ar15 pistol.. I want one...I got one!!!! pics in original post
- Thread starter RoyP
- Start date
ryguy
9mm
I have one, and have used it for deer hunting the past 3 years. The only real downside is the fixed magazine, however it can be easily reversed if you ever move out of NY. I would recommend buying a complete upper, and stripped lower. register the lower as a pistol and build it to your liking. As far options, what is your budget? go with quality components and you will be fine. I highly recommend BCM, SOL, Noveske, LMT, DD
for reliability reasons, I would not go below 10.5". I run a 11.5" BCM
for reliability reasons, I would not go below 10.5". I run a 11.5" BCM
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ryguy
9mm
Im sure some keyboard warriors will get upset, but I use a version of the AR maglock. This allows you to break the gun down and remove the magazine. It's all on your level of comfort. Do your own research and pick a system that you deem suitable.
Uzi
.308 Win
There are no cons. 5.56 in pstol configuration isn't
I don't think that'll get anyone upset. The maglock is only an inconvenient way to detach the magazine and is in no fashion a legal option or alternative in NYS.
I don't think that'll get anyone upset. The maglock is only an inconvenient way to detach the magazine and is in no fashion a legal option or alternative in NYS.
@BulletguyNick sells them at good prices and is a forum sponsor.
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In stock and ready for sale now, AR Pistols and Rifles! We are also stocked up on hunting ammo, Reloading Components, AR Parts, and Anderson Receivers. Pistols **5.56 Nato, 1/7 Twist** **7.5 Inch M4 Profile Barrel** **7 Inch MLok Rail** **Pistol Length Gas System** **Stainless Steel Hammer &...
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BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Wow that's a beaut, Jem.
I have it as well. Simple and effective. No issues
Currently wasting my time in the woods with a 12.5" pistol in .450bushmaster
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Pistols and 5.56 do not belong together.
They might look cool but they are pretty much a prop. They make even less sense than a 308 pistol. No speed, lots of noise, and obviously poor performance.
If you need or want a pistol get it in a round designed for a pistol and not a rifle.
If you want a rifle round I will look into the thumpers or if a poupular rifle round is desired, he best compromise of the popular rounds is going to be the 6.8 with no less than 12", 85-95gr bullets and 1680 loads.
But even actual pistol rounds like the 9x25 dillon with a tad extra freebore will be the equivalent to a hot 357 magnum that with as little as 9 to 11 inches will be a much better hunting round than the tipical rifle round.
Anothe one to deriously consider is the 7.62x39 to be reloaded with hard brass. This can be reloaded with 308 bullets with the appropriate mandrel and will be superior since it can be pumped safely to 56-58k psi with quality hard brass and a bolt that can take the heat. I suggest arp or young manufacturing bolts that are much stronger by design.
5.56 in a pistol is cool for some but a waste in terms of internal and external ballistics.
This is not a random and personal opinion, it is the reality of physics.
I mean but 12.5" ar pistols are the same thing as a 12.5" SBR and pretty sure those are popular with lots of professionals and are perfectly capable and suited to putting people down with in reason to their rolls
And if you want to be technical, I know you do,
5.56 was designed around a 20" barrel so anything under that based on your logic should be useless
5.56 was designed around a 20" barrel so anything under that based on your logic should be useless
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
"Designed around" and "optimal for" are not synonyms.
Except that the optimal performance for 5.55 comes from a 20" barrel.
Unlike many calibers (and similar to others) 5.56 is very much dependent on barrel length to achieve the performance that people want. So yes if you are going for optimal 5.56 performance you will need a 20" barrel.
Hell even the newer military ammo (XM193A1? ) which is designed to try and get the same performance out of a shorter (14.5" ?) barrel, doesnt really match the original loading from a 20" barrel but is at the upper most levels for pressure to be safe and erodes the throat and barrel super fast
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
IIRC 20" over 16" bumps FPS by the range of 150 or something. Relevant, but not massively so. I would guess without bothering to look it up taking 3.5" off the 16" it's still got pretty good energy behind the round. Suboptimal but still lots of energy. The pistol in the pic above looks cool, especially for NY.
