False accusations

Would it be covered under liable and slander? I'm more concerned about the liberty, rights and damages to the falsely accused.

Nope, thats kind of their plan.
They take your guns and hope you cannot afford an attorney. After a year, they destroy your guns.
If you do fight it and win, you MIGHT get your guns back.
However, some of those things you said during court, like, "constitutional rights" and "2nd amendment" can make the judge feel like you may be violent or threatening the government so he will "redflag" you again himself.

That would make red Flag laws less useful. The point is to be able to take away whatever they want with no due process. If you make someone think twice because they could be charged with a false report then you get less guns away from people.

Libel

Deplorable Me said:

Would it be covered under liable and slander? I'm more concerned about the liberty, rights and damages to the falsely accused.

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Neither. Nor defamation.

Criticalt said:

Nope, thats kind of their plan.
They take your guns and hope you cannot afford an attorney. After a year, they destroy your guns.
If you do fight it and win, you MIGHT get your guns back.
However, some of those things you said during court, like, "constitutional rights" and "2nd amendment" can make the judge feel like you may be violent or threatening the government so he will "redflag" you again himself.

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There is no regulated time for the "destruction " of your guns get them to a FFL fast!

Deplorable Me said:

Would it be covered under liable and slander? I'm more concerned about the liberty, rights and damages to the falsely accused.

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No
According to the government, "public saftey" trumps your rights.
The same way that cops can search you anytime and anywhere they want.....because "officer saftey" trumps your 4A rights.

fresch said:

There is no regulated time for the "destruction " of your guns get them to a FFL fast!

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I dont know, im just going by current law when your guns are turned over to the police.
For instance, if a husband dies and the wife hands his guns into the police, they can destroy the guns after a year.
In these new red flag laws they have to give you time to go to court.

I had mine at a FFL after I was charged with resisting arrest and obstruction of justice, long story, but after 1 year probation I could get my cc back after interviewing with jkm (dead judge in Onondaga county) and giving his secretary $300 in cash in an unmarked envelope in front of him, who then turned and handed the envelope to the judge. Then after 20 or so minutes of being told the 2nd amendment didn't give me any gun rights, it dawned on me to agree with the dead ahole and bang end of interview. I get my paperwork head to the sheriff office to get my permit back and the cop said" did we have your guns because we have been averaging 9 months?". I ask what are you talking about? He states "we have averaged 9 months waiting period for destruction of guns so if we had them they are probably destroyed". I get my permit back, but have to have a NCIC check before leaving, I go to the window pay my background fee stand there thinking they will run it, only to be told the will run it when they have a few more but I can go get my guns.

fresch said:

I had mine at a FFL after I was charged with resisting arrest and obstruction of justice, long story, but after 1 year probation I could get my cc back after interviewing with jkm (dead judge in Onondaga county) and giving his secretary $300 in cash in an unmarked envelope in front of him, who then turned and handed the envelope to the judge. Then after 20 or so minutes of being told the 2nd amendment didn't give me any gun rights, it dawned on me to agree with the dead ahole and bang end of interview. I get my paperwork head to the sheriff office to get my permit back and the cop said" did we have your guns because we have been averaging 9 months?". I ask what are you talking about? He states "we have averaged 9 months waiting period for destruction of guns so if we had them they are probably destroyed". I get my permit back, but have to have a NCIC check before leaving, I go to the window pay my background fee stand there thinking they will run it, only to be told the will run it when they have a few more but I can go get my guns.

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Sounds like a cluster but perfectly believable.
My city has guns for years before they destroy them. Literally years. There’s 100’s of thousands of dollars in guns according to a cop I know. A colt anaconda being one. Stainless steel 4” barrel 44 mag from the 80’s.

The legislation sponsors oft tout the bills as enabling fully anonymous red flag reporting and to further encourage reports the legislation is intended to be structured with no risk or consequences to the reporting party.

The way that some States have written their Red Flag laws, accusers are clear. Some of the wording is about being being in the eye of the beholder.

tony said:

It does not appear that ANY politicians have considered criminal penalties for false " red flag " accusations. As we all know false accusations waste LE resources, tax dollars, and put lives in danger.

Or has there been legislation I have missed?

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Maybe some one could find the names of cumho's security detail and blow them in? KARMA!

Saltwater60 said:

Sounds like a cluster but perfectly believable.
My city has guns for years before they destroy them. Literally years. There’s 100’s of thousands of dollars in guns according to a cop I know. A colt anaconda being one. Stainless steel 4” barrel 44 mag from the 80’s.

