Army to Seek Prototypes for M4/M249 SAW Replacements in Early 2019

[GOYABEAN]

Army to Seek Prototypes for M4/M249 SAW Replacements in Early 2019
The Army has announced that it plans to give gunmakers the opportunity to build 6.8mm prototypes for the service's effort to replace its M249 squad automatic weapon and M4/M4A1 carbine.

The release date of the much-anticipated Prototype Opportunity Notice, or PON, for the Next Generation Squad Weapon program "is currently estimated to be January 2019," according to a Dec. 17 update to the service's draft PON, which outlines changes made after an industry day held Nov. 14 at Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yawn. Every day there is a different article on what the Army wants. Yesterday it was 6.8. Today it's .308. Tomorrow it's something else. In the past 2 years, the Army has said it wants 10 different things.

 

[oc shooter]

Ho hum son of a gun

 

[togmaster]

Let them pick something. I'm itching to do another build anyway.

 

[Robin]

If they need something in flint I'm going to volunteer my services gratis.
Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

If they need something in flint I'm going to volunteer my services gratis.
Robin

You'd turn one of your beauties over to a GI?
That'd he a crying shame. Soliders need ugly guns so it's not a problem when they do ugly things to em.

 

[Podmonkey]

Looks like the new round under development is a 6.8. I really wish they had put more thought into this. If the come out with a new round that dosen't also replace the 7.62x51 it will be retarded.
But I shouldn't be surprised, ordinance procurement has always been completely dicked up in this country.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Looks like the new round under development is a 6.8. I really wish they had put more thought into this. If the come out with a new round that dosen't also replace the 7.62x51 it will be retarded.
But I shouldn't be surprised, ordinance procurement has always been completely dicked up in this country.

You know how some people here love the .45 ACP even though it has some limitations?

Well some generals feel the same way about the 6.8 and will will fully ignore it's limitations at distance. They just want it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

They are all over the place. A 6.8 will have the same penetration issues as a 5.56 on armor at distance yet this seems to be their drive for replacing the 5.56.

 

[holdover]

Yawn. Every day there is a different article on what the Army wants. Yesterday it was 6.8. Today it's .308. Tomorrow it's something else. In the past 2 years, the Army has said it wants 10 different things.

That's the thing, They want an all round general purpose round capable of everything. Like the F-35. It does everything , only not as good as a purpose designed aircraft.

It has to be mission specific, multiple uppers in a heavier caliber is what they need.

I heard some talk of a new rifle with higher chamber pressures doubling or tripling the speed the round .

 

[ProgSpear]

[QUOTE="holdover, post: 475444, member: 83"
It has to be mission specific, multiple uppers in a heavier caliber is what they need.
[/QUOTE]

why no talk of .224 Valkerie?

 

[Podmonkey]

That's the thing, They want an all round general purpose round capable of everything. Like the F-35. It does everything , only not as good as a purpose designed aircraft.

It has to be mission specific, multiple uppers in a heavier caliber is what they need.

I heard some talk of a new rifle with higher chamber pressures doubling or tripling the speed the round .

I don't think it would be too difficult to develop a round that is able to replace both the 5.56x45 and 7.62x51. However the bullet would need to be long, skinny and heavy for caliber so we can launch it somewhat slowly but have keep its energy for a long way for range. And I don't think the 6.8 gets us there.

 

[holdover]

The pentagon is facing the problem of facing quality body armor. They do need a new round/rifle that can perform well against good body armor.

While the service still hasn't set official requirements for the system, the NGSAR will weigh less, shoot farther, and pack more punch than the service's existing infantry weapons, Norman told Task & Purpose. And more importantly, the platform will incorporate a chamber pressure superior to the current system in soldiers' arsenals to ensure that the rounds can still blast through enhanced enemy body armor at up to 600 meters.

The goal, as Norman put it, is to equip infantry soldiers with an automatic rifle "that fires a small bullet at the pressure equivalent to what a tank would fire."