ryguy
9mm
Completely agree with you, I’m out and about so can’t give more info... but plenty of the police agencies I work with use them. People on NYgunforum with high post count will always speak like they are the big dick of the law though... let em
I mean to be fair @meketrefe does know what hes talking about when it comes to ballistics, and I personally wouldn't pick up a 7" 5.56 other than to piss people off, or even a 10.5-14.5" for anything other than people
Agree, Meke knows what he's talking about. I had an 8" 556, pretty useless, loud as hell, and would blind you after firing. Mines at 10.5 right now although I am considering going 12.5, or even a 12.5 6.8. No doubt though a 10.5 with the right load is a devastating short range weapon against 2 legged critters.
ryguy
9mm
Common knowledge anything under 10.5” isn’t an option
I'd say (from what I've read from those who do things for a profession) 10.5 is the shortest for 5.56 but 11.5/12.5 seem to be the bees knees for SBR and there fore same for a pistol. 14.5 is better but if you already know the muzzle device you want to use. Might as well P&W it and make it a rifle rifle..
I want to make a colt commando clone. And i want a 7.5" (both 5.56) for the lulz (commando would be a good lenght but subpar handguards and iron sight set up)
I do also agree, anything in the thumper catagory (.450bm, .458socom, .50b) is a fun option but even with double my 12.5" 450 is loud AF, 10 round 5.56mag i can jam 4 in it plus 1 in the pipe.. lot of recoil, its wonderful but expensive compared to 5.56
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Are 5.56 ballistics from a short barrel the same as one from a 20 inch barrel? No. Not supposed to be. But still good enough to get the job done. Everything is a compromise. A 20 inch barrel outfitted with a long range scope that burns all of its powder in the barrel with the bullet going At about 3000 FPS is better but not ideal inside the home around tight corners.
AR pistols/SBR’s in 5.56 are used for short ranges. If using for ranges above what it’s designed for like for general combat at engagements over 150 yards, then yes, it’s the wrong platform since the bullet velocities will drop below 2000 FPS and pinhole just like a pistol round will. If used for inside the home for example, it’s more than adequate despite what some say. The bullet will be going well above 2000 FPS and will ruin someone’s day. Entry teams around the world have used the short barreled platform with great success.
For maximum ballistics, a bonded hollow point should be used. A bonded hollow point expanding at over 2000 FPS will work better than a bullet that depends on speed for fragmentation.
Now with all that said, it really doesn’t make much sense to use a fixed mag for home defense. The compromise thing comes into play again. Is a handier rifle that cannot be reloaded quickly or have the inability to have the magazine dropped to clear a malfunction better than a 16 inch barreled featureless rifle? No. You’ll be sacrificing firepower for handiness. For hunting or as a range toy it may well be. But for home defense, the handier package doesn’t trump a longer rifle that works as designed.
AR pistols/SBR’s in 5.56 are used for short ranges. If using for ranges above what it’s designed for like for general combat at engagements over 150 yards, then yes, it’s the wrong platform since the bullet velocities will drop below 2000 FPS and pinhole just like a pistol round will. If used for inside the home for example, it’s more than adequate despite what some say. The bullet will be going well above 2000 FPS and will ruin someone’s day. Entry teams around the world have used the short barreled platform with great success.
For maximum ballistics, a bonded hollow point should be used. A bonded hollow point expanding at over 2000 FPS will work better than a bullet that depends on speed for fragmentation.
Now with all that said, it really doesn’t make much sense to use a fixed mag for home defense. The compromise thing comes into play again. Is a handier rifle that cannot be reloaded quickly or have the inability to have the magazine dropped to clear a malfunction better than a 16 inch barreled featureless rifle? No. You’ll be sacrificing firepower for handiness. For hunting or as a range toy it may well be. But for home defense, the handier package doesn’t trump a longer rifle that works as designed.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
A lot of folks find out the hard way so hopefully you didn't spend too much on it.
That is why we should try to separate coolness from insanity.
When I said the 5.56 and pistols do not go together I try to explain why. We have experienced this first hand and over the years see more folks
bored and pissed off for having gone that route after the coolness and short tacticool infatuation period has subsided.
Like you said they are unbearably loud, even more than the 308 with a 12" barrel. It is a really a bad decision ballistically talking and it is not
because we say it but because of simple physics.
Most 223 loads are optimized for 20+ inch barrels giving the best possible performance at 24" in a bolt action. With extra freebore and carefully reloading one can do wonders up to 26" and varmint barrels but in reality there is little point in going over 24" and a 20"-22" bolt rifle will produce great speeds in a much more manageable package.
