Meet the Dutch girls who seduced Nazis — and lured them to their deaths

Most of the resistance in occupied Europe was organized by the Communists. Equating Communists to Nazis and denying they did anything positive speaks volumes about ignorance of people who are holding those views.

you give the communists way to much credit

Nevar said:

you give the communists way to much credit

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No, it's a well known and undeniable fact.

Mosinitis said:

Most of the resistance in occupied Europe was organized by the Communists. Equating Communists to Nazis and denying they did anything positive speaks volumes about ignorance of people who are holding those views.

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The fascists made the trains run on time too.

Just because you have one positive trait doesn't excuse the murder of millions.

Communism can only be implemented by a totalitarian government. It is not possible for a communist society to allow people freedom.

In a capitalist society people work because they want what wages produce.

In a communist society, where you are not entitled to any more or any less no matter how hard you do or do not work, there are a lot of jobs that nobody would do without coercion amounting to slavery.

spat said:

The fascists made the trains run on time too.

Just because you have one positive trait doesn't excuse the murder of millions.

Communism can only be implemented by a totalitarian government. It is not possible for a communist society to allow people freedom.

In a capitalist society people work because they want what wages produce.

In a communist society, where you are not entitled to any more or any less no matter how hard you do or do not work, there are a lot of jobs that nobody would do without coercion amounting to slavery.

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If you are going to apply shared guilt standard to communists, then you have to do the same to anti-communists. Since the goal of Nazi Germany to liberate Europe from the communists coincided with our goal, are we responsible for mass murders committed by the Nazis? No one said that Communists are not without skeletons in their closet, neither are we. Equating to Nazis is what is being disputed.

Pound for pound, in the 20th century Communism killed more people than the Axis combined. By possibly an 8 to 1 margin.

BDinPutnam said:

Pound for pound, in the 20th century Communism killed more people than the Axis combined. By possibly an 8 to 1 margin.

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Bull.

Estimates vary but Mao and company killed 20-40 million Chinese. We can get into your precious friend Stalin if you want though I am not keen to engage in your sad, virulent holocaust denial vis a vis the Holodomor.

Hell, this festering pus sack of an ideology continues to kill today. There are upwards of 1 million people in camps in western China as I type these words. NK let nearly a quarter of a million people starve to death in the early years of the 2000's (to say nothing of the brutal gulags they continue to run to this day).

Sadly, it goes on and on.

As horrific as it would have been, sometimes I wonder if Truman and company should've let Patton push east when he wanted to.

Mosinitis said:

If you are going to apply shared guilt standard to communists, then you have to do the same to anti-communists. Since the goal of Nazi Germany to liberate Europe from the communists coincided with our goal, are we responsible for mass murders committed by the Nazis? No one said that Communists are not without skeletons in their closet, neither are we. Equating to Nazis is what is being disputed.

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I care not what philosophy totalitarians use to justify their actions.

Fascists, communists, theocrats, and any other flavor of totalitarian you care to come up with are the same.

They all think they are entitled to control every aspect of everyone else's lives.

Whether their justification is economic, moral, religious, practical, or something else, they think they are superior to everyone else and that entitles them to control them.

That is a very good definition for evil.

BDinPutnam said:

Estimates vary but Mao and company killed 20-40 million Chinese. We can get into your precious friend Stalin if you want though I am not keen to engage in your sad, virulent holocaust denial vis a vis the Holodomor.

Hell, this festering pus sack of an ideology continues to kill today. There are upwards of 1 million people in camps in western China as I type these words. NK let nearly a quarter of a million people starve to death in the early years of the 2000's (to say nothing of the brutal gulags they continue to run to this day).

Sadly, it goes on and on.

As horrific as it would have been, sometimes I wonder if Truman and company should've let Patton push east when he wanted to.

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You do understand that your stats come from people who lie and fabricate without blinking an eye. They have zero credibility, NONE. If Trump can be accused of bribery when it was Biden, what are the chances Stalin or Mao has for an honest assessment. If you add up the numbers they say killed by Lenin, by Stalin and the actual numbers killed in WWII and WWI and the Russian Civil War there weren't that many people living in the Soviet Union. Not to mention every census during peace time showed population growth.

Back on the ignore list.

Life is too short and too precious.

spat said:

I care not what philosophy totalitarians use to justify their actions.

Fascists, communists, theocrats, and any other flavor of totalitarian you care to come up with are the same.

They all think they are entitled to control every aspect of everyone else's lives.

Whether their justification is economic, moral, religious, practical, or something else, they think they are superior to everyone else and that entitles them to control them.

That is a very good definition for evil.

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I don't care what you care about. I am posting an accurate account of resistance in Nazi occupied Europe. Everyone can make their own judgement. That said, the Anarchists, who represent libertarian extreme always sided with the communists when they sided with anyone.

Nazi's, fascist, commie's, toss in some Buddhist and wiccans I don't care I still want to read the book.

Mosinitis said:

I don't care what you care about. I am posting an accurate account of resistance in Nazi occupied Europe. Everyone can make their own judgement. That said, the Anarchists, who represent libertarian extreme always sided with the communists when they sided with anyone.

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Totalitarians fighting totalitarians over who gets to tell everyone else how to live. That's pretty much communism vs facism in a nut shell.

It's like the bloods and the crips fighting over territory, neither are good. Just because one is evil doesn't mean the ones fighting them are any less so.

