"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
The Founders much preferred the Citizen Soldier. A part time military force to be called up in those necessarily infrequent times of war to defend American interests and then return home to peaceful civilian life. The militia is supposed to be the corner stone of American civilization. A Civil Defense force that everyone is obligated to serve in for the preservation of the peace and for relief in disasters.
Inthinkntge sophistication of modern weapons necessitates a small standing elite military cadre but I I think the bulk of our military should be from citizens called into service when the need arises. I think military training should as much a part of our children's schooling as any other essential avenue of learning. In primary school military subjects taught would include military courtesy, history and identification of rank and puropse thereof and other such basic information. Drill and Ceremony also (formation marching).
In middle school the basic technical aspects of military service such as marksmanship and the care of related tools and materials, medical, map reading and navigation, radio use and coms. Students should be identified for aptitude for specific skills and roles for future specialization.
In High School specialized training for specific roles should begin. Figure out who are gonna be the pilots, the sailors, the tankers, the arty, medics, surgeons, the clerks all that and start training along those lines. After graduation there should be a 2 year term of active duty service to hone all the training together. Those specialties requiring graduate level schooling and training would fulfill this obligation as well. After that let em go on with their live not to be called on again unless in times of war. Let them go onto college or to work to raise a family whatever they wish with only a requirement to prove ongoing service and traing with their local community militia.
That is how you build a disciplined, moral and free society.
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
I'd like to remind you that this country was designed with the intention that only male land owners could vote.
The idea that everyone with a pulse deserves an equal say in who runs the place isn't fundamentally "American".
spat
.700 Nitro Express
They will get their "red flag law", then slowly ratchet down what constitutes a red flag until everybody who ever got a parking ticket, or expressed slight dissatisfaction with the way the country is run is prohibited.
We will need a motivated and dedicated team of lawyers and funding to take it to the Supreme Court. I have never seen a law so blatantly unconstitutional as these red flag laws.
@Airborneguy, in another thread you once rebuked my call for due process before these red flag proceedings occured by saying that was tantamount to demanding an instant trial in court. Well yes, that is indeed what I rightly call for. It codifes the right to a fair and speedy trial.
Without representation in court, without the opportunity of the accused to confront the accuser in court red flag proceedings are unconstitutional. I do not care if the delay brought on by a trial endangers the accuser or anyone else. Liberty before life.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
I have said it many times before.
If someone is such a danger you need to disarm them, then you need to lock them up. No need for these "red flag" laws, arrest them.
How long until one of the people disarmed by these laws is actually someone who is dangerous ?
Apparently that hasn't happened yet, because if it were they would have gotten an illegal gun or bombs or something the next day and gone on their rampage.
So the fact that nobody who has been disarmed by a red flag law has done that is proof that all the people who *have* been disarmed were disarmed erroneously.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
Come 10am today be prepared for the worse of this shit storm you think bumb stocks were banned next standard capacity magazine's and our Morden sporting rifles and AKM style rifles 
Curmudgeon
.308 Win
Well, hopefully this underscores that voting on a State or National level is truly useless.
@meketrefe realizes that our current system of government was co-opted and has been dysfunctional for some time. He also recognizes the value of tribalism - good stuff. His proposed solutions, however, are untenable and only ask for more government as an attempt to fix what's broken. I don't see government as the solution here; now or ever.
If anyone needs me this afternoon, I'll be on my boat.
@meketrefe realizes that our current system of government was co-opted and has been dysfunctional for some time. He also recognizes the value of tribalism - good stuff. His proposed solutions, however, are untenable and only ask for more government as an attempt to fix what's broken. I don't see government as the solution here; now or ever.
If anyone needs me this afternoon, I'll be on my boat.
You're implying that he has a dick. I don't believe that is correct.
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
So easy for the gov to create the required label.
I Am An Extremist
Oliver North
- April 17, 2009
Comments
WASHINGTON -- According to the U.S. government, I am an extremist. I am a Christian and meet regularly with other Christians to study God's word. My faith convinces me the prophecies in the Holy Bible are true. I believe in the sanctity of human life, oppose abortion, and want to preserve marriage as the union of a man and a woman. I am a veteran with skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat. I own several firearms, and I frequently shoot them, buy ammunition, and consider efforts to infringe on my Second Amendment rights to be wrong and unconstitutional. I fervently support the sovereignty of the United States, and I am deeply concerned about our economy, increasingly higher taxes, illegal immigration, soaring unemployment, and actions by our government that will bury my children beneath a mountain of debt.
