NY AOW’s

Edwardteach72 said:

But a pistol doesnt require a tax stamp

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I understand, just saying after the "other" is transferred, we begin paperwork to have it changed to a pistol.

Marine Cpl said:

What I’m asking is if I get a lower and take it home like normal, I then apply for it to be an AOW with the ATF?

Not sure what the confusion here is?

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I believe for the AOW it has to be transferred from an FFL as such

JFC please just look it up, it isnt that hard.

"Any Other Weapon" ("AOW")

Is not

"Other"

On a 4473.

I dare you to transfer - anything at all that is on the NFA registry - on a simple 4473.

Just stop.

And as alluded to earlier- you cant "make" an AOW without the appropriate permissions. Ream out the rifling and make a tiny "not a rifle"? Good luck with that.

The only option for an AOW in NY is for smoothbore, but, it has to manufactured as a smoothbore. You can not re-manufacture a rifled barrel into a smoothbore. That's why I said earlier it has to start as a shotgun. But a semi-auto shotgun with the fetures of an AOW will fall under the category of "assault rifle" per SafeAct.
You would have to start with a pump shotgun pistol.
I don't remember where I found the exact text, but it was NY law related, it stated explicitly that an AOW in NY is smoothbore only.
I wanted to build one. But where the hell would I come up with a shotgun frame that wasn't originally built as a shoulder fired shotgun? I can't afford a ready made complete firearm that meets the specs. So, I gave up on the idea.

Ok, made some edits and added info from the ATF...

What does “any other weapon" mean?
The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

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Even from the ATF, shotgun shell and manual reloads only, AR platform is out. Does anyone even offer an AR frame designed to fire shotgun rounds, let alone a barrel for one?

To include a rifle barrel I'm positive it has to be in combination with a shotgun barrel, both single shot. There was an old H&R or something made like that back in the day.
I'll try to find the exact link to NY.

Marine Cpl said:

Are AOW’s legal in NY? I know in the past, people in this state have been able to get AOW’s like the Serbu. It is my understanding that you need a tax stamp from the feds.

What about an AR15 AOW? Not a “Just a firearm” like the Mossberg Shockwave where it’s neither a rifle, pistol, shotgun, or an AOW. If you buy or build a “Just a firearm” , you do not have anything from the feds that says that it’s just a firearm. It can easily be mistaken to be an Assault Weapon Pistol since it resembles one exactly in our laws.

But an AOW AR15 would have a specific tax stamp by the feds that you paid for and I’m assuming some type of documentation to go along with it via serial number saying that it’s an AOW.

Discuss. I’m totally ignorant on AOW’s, the process to get one, and the paperwork you get from the Feds.

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Nothing precludes something that the feds call an AOW from being an AW in NY.

Doesn't NY consider the Serbu to be a pistol that requires registration on PP for instance ? (despite the fact that the text of PL265 doesn't support this).

If you made a semi auto serbu like weapon with a detachable magazine I'm pretty sure the feds would let you register it as an AOW, but NY would call that an AW.

I'm thinking something like a cross between a saiga 12 and an AK pistol (but made from a virgin receiver so as to avoid the idiotic "if it ever had a stock" BS)

Edwardteach72 said:

But a pistol doesnt require a tax stamp

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And you don't need to register your lower until you actually build it into a pistol.

If you were going to build that lower into an AOW you would need to register it with the feds *and* the state.

Go find me the (non-NFA) BATFE definition of the word "firearm."

Throw two hard returns underneath it and add the New York State definition of the same term.

Unrelated but @spat I am pretty sure you cant just "build" an AOW for more than a few reasons. Which I think you're saying here in different words but... "manufacture" has specific meanings that carry... specific sentences.

BDinPutnam said:

Go find me the (non-NFA) BATFE definition of the word "firearm."

Throw two hard returns underneath it and add the New York State definition of the same term.

Unrelated but @spat I am pretty sure you cant just "build" an AOW for more than a few reasons. Which I think you're saying here in different words but... "manufacture" has specific meanings that carry... specific sentences.

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This last part.. you cannot build an AOW ($5 tax stamp) if you do they toss it for the sbr or sbs... only thing I can think of is tossin a vertical grip on a pistol

Marine Cpl said:

So based on what the ATF actually says in the above link, I can build one as a non manufacturer for 200 bucks. Am I wrong?

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Correct, you can build one. Still has to be smooth bore.
FAQ On National Firearms Act Weapons
State NFA Restrictions
I've seen several places stating smooth bore is ok in NY, other than Wiki which says NY is restricted to civilians and refers to S 265.02, in which I don't see where they're going with that. I haven't found the like I found a couple years ago yet.

This from 2012 says no.
Class 3 Laws by State- See each State's Class 3 Laws Class 3 Weapons

BDinPutnam said:

Go find me the (non-NFA) BATFE definition of the word "firearm."

Throw two hard returns underneath it and add the New York State definition of the same term.

Unrelated but @spat I am pretty sure you cant just "build" an AOW for more than a few reasons. Which I think you're saying here in different words but... "manufacture" has specific meanings that carry... specific sentences.

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You can absolutely build your own AOW, SBR, Suppressor, DD, or any other NFA item (except machineguns). You have to pay the tax to have it registered before you build it, but there is no requirement to have an FFL to do so.

Tons of people in free states make their own SBRs and SBSs legally.

Once we get out of NY I am seriously considering getting a PS90, then swapping the 16" barrel it comes with for a 10.4" one from a P90 (after paying my $200 and getting it registered obviously). That's actually a pretty popular conversion, especially of you're going to get a suppressor for it.

You are right about the licensing for a manufacturer, but that follows the same rules as for making a regular rifle from an 80% receiver. You can do it all day as long as you aren't making them for resale or as part of some other business venture.

Marine Cpl said:

Yeah. I’ve found a few other websites that say that you can’t get one here in NY just like you said but they never point to an actual law. Oh well..,

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I would call an ATF satellite office in NY and question them. The office should know if NY allows it or not. There's one in Syracuse.

Marine Cpl said:

Yeah. I’ve found a few other websites that say that you can’t get one here in NY just like you said but they never point to an actual law. Oh well..,

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I think it may be because most AOWs would need to be added to pistol permit in NY.

While it's not strictly forbidden, getting that done in most counties could be as hard as getting an unrestricted NYC carry permit.

Marine Cpl said:

That’s not in the law either as far as needing to be added to a pistol permit. I hate this state.

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Correct there is no such thing as an AOW in NY’s weapons law, let alone that it needs to be registered on your pistol license. However, the purpose of the original Sullivan law was to ban all firearms “small enough to be concealed”. Unless licensed by the state of course, the NY penal law does not have a definition for a pistol, but an AOW registered with the NFA certainly falls in the small enough to be concealed category.

And I believe would be defined a "firearm" under NY law which = had to go on a permit, unless talking about something that fires shotshells?

Just spit-balling.