Should political campaign promises be treated as a verbal conctract?

Saltwater60

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IMO yes. If I make a verbal contract with you I’m held legally liable to that. Why aren’t politicians and their campaign promises treated the same? I get there’s a process but I feel like Biden and the democrats promised a lot of stuff they knew or was very likely not to move forward to literally buy votes. A lot of money was promised to certain groups. Shouldn’t this be illegal? What should the punishment be? Banned from running for office again? Criminal charges? Financially liable?
 
Celt

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The single biggest thing we could hope for is term limits for the house and senate. Reduce senate to 2 4 year terms, and congress to 3 - 2 year terms.
 
tirwin1

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Celt said:
The single biggest thing we could hope for is term limits for the house and senate. Reduce senate to 2 4 year terms, and congress to 3 - 2 year terms.
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This only works if there is also a corresponding decrease in the size of the government/administrative state. If term limits are applied then power shifts to the administrative state as the people there will have all the institutional knowledge. The deep state would love term limits as it would supply them with a constantly changing group of people who will "need" to rely on their expertise.

It has to be a two-fer: term limits and a significant reduction in the size and scope of the federal government.
 
Blimey

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I suppose legally it would be extremely hard to say anything specific so politicians would just use even more vague language than ever.
 
Celt

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tirwin1 said:
This only works if there is also a corresponding decrease in the size of the government/administrative state. If term limits are applied then power shifts to the administrative state as the people there will have all the institutional knowledge. The deep state would love term limits as it would supply them with a constantly changing group of people who will "need" to rely on their expertise.

It has to be a two-fer: term limits and a significant reduction in the size and scope of the federal government.
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Great point, the administrative state definitely needs to be reduced, frankly there are many departments that need to be abolished entirely.
 
SomeSoldier

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Celt said:
Problem is they often say things like..

"Im going to do my best"

"Ill be working towards"

"We want"

Things that sound great but leave the door open for not succeeding.
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How about Biden saying that he doesn't want to ban all semi-automatic weapons. Then says later he wants to ban them all.
 
Celt

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SomeSoldier said:
How about Biden saying that he doesn't want to ban all semi-automatic weapons. Then says later he wants to ban them all.
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I'm with you. They LIE without remorse and say "during campaigns you say whatever it takes". They would just say "after reviewing more data and information I have changed my mind". We KNOW thats a lie, but we cant make things like that a crime or it would be bad news for all citizens.

What we need is more people getting involved in politics and paying attention, we need an honest media. As far as media goes, we may get a few honest outlets, but the machine is sooo big with the richest people in the world contolling it that I dont think we will ever get an unbiased media at large again. Really, I cant imagine a future society allowing us little peons to have as much freedom as we have had.
 
SomeSoldier

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Celt said:
I'm with you. They LIE without remorse and say "during campaigns you say whatever it takes". They would just say "after reviewing more data and information I have changed my mind". We KNOW thats a lie, but we cant make things like that a crime or it would be bad news for all citizens.

What we need is more people getting involved in politics and paying attention, we need an honest media. As far as media goes, we may get a few honest outlets, but the machine is sooo big with the richest people in the world contolling it that I dont think we will ever get an unbiased media at large again. Really, I cant imagine a future society allowing us little peons to have as much freedom as we have had.
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What we need is a recall system for every level of elected and appointed government official.
 
Chevusa

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Sounds good but it ends there.

In all fairness people say things then get into office and have access to information they didn’t have before. That changes things.

This isn’t the case every time but is a factor.
 
Saltwater60

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Celt said:
Problem is they often say things like..

"Im going to do my best"

"Ill be working towards"

"We want"

Things that sound great but leave the door open for not succeeding.
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I don’t think so. Biden and the demonrats said vote for me and I’ll do x,y,z.
 
