What these lawsuits to succeed need is a bunch of PC BS.
We need some low income inner city (but honest and law abiding) plaintiffs to argue that the existing permit system is inherently racist and designed to keep guns away from poor and minorities (which it is).
NYSRPA advertised for quite a while asking for People that had been denied a Licenses in NYC.
Ironically, S-7169 (that makes anyone associated with guns, ammunition, or accessories liable for their misuse) specifically states in its explanation that certain zip codes with undeserved Black and Brown Communities are where most of the violent gun crime occures and 74% of the guns used (recovered) were illegally obtained out of State.
That is the 900lb gorilla in the room that nobody will acknowledge.
Between apathy, ignorance, denial, and voters either not voting Republican or not voting at all, the Room is full of the blind who will do nothing but bitch about loosing Gun Rights even though they sent in $25. for a membership
NYSRPA, Editor of Bullet magazine
- Thread starter Carl Gottstein
- Start date
- Status
You might be right, but it isn't me. There are several long time names on this Forum that I expect reconize me; I have used FP1201 on every gunboard I ever registered on and have since 2000 when I first registered on ar15.com and falfiles.com so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out who I am.
There's a lot of outright hate, suspicion, truth and lies, and that's your Right to say or believe what you want, but remember there are Laws against Libel and Slander; the person that posted all those accusations about Tom King, another Board Member and NYSRRPA was a disgruntle NYSRPA Board member that had litigation brought against him.
It's ironic that you mention "lobbying and voting no longer matter" Well let me tell you this: since the first days of covid, the capitol building in totality has been shut off to lobbyist and visitors, the video footage you see on the live feed has only five members; the rest (if participating at all) are home in their pajamas. Tom King's Wife worked for a lobbying service hat operated in the Capitol for 45 years, and for 35 of those years she owned and employed many people: Cuomo (who's on the second floor) ordered the Sargent of Arms to DENY her and her business any access or ability to deliver messages. So, for the last year and a half OUR VOICES have been largely ignored by the Republicans who can even bend over to wipe their own asses, and the Democrats that don't give a fuck and will gleefully tell you so IF the acknowledge you at all....go on, try it, come back to tell me I'm wrong.
I've always held the "wait" let's try to settle this in the Ballot Box, or Jury Box, but given the blatant corruption, suspicious voting activities, Duplicity, and outright ignorance of the People, well the folks out West just might be right.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Yes there are, and none of the opinions people have on here would meet the requirement for libel or slander, but thanks anyway.
It's subjective and might not be worthy of litigating, however some have the means and will. It's a generalized statement, not necessarily indicative of this thread, but just like a news paper; once you publish it and its out there, getting it back is impossible and you may have to live with those words.
This wasn't a veiled threat of Libel or Slander, only the mention of the diatribe published on multiple web sites attacking NYSRPA and its Leaders.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
So Tom King has the means and will to sue anonymous people on a gun forum for having opinions that might hurt his feelings, but not the will and means to actually do something meaningful for the 2A community in NY? I say go ahead and sue. See how that publicity looks Tom.
I never said or implied that Tom King was who brought suit or sued anybody.
The mention of Libel and Slander was a reminder of thinks generally known, but often ignored....the internet does not have the anonymity many think it does.
Say what you want so long as its provable truth, but subjective statements, lies, and false accusations will get you in the end.
I do not know: What do you mean?
I do see members of different organizations attacking other pro-gun organizations though.
I mean where are you seeing all these people being held accountable for outright lies being told against others and can you point them in the direction of, say, CNN?
When did the NRA become pro 2A
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Opinions are just that and people are allowed to have and express them. Libel and slander are very hard things to sue for. It's one thing if one were to go on the news or buy a bill board and make accusations and say untrue things, it's quite another to express personal opinion on a discussion forum.
Are we done with the vailed threats @FP1201? Tom King and NYRPA have very few friends here. We didn't go to them and start this, they came here.
Possibly, perhaps that is one reason we're in the shit now.