Anarchists are terrible libertarians. Anarchy in theory as a libertarian ideal falls apart the minute you realize it's unstable and it will be immediately replaced by something else. Anarchists are just too stupid to think that far. Just like the people who think communism means they won't have to work and will be provided for.

The instruments of repression are the same in all totalitarian societies, and the methods used to achieve their ends may vary in degree, but not in intent. It didn’t matter whether it was the NKVD or the Gestapo pounding on your door at 3am back then, or whether it’s the ChiCom “social credit” system or Twitter trying to destroy your life for “thoughtcrime” today; the first impulse of those with a totalitarian bent is to terrorize any opposition into silence, either self imposed or via the grave. This is nothing new, the French revolution was known as “the Terror” for a reason, and Vlad the Impaler came by his reputation honesty. Hell, Muhammad is still working his mischief on a daily basis, and the Romans had cute little custom for keeping the subjects in line that is still recognized by a major religion today. Bluntly, human beings are a nasty lot, and there hasn’t been an “ism” invented to date that doesn’t tend long term towards a totalitarian end. The US Constitution was one of the most inspired attempts to avoid that end, but it appears human nature will again prevail.

spat said:

Totalitarians fighting totalitarians over who gets to tell everyone else how to live. That's pretty much communism vs facism in a nut shell.

It's like the bloods and the crips fighting over territory, neither are good. Just because one is evil doesn't mean the ones fighting them are any less so.

Anarchists are terrible libertarians. Anarchy in theory as a libertarian ideal falls apart the minute you realize it's unstable and it will be immediately replaced by something else. Anarchists are just too stupid to think that far. Just like the people who think communism means they won't have to work and will be provided for.

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In absence of forces that would meet your standard of freedom no one really deserves any credit for winning the war or should care that the war was won.

The Communists of WW2 and of the Communists of today are actually quite different entities.

History is very easy these days to research..




Communists did in fact play a very large part in the resistance.

I still hate them, but the facts are indeed facts.

This link is only one of many that will say the same or very similar.

people need to understand the times as well as the mind set of people in the 40's, again, nothing to compare to current times.

BTW, that one Dutch girl is quite Fugly

Dutch girls? Were they dikes?

Mosinitis said:

In absence of forces that would meet your standard of freedom no one really deserves any credit for winning the war or should care that the war was won.

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Sure they get credit for defeating the Nazi's.

They were instrumental in doing so, and the world is a better place for it.

They are still terrible though.

As for us?

We were the least terrible in the bunch. But we did plenty we should feel guilty about. Internment of the citizens with Japanese ancestry is the first thing that comes to mind. There were lots of others too.

Nobody is perfect, and sometimes you need to do terrible things to make sure worse doesn't happen.

It's your ideals that matter though. Fundamentally the US has always been about freedom and communism has been about equality. Maybe facism was about productivity at the expense of both freedom and equality.

They are mutually exclusive as goals though. Once you have eliminated the gross problems in your society you will inevitably be required to reduce freedom to increase equality or vice versa.

You have to pick one, and the one you pick defines who you are.

spat said:

I care not what philosophy totalitarians use to justify their actions.

Fascists, communists, theocrats, and any other flavor of totalitarian you care to come up with are the same.

They all think they are entitled to control every aspect of everyone else's lives.

Whether their justification is economic, moral, religious, practical, or something else, they think they are superior to everyone else and that entitles them to control them.

That is a very good definition for evil.

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You forgot forum admin moderator.

Mosinitis said:

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The girl who was publically executed at 0.36 in this video has an interesting history. Her name was Masha Bruskina.

spat said:

Sure they get credit for defeating the Nazi's.

They were instrumental in doing so, and the world is a better place for it.

They are still terrible though.

As for us?

We were the least terrible in the bunch. But we did plenty we should feel guilty about. Internment of the citizens with Japanese ancestry is the first thing that comes to mind. There were lots of others too.

Nobody is perfect, and sometimes you need to do terrible things to make sure worse doesn't happen.

It's your ideals that matter though. Fundamentally the US has always been about freedom and communism has been about equality. Maybe facism was about productivity at the expense of both freedom and equality.

They are mutually exclusive as goals though. Once you have eliminated the gross problems in your society you will inevitably be required to reduce freedom to increase equality or vice versa.

You have to pick one, and the one you pick defines who you are.

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Sure we are better. Didn't do all that much during the war and creating lies and slander our allies who did.

We are not better, we are not worse, we are all people subject to all the foibles inherent to our species. Our system of governance is better, much better.
Robin

Martha Stewart

Mosinitis said:

Most of the resistance in occupied Europe was organized by the Communists. Equating Communists to Nazis and denying they did anything positive speaks volumes about ignorance of people who are holding those views.

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Can you let it go?

I’m actually 50% sure you are not a human. I put even odds to you being a Russian bot. You don’t even express annoyance at being challenged in the way a human would and you argue the same tirelessly like a bot would.

Blimey said:

Can you let it go?

I’m actually 50% sure you are not a human. I put even odds to you being a Russian bot. You don’t even express annoyance at being challenged in the way a human would and you argue the same tirelessly like a bot would.

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I stand by my statement and if it ruffles some feathers, then fuck them.

Robin said:

We are not better, we are not worse, we are all people subject to all the foibles inherent to out species. Our system of governance is better, much better.
Robin

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You are right of course.

The true believers of communism, socialism, facism, and all the rest are just dupes.

It's just the leaders that are evil (and they tend not to believe the snake oil they are peddling, except maybe the facists).