Saltwater60

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Blimey said:
I suppose legally it would be extremely hard to say anything specific so politicians would just use even more vague language than ever.
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But then it would be fine with me honestly. If they did what you’re saying then they wouldn’t be promising people things for thier vote and it doesn’t constitute a verbal contract.
If we agree to do work and I said I’ll do it for around $500 sometime in May you wouldn’t expect me there may 1st for $500 on the nose then right?
 
Saltwater60

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Celt said:
I'm with you. They LIE without remorse and say "during campaigns you say whatever it takes". They would just say "after reviewing more data and information I have changed my mind". We KNOW thats a lie, but we cant make things like that a crime or it would be bad news for all citizens.

What we need is more people getting involved in politics and paying attention, we need an honest media. As far as media goes, we may get a few honest outlets, but the machine is sooo big with the richest people in the world contolling it that I dont think we will ever get an unbiased media at large again. Really, I cant imagine a future society allowing us little peons to have as much freedom as we have had.
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Why would holding people accountable to their verbal contracts be a bad thing? It’s only a problem because it’s a quid pro quote thing. The politicians say if you vote for me I’ll do this and if you vote for them then you’ve completed the contract and legally they have to do what they promised.
Normal citizens if they lie then they just lie. If they agree to do something for something in return then it is a verbal contract and you can take legal action of varying degrees.
 
Saltwater60

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Chevusa said:
Sounds good but it ends there.

In all fairness people say things then get into office and have access to information they didn’t have before. That changes things.

This isn’t the case every time but is a factor.
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I agree it’s a factor and they can’t do it alone but my point is if the democrats didn’t make all these promises I don’t think they would be in charge right now so their lies literally are changing this country, laws, economics. Their lies have huge consequences that ripple through the world.
I’m questioning why we allow it and accept it? I landscape as a side job and what I agree to do verbally or in writing is a contract. I can’t just walk away because it happens all the time right? Contractors break contracts all the time. Also a customer can’t just not pay me because it happens all the time.
 
Michael

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In order to make them liable and hold them accountable, you would have to demonstrate that they are mentally sound enough. I don't think that would be possible with most politicians.
 
spat

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You can't even hold the government to an actual notarized and filed written contract.

Trying to hold politicians to a verbal one is just tilting at windmills.


But you asked if we *should* be able to, and absolutely, we should.

I'll settle to just holding them to the original contract the government made with the people (the constitution). Violations of that should result in jail time.

Yep, if you voted for or signed a law, and it is later declared unconstitutional, I think you should face criminal charges for violating everyone's rights. They should also be personally civilly liable for damages.
 
FP1201

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semantics, word-games, convoluted meanings, mis-direction, these are all utilized: "I'm not going to take your gun" Well of course not, but I am going to change the Law so my henchmen can lawfully come and take them when you fail to turn them in.
 
Grimscale

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If a politician's statement is binding, say as a contract, then doesn't that fall under voter fraud laws?

sounds a lot like vote buying to me.

"Vote for me and there will be no more Orange Man Bad".

Seemed to work out pretty well. so maybe Biden, and those who voted for him, should be arrested.
 
Jmac00

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actually, We The People, do hold them to a verbal contract, We call them elections.

The problem is, WE THE PEOPLE have very little say in how these Politian's perform the job we hired them for, while they're office.
 
Saltwater60

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Jmac00 said:
actually, We The People, do hold them to a verbal contract, We call them elections.

The problem is, WE THE PEOPLE have very little say in how these Politian's perform the job we hired them for, while they're office.
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Totally agree with that except my point/question is a bit different. My point is they use the lies to get elected and then don’t follow through. By the next election cycle it’s too late and the damage or whatever is already done. I feel they should be punished or not allowed on the platform if they have broken their contract with the people.
My point is if Biden and the democrats didn’t promise to give people tons of money I do t think Trump would be out of office. Their promises are a contract and they shifted the entire usa farther left. They won’t and can’t keep their promises and there has to be consequences other than another election in 2022 and 2024. The student loan forgiveness and stimulus was a huge deciding factor IMO. And of course Biden have you $2,000 right?? I mean how many times have we heard that flat out lie already?
 
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