Nope! it would seem that they can say anything they want with the impunity of retraction, but once in a while they take it up the ass...remember the Native in the face of the Highschool kit that got called out by CNN and other news sources? yea, that cost them.
Just because you say or do something then get away with it doesn't mean it won't catch up or be used against you later....look at blackfaced Northam in a 1984 Medical School photo that surfaced 35 years after the fact.
There are no veiled threats here, and your assertions that I'm Tom King or Carl Gottstein are an ignorant assumption.
Sure Carl came here, it's a free and open Board, with membership approved by Moderators under accepted conduct agreements.
but it does have friends, and before you crucify without truthful knowledge, you might want to investigate more, post YOUR findings, and YOUR editorials instead of parroting what others have speculated.
BTW: NYSRPA has at least one more friend; me!
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
You are flattering yourself, I'm not asserting you are Tom King or Carl. The NYSRPA dropped the safe act case because Scalia died. That's all I needed to see what a crock of shit that org is. Here we are years later and what do we have? A case that the supreme court mooted becuase NYC changed it's laws at the last minute? Yay!! Why don't you enlighten us as to why we should support this group. Where are YOUR findings? YOUR editorials?
You'll forgive my ignorance, I presumed @FP1201? Tom King and @CarlGottstein were refrencing me as a shill for either of those two; my apologies.
SAFE Act is 8-1/2 years old, and to date damn little of it has been overturned let alone revoked, NYSRPA had limited success in Federal Court, and IIRC scope or goa had something minor also go their way, but I digress: With a tie or loss at SCOTUS, the Law STANDS, and now has president, one that other States could easily exploit, so along with us being fucked, other Democrat States such as MD, CA, MA, CT, et.al could pass what they wanted and simple said "The Supreme Court told us it was Constitutional" and little could be done about it. The death and subsequent treatment of the Body and Case are unusual and suspicious, but no body, no crime.
If you hate NYSRPA/King so much, one could assume you're not a member and if so, why are you so damned concerned with what they do?
If you are a current member; have you reached out to anyone to ask what's going on or why things were done the way they were?
Are you one of those guys that thinks signing up and sending $25. somewhere every year is going to reinstate or keep your Gun Rights?
If you knew you were going to loose in Court; wouldn't you try for a pre-trial settlement? NYC knew it and caved at the last minute, still SCOTUS saw through this ploy and it's back in Court, so YEA!
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
My apologies for giving you that impression and making you feel that way.
I met and spoke with Tom at an Albany gun show just after the safe act had been passed. He assured me that they had hired the best 2A attorneys and were going to fight it all the way. I promptly signed up and gave my support. When Scalia died, I think it's safe to say most, if not all gun owners felt like it was over. While I understand the mind set behind the "tactical retreat" NYSRPA took at that point. It is inexcusable that it has remained a retreat. There has been no renewed effort by them to bring the case back. Even though the court is now back in our favor. Meanwhile, shortly after Scalia's death, there was a 2A case out of MA, in which the Scalialess court upheld Heller and the 2A rights of a homeless women who, without having a weapons permit, used a stun gun to defend herself. Stun guns being illegal to have in MA with out their "permit". Arguably, defeating the safe act would do more for NYC and the rest of the country, for that matter, than a case about NYC residents being able to take their pistols outside of the city.
I was a member and it was a waste of money and faith. Some things you cannot do yourself and so you employ people or an org to represent your interests. When those you trusted abuse that trust, and show no effort to address the matters you feel they should, it jades you. If their $25 dues were an insignificant contribution to a service they promised to provide, then they can choke on it. You just convinced me that they are not an organization that I should support. You just convinced me that they are worthless and just want my money. When you invest in something, you expect a return on investment.
You want to say that between Covid and Cuomo they have been locked out from lobbying? How many pro gun bills were passed in NY these past 8 1/2 years since the safe act? Here is your answer- 0. In fact, it has only gotten worse for gun owners in NY. Where is the NYSRPA?????
What do you have that would convince us that the NYSRPA should be supported?
Bigfoot
.450/400 Nitro Ex
On June 30, 2021. OP posted this.