Apparently, all this makes me a "rightwing extremist." At least, that's what it says in the April 7 "Assessment" issued by the Office of Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security.
https://disq.us/url?url=https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/04/17/i_am_an_extremist_96033.html:sF2UP_1QMRwgYcaYYjpGILqrJjs&cuid=1290197
I Am An Extremist
Oliver North
- April 17, 2009Comments
WASHINGTON -- According to the U.S. government, I am an extremist. I am a Christian and meet regularly with other Christians to study God's word. My faith convinces me the prophecies in the Holy Bible are true. I believe in the sanctity of human life, oppose abortion, and want to preserve marriage as the union of a man and a woman. I am a veteran with skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat. I own several firearms, and I frequently shoot them, buy ammunition, and consider efforts to infringe on my Second Amendment rights to be wrong and unconstitutional. I fervently support the sovereignty of the United States, and I am deeply concerned about our economy, increasingly higher taxes, illegal immigration, soaring unemployment, and actions by our government that will bury my children beneath a mountain of debt.
Apparently, all this makes me a "rightwing extremist." At least, that's what it says in the April 7 "Assessment" issued by the Office of Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security.
https://disq.us/url?url=https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/04/17/i_am_an_extremist_96033.html:sF2UP_1QMRwgYcaYYjpGILqrJjs&cuid=1290197
I mean no need to try and beat around the bush, you could have just tagged me in this.
But yes they loved the individual militia member, but forcing someone into a 2 or 4 year contract in a standing army.
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I have no idea what was said months ago, but I am not necessarily against red flag laws as long as a judge is involved and a hearing is held. I recall saying that I don’t see why these laws are necessary though as I believe a judge can already remove firearms if deemed necessary.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
So, you execute your red flag process, the judge issues his order, and the cops come by, collect all the guys guns and whatever else looks dangerous.
What's to stop him from going out and getting a new gun ?
What's to stop him from swinging by walmart and the local garden center and making some bombs ?
What's to stop him from just driving his truck into some crowd, or his ex's living room?
If the guy is really too dangerous to have guns, you can't trust him wandering around. It's really that simple.
I had said that I don't oppose disarming unstable people but only if the accused receives due process i.e. a chance to stand before the court and the chance to face the accuser in that court. Before the guns are taken.
You said something to the effect that this wasn't feasible and though I didn't respond at the time it has bothered me in the meantime. This was a delayed response to that, not an attack or anything like that.
Due process is key. Fair and speedy trial, the right to face one's accuser and the right to refrain from incriminating one's self.
You were not the only one and I lost track of who else said they were against conscription so I did not tag. The tag was unnecessary to my point.
Furthermore conscription is not unconstitutional nor is it unethical. Unpleasant perhaps but so is jury duty. I think a bit of military service would instill some discipline and grit into people.
I was actually thinking of jury duty this morning..
There @meketrefe there is your forced civil duty
What’s to stop anything at any time? We try though when there is solid information which points to a possible crime being committed. Or any number of things, not related to guns or even crime necessarily.
If someone is about to commit suicide, we don’t ignore it because well, what’s to stop them from doing it again tomorrow?
I don’t think you’d be happy with what constitutes a speedy trial in real life.
Anyways that's a whole different thread that could be fun......
Back to the initial point.
We have 2 hours until what could possibly be a major catalyst for any civil unrest.
I see 3 things may happen, in order, least likely to most
1) Trump comes out, this was such a tragedy, we need to set up research to figure out a true cause, blah blah blah
2) all ar 15s and similar "military style" weapons will be added to the NFA registry just like bumpstock
3) mandatory redflag laws
Back to the initial point.
We have 2 hours until what could possibly be a major catalyst for any civil unrest.
I see 3 things may happen, in order, least likely to most
1) Trump comes out, this was such a tragedy, we need to set up research to figure out a true cause, blah blah blah
2) all ar 15s and similar "military style" weapons will be added to the NFA registry just like bumpstock
3) mandatory redflag laws
This is one of the reasons many are against red flag laws.
Look at the what is it long island case? The guy who had his guns taken due to a judges order because of his ex girlfriend or w/e and he didnt get his property back for over a year, and that was because he had a lawyer
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
Point of information please. Will all forum members that have been conscripted for military service please raise their hand. A curious mind wants to know. 
I would also not be suprised to hear a push from trump on the following
1) magazine limits
2) waiting periods *very likely*
3) Purchasing limits (x number of guns in y number of dsys)
4) Ammo limit
5) ammo background checks
1) magazine limits
2) waiting periods *very likely*
3) Purchasing limits (x number of guns in y number of dsys)
4) Ammo limit
5) ammo background checks
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
spat
.700 Nitro Express
What I'm saying is that if you need to do something, that something needs to be effective. Removing someone's guns and then leaving them alone is not effective. The only people it will stop are people who weren't intent on doing anything anyway.
Same thing with your suicide example. What do you do about it ? Do you just show up and take the knives but leave the sleeping pills ?
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
And to think not too long ago we had it all! We could have gotten so many gun related issues taken care of. We could have gotten silencers out of the NFA! And now we're on the cusp of losing even more.