"The chamber pressure for the standard assault rifle is around 45 KSI [kilopound per square inch], but we're looking for between 60 and 80 KSI … the chamber pressure when an M1 Abrams tank fires is on that order," Gordon told Task & Purpose. "We're looking to reach out around 600 meters and have lethal effects even if the target is protected by body armor."


The Army says its next-generation assault rifle will pack a punch like a tank's main gun

 

[holdover]

Assuming they can, I would imagine that fire on burst or full auto would present the same problems They faced with the M14 .

 

[Podmonkey]

Yeah well then Army thought they could replace all their infantry weapons with the M14 too.
When it comes to weapon R&D the Army talks out of it's ass.

 

[holdover]

There is no real good ""do it all"" solution . The best the Army can do is to have mission specific variations on the uppers . Long range , medium range , short range urban .
Body armor just complicates things to a whole different level. Solid steel AP may be the cheapest way to go .

The high velocity rounds they're talking about are going to be a problem unless they can reduce the recoil enough .

 

[Podmonkey]

There is no real good ""do it all"" solution . The best the Army can do is to have mission specific variations on the uppers . Long range , medium range , short range urban .
Body armor just complicates things to a whole different level. Solid steel AP may be the cheapest way to go .

The high velocity rounds they're talking about are going to be a problem unless they can reduce the recoil enough .

I'll say it again, a super slippery, heavy 6mm projectil launched at a relatively moderate velocity (around 2500-2600fps) relying on an extremely high ballistic coefficient to retain velocity at long range while not generating too much recoil for effective automatic fire from light carbines I believe could effectively replace both the 5.56 and 7.62 cartridges. Certainly a variety of loadings could be developed for various specific roles. Cartridges like the .338 Lapua Magnum or the recently SOCOM adopted .300 Norma Magnum can handle extreme range precision tasks.

 

[holdover]

Are you confident it can punch a hole in a vest at 250 -300 meters?

 

[Acer-m14]

every one is wearing armor .. how about head shot or nut shots at long range training instead ..

 

[Podmonkey]

Are you confident it can punch a hole in a vest at 250 -300 meters?

I don't think that would be difficult for a sleek, pointy and heavy projectile.

 

[Podmonkey]

every one is wearing armor .. how about head shot or nut shots at long range training instead ..

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Are you confident it can punch a hole in a vest at 250 -300 meters?

This will be an issue.

Our major future adversary China will be fielding body armor that we will have to deal with.

 

[holdover]

I don't think that would be difficult for a sleek, pointy and heavy projectile.

I just don't know if its do-able without the extra velocity. If you can punch it up to 3800FPS It might work.

 

[holdover]

every one is wearing armor .. how about head shot or nut shots at long range training instead ..

Or for females it would a be a crack shot. Nut shot doctrine would surely demoralize the enemy . Until they came up with the Kevlar cup

 

[Acer-m14]

no matter what the cal .. its all down to the speed of it .. .. you have to have that speed at the target distance ..

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Let's just skip all the nonsense and go right to something like a small diameter high speed tungsten or depleted uranium penetrating round.

 

[Acer-m14]

Let's just skip all the nonsense and go right to something like a small diameter high speed tungsten or depleted uranium penetrating round.

.17 hmr in diamond

 

[Podmonkey]

I just don't know if its do-able without the extra velocity. If you can punch it up to 3800FPS It might work.

That is an inflated velocity. No way that would produce a controllable infantry carbine.
A heavy tungsten cored, or tipped, projectile should manage decent armor penetration even at more modest velocities. Either that or just slave a .50 BMG armed drone to each soldier.

 

[Podmonkey]

Or for females it would a be a crack shot. Nut shot doctrine would surely demoralize the enemy . Until they came up with the Kevlar cup

K-Pots could just barely stop a 9mm NATO y'know.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Armor is armor. It is what it is. Even a 30.06 will not penetrate it at 300 to 500 yards since it's going at less than 2500 fps.

You need speeds upwards in the 3000 plus fps to penetrate armor.