"Greetings group! My name is Carl Gottstein and I work at New York State Riffle & Pistol Association. I wanted to join this forum to better serve NY's 2A community by better understanding the thoughts and issues that most concern fellow NY gun owners."
A week later, crickets... Meh, these things happen. But, that is not a good look for NYSRPA.
The 2A groups are really good at shooting themselves in the foot. They do it to themselves.
If Carl really wants to serve the 2A communi, ah fuck it never mind. Fuck them.
"Greetings group! My name is Carl Gottstein and I work at New York State Riffle & Pistol Association. I wanted to join this forum to better serve NY's 2A community by better understanding the thoughts and issues that most concern fellow NY gun owners."
A week later, crickets... Meh, these things happen. But, that is not a good look for NYSRPA.
The 2A groups are really good at shooting themselves in the foot. They do it to themselves.
If Carl really wants to serve the 2A communi, ah fuck it never mind. Fuck them.
Well its too bad you feel that way, but that's your opinion and choice, I hope your other investments are profitable.
There is a lot real work in Legislation done by Lobbyists, and Legislative Staff: The republicans have been royally fucked over: Their physical Offices in Albany taken,
Elections have consequences: All three levers of Control are in the hands of radical Democrats that have and are pushing through bullshit that would have had their predecessors hanging from Lamp Poles....remember "taxation without representation"? There was a War over it.
Anyway, If I convinced you, then you were sold long before I entered the conversation, and if you don't want to belong to NYSRPA, that's fine, but do find and support another Pro- Second Organization.
Oh, and will you point out what I said that "convinced me that they are worthless and just want my money"? Was it anything false?
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
There. You said it yourself. If signing up and sending $25 every year isn't going to help reinstate my rights, then why are they asking for it? And why should I do it?
I left out an answer:
"convinced me that they are worthless and just want my money"
Not my job: I am neither salesman nor shill for NYSRPA. I am a Life Member and have been involved for two decades, I have sponsored Busses to the Rallies, have been in the Legislative Office Buildings, have met with and been rejected by Assembly and Senate Members, have had suggestions taken under consideration, met and spoken with all the Board Members, seen the work done by them and the organization, heard about the calls that come in every week from people with issues ranging from questions on Safety and Training to being jammed up with their Pistol Licenses, there IS a hell of a lot more to the Organization than a Lobbying arm, and finally realized exactly why Weapons are prohibited in the Capitol!
"convinced me that they are worthless and just want my money"
Not my job: I am neither salesman nor shill for NYSRPA. I am a Life Member and have been involved for two decades, I have sponsored Busses to the Rallies, have been in the Legislative Office Buildings, have met with and been rejected by Assembly and Senate Members, have had suggestions taken under consideration, met and spoken with all the Board Members, seen the work done by them and the organization, heard about the calls that come in every week from people with issues ranging from questions on Safety and Training to being jammed up with their Pistol Licenses, there IS a hell of a lot more to the Organization than a Lobbying arm, and finally realized exactly why Weapons are prohibited in the Capitol!
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
I'm not challenging or doubting your commitment.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
It sounds like there is a unique backstory and I would love to hear it.
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
Carl is NYSRPA doing anything about Andy's new gun violence State emergency that is not a state wide emergency .. ??
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
A guy named Schultz, if I remember correctly, it has been a long while, was the only one to fight the safe act. He did it on his own and was largely ridiculed even though his legal arguments had good footing.
King acted the part of a political toady and did nothing except create a salary for himself. Maybe Mr, King is too close to NY politics and its' systemic corruption to see what is actually going on, I don't know, but either way, he has not been very effective.
Sounds like more big city bullshit to me.
Robin
King acted the part of a political toady and did nothing except create a salary for himself. Maybe Mr, King is too close to NY politics and its' systemic corruption to see what is actually going on, I don't know, but either way, he has not been very effective.
Sounds like more big city bullshit to me.
Robin
alright this has gone on way too long the OP is probably long gone, and this thread has jumped the shark.
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