A gas gun is going to loose between 150-250fps on average so ballistics by the inch is not that accurate. Also because it depends on the load type/batch year, temperature out side and in the barrel, bore, rifling, etc.... So many variables.
The performance is dictated by the bore, bore to volume ratio and legth of the round. In this case we are limited by the AR15 from factor
so in order to increase the ratio we have to increase the bore so we can decrease the lenght and in order to increase the power we have
to increase the volume of the case that means larger diameter in the case since, again we cannot go longer.
So, in ballistics, like many other things in physics and the world, it is always a world of tradeoffs of some sort and keep in mind that wtih
a small 22 bullet there is no much room for tradeoffs.
I read somewhere hunting so lets separate this from self defense and in hunting hard barrier penetration and other attributes are not critical.
Self Defense
A typical round like the M193 or M855 lake city (or Nato equivalent) is going to be between 400 to 500 speed slower in a 10" vs. a 16.5" standard M4 type service barrel.
Of any barrel, even a 5" barrel is going to hurt someone on the exit end but lets use our heads for a second here. If armies are looking into new solutions for a round that is already marginally performing with the standard 16" barrel what are we doing to ourselves going 3, 4, 6 or even shorter? We are basically screwing ourselves.
With all this said the latest iterations of the service round with the M855A1 and MK318 have been optimized to produce decent performance in
16" barrels. One is going to loose effective range with a 14.5" barrel and essentially anything smaller will seriously cripple the effective range
for optimal terminal performance including both barrier and wounding potential.
Perhaps one round that would be better for this type of scenario is the Black hills 77gr TMK that shows great fragmentation even at slower speeds and it doesn't' seem to loose so much. This one still performs better than the blackout out of a 11" barrel in terms of terminal effectiveness but again, you are trading off too much given the round design.
In self defense the key is speed (for both penetration and energy transfer) and in the 22 because of the bore there is no much possibility
for trade-off with momentum but the 77gr seems to give a bit more benefit than lets say a 55gr that will be totally pussified at a distance.
When I say terminal performance we are talking about 22 to 2300 fps at impact and anything slower than that in any caliber that is 30 caliber or smaller is going to also impact the wounding potential that is a huge hindrance for the caliber. Can still kill? you bet, but the point is you are going to be pretty shorthanded.
I would say one ideal size for an AR barrel is 18" carbine for a perfect balance between speed and compactness. Actually with a short stock
and short brake is going to be as compact as 16" with a larger brake and even as compact as shorter SBRs I have seen fitted with suppressors and
other exotic devices. I would say at a minimum I would be looking at a 16" barre, mid port (never carbine) and a recessed device for those who need it for law enforcement and work. That way you have a super compact carbine and you are not crippling a round that is already stretched to its limits and on top will be quieter and easier to shoot.
I one is into short barrels the 5.7FN is the ticket as it gives pretty similar speeds with much less recoil, concusion and 2 or 3 times the firepower for the same weight. That is why this round was designed for so one doesn't burn so much powder outside the barrel with the consequent noise, heat and fireworks associated with it.
HUNTING
In, hunting momentum, quick energy transfer and broad wounding is more important than injury since the idea is to dispatch the animal
as soon as possible. It is not about neutralizing threats, it is about ending the animals life ASAP.
If a 5.56 pistol makes little sense as defensive pistol, it makes even less sense in hunting. Again if one likes the tacticoolness and can get close enough to a chuck then that is one thing but other than that, any deer, hogs, etc... will not be a good idea for this round.
An it is not because someone could not make it work but because it is a horrible choice for any sort of ethical hunting.
A barrel and a bolt and a hand full of brass + dies are cheap enough so we can go hunting with a round that is more appropriate for
game animals. We owe that to them for their gift of food, a quick, clean humane kill.
Many know the benefits of the thumpers for hunting and how well they suit shorter barrels.
The 35 gunner was also developed from scratch with this in mind.
Most service rounds are less than ideal for this and even if you considered a 308 winchester pistol, rethink your choice and
a 6.8spc firecracker or even a reload with 7.62x39 will do the same or better with less heat, noise and concussion.
IMO the way to go is an actual pistol caliber or a thumper but if you want an inexpensive round this a great article from Zak Smith
on the modern 7.62x39 possibilities, that again, you can reload with 308 bullets.
7.62x39: Improving the Military Standard
demigodllc.com
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Are you telling us that a 50 gr to 55 gr going at about 2500 to 2700 FPS is not effective in a body at CQB distances?
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