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Well I'll be doggoned!!! I was wondering where I left that big old snake. Tell them tho send it to Robin, C.O.D. is fine.
Robin

https://www.thelibertyden.com/singl...7_1Ui3BfCBVE8Rvt5PbGdR8fCTMYrO288YOItNSCmt-ls
A good short read on the constitutional violations under Red Flag Law

Christine Blasey Ford

Anyone remember the Queen of accusations. No proof, no problem.

dsdmmat said:

First red flag action to be served.
View attachment 51123

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Sadly, there was a case in the city of Buffalo a couple of years ago at a dive bar across from the UB campus. A bar manager without warning pushed a patron down a flight of stairs, backwards. The patron was completely helpless as a result and could not use his arms to break his fall.

He broke his neck during the fall. Then, the bar manager directed two off duty Buffalo cops working as bouncers to actually handcuff the helpless and critically injured man, which they did,- rather than render aid. They manhandled him with his broken neck while cuffing him, and left him in a heap on the ground for minutes while refusing to render aid. In fact the man’s drinking buddy tried to help him, and was threatened by the cops and prevented from helping him. I recall he was handcuffed as well by the cops.

The man was hospitalized and later died of his injuries from being thrown down the stairs. As I recall, the bar manager got sent to Attica prison for a fairly lengthy term, and the cop who handcuffed him was fired, and I think he went to prison also?

Tough guy Fredo should really be careful about threatening random people that way. Threaten to do that to me for no justifiable reason, and I’m very likely to consider my life as having been seriously threatened, and respond accordingly.

Update: here is a news link. NY bar manager sentenced for fatally pushing airman down stairs

There's also that right to face your accuser clause they conveniently ignore. They keep the accuser a secret so you can't prove it's someone just trying to screw you over

Legislation is designed to be as vague as possible so the interpretation can be as broad as possible.

Apeman said:

There's also that right to face your accuser clause they conveniently ignore. They keep the accuser a secret so you can't prove it's someone just trying to screw you over

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Also so they can make crap up with impunity.

There will be mistskes done and this is both bad but also might be good as the whole thing might implode. Lets see how they manage this.

fresch said:

I had mine at a FFL after I was charged with resisting arrest and obstruction of justice, long story, but after 1 year probation I could get my cc back after interviewing with jkm (dead judge in Onondaga county) and giving his secretary $300 in cash in an unmarked envelope in front of him, who then turned and handed the envelope to the judge. Then after 20 or so minutes of being told the 2nd amendment didn't give me any gun rights, it dawned on me to agree with the dead ahole and bang end of interview. I get my paperwork head to the sheriff office to get my permit back and the cop said" did we have your guns because we have been averaging 9 months?". I ask what are you talking about? He states "we have averaged 9 months waiting period for destruction of guns so if we had them they are probably destroyed". I get my permit back, but have to have a NCIC check before leaving, I go to the window pay my background fee stand there thinking they will run it, only to be told the will run it when they have a few more but I can go get my guns.

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Thar shit right there is why I would never give them up in the first place!

meketrefe said:

There will be mistskes done and this is both bad but also might be good as the whole thing might implode. Lets see how they manage this.

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OK, how many people are going to have their lives turned upside down in the meantime?

I'm getting to old to have to let something like this work through the courts if it happens to me.

dubleuhb said:

OK, how many people are going to have their lives turned upside down in the meantime?

I'm getting to old to have to let something like this work through the courts if it happens to me.

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When you say have their lives turn upside down what do you have in mind? Is not the local PD who takes poswssion and if a mistake is made they need to return them right away? Why courts woild need to be involved? Unless the victim of a false accusation decides to file to persue compensation. Someone making false accusations they need to undersatand they might be persecuted if they lie or they make false representations to the police.

Be CAREFUL what you say online. In recent incidents, people are getting arrested for things they are posting. Please be careful.

FUAC!
Robin

meketrefe said:

When you say have their lives turn upside down what do you have in mind? Is not the local PD who takes poswssion and if a mistake is made they need to return them right away? Why courts woild need to be involved? Unless the victim of a false accusation decides to file to persue compensation. Someone making false accusations they need to undersatand they might be persecuted if they lie or they make false representations to the police.

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I don't think for a minute that they will say " oops, my bad, here are your firearms back"
It's gonna take time and money and more patience than I have about now.

This is what they want though, try to make it seem not worth it.

dubleuhb said:

OK, how many people are going to have their lives turned upside down in the meantime?

I'm getting to old to have to let something like this work through the courts if it happens to me.

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This is why we should all buy our own body cameras.
Wear it every waking moment to protect yourself.