Bolt action 22 is a semi-auto rifle in NY?

[Slacker43]

An FFL and Broome County Sheriff both believe that a CZ 457 bolt action 22 is considered a semi-auto and requires a license to take possession. Help me understand this. I cannot find a definition of a semi-auto rifle in any nys law.

 

[FP1201]

Who is the FFL and why not use another one?

 

[Slacker43]

This is not me. I am on an FFL in PA. Said guy had the gun sent to his normal FFL in ny. I just have to make sure that if I wind up doing a transfer that everything is above board. I cannot see how a bolt gun can in any way be considered a semi.

While I would like to do it just because I think the NY law is bullshit I cannot break federal law on the owners FFL.

 

[FP1201]

County Sheriff has nothing do with the transfer so long as its lawful.
There are definitions are listed, however any FFL should clearly and easily know what a "Semi-automatic" is and just as easily do an internet search for the specifics of a CZ rifle.

 

[Slacker43]

I agree completely. I was just trying to cover my ass because I am a NY resident and I know the bullshit they pull.

 

[togmaster]

CZ 457 American - CZ-USA

Styled for the American shooter, this model has a high, flat comb and is meant to be scoped.

cz-usa.com

 

[camper4lyfe]

The FFL and sheriff are both high

 

[Saltwater60]

A bolt action rifle is not a semi automatic rifle. It’s cut and dry, plain and simple.
Ask them why bolt action AR-15’s are allowed to be sold to this day with all evil features because it’s happening.
Certainly doesn’t meet the definition of semi automatic.

Definition: semiautomatic rifle from 18 USC § 921(a)(28) | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[cgrutt]

Semi automatic is defined in NY PL 265.00.21:

"Semiautomatic" means any repeating rifle, shotgun or pistol,
regardless of barrel or overall length, which utilizes a portion of the
energy of a firing cartridge or shell to extract the fired cartridge
case or spent shell and chamber the next round, and which requires a
separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge or shell.

 

[livingston]

The CZ 457 lineup of bolt-action rimfire rifles has a dedicated cadre of fans. Spend anytime behind one on the match line or in the squirrel woods, and it’s easy to see why. For those in the know, CZ remains the unquestioned best value in rimfire shooting. Simply put: You just get more for your money with CZ. To fully understand why, it’s best to consider the history.

CZ 457: The Rimfire World's Darling

The CZ 457 is a switch-barrel bolt-action rifles, known among rimfire shooters for its excellent accuracy, value and versatility.

gundigest.com

 

[Slacker43]

Thanks everyone. After i read a few of the comments i figured i was correct all along. I dug around to see if ny did anything more stupid than normal. When I found nothing I gave my friends ffl in ny a call. In less than 2 minutes the guy admitted he never looked at the gun nor looked it up on line. He then just said that the guy could go and pick it up. His reasoning was based on nothing. He made this guy jump through hoops all day and it didn't have to be that way. It really pissed me off that this guy was so worried about ny coming down on him that he went over the top to make a guys purchase harder than necessary. FFL's should be trying to help their customers and not nys.

I do agree that these cz's are awesome. I've got one in a manor stock that we shoot 200-300 yards at eggs for fun. Great gun for the money.

 

[meketrefe]

bolt actions may be considered full automatic for 1 shot bursts between reloads

 

[MuttCat]

Yeesh. Total chaos.

 

[camper4lyfe]

Thanks everyone. After i read a few of the comments i figured i was correct all along. I dug around to see if ny did anything more stupid than normal. When I found nothing I gave my friends ffl in ny a call. In less than 2 minutes the guy admitted he never looked at the gun nor looked it up on line. He then just said that the guy could go and pick it up. His reasoning was based on nothing. He made this guy jump through hoops all day and it didn't have to be that way. It really pissed me off that this guy was so worried about ny coming down on him that he went over the top to make a guys purchase harder than necessary. FFL's should be trying to help their customers and not nys.

I do agree that these cz's are awesome. I've got one in a manor stock that we shoot 200-300 yards at eggs for fun. Great gun for the money.

NY has made it so hard for FFLs that they have to make sure their Is are dotted and Ts are crossed or their livelihood is destroyed. That said, he was a tool for not researching the firearm before answer.

 

[Parzival]

Why not just buy the gun in PA?

 

[cgrutt]

Still trying to figure out how Sheriff came into equation...

 

[Acer-m14]

FFL's should be trying to help their customers and not nys.

and LEO's too .. if you catch my drift .. i have asked 3 LEO's so far .. can i open carry a bb gun pistol .. crickets ...

don't they know the laws ? lol

 

[Saltwater60]

Still trying to figure out how Sheriff came into equation...

Still trying to figure out how anyone with half a brain could think a bolt action firearm is semiauto?

 

[cgrutt]

Still trying to figure out how anyone with half a brain could think a bolt action firearm is semiauto?

Yeah, well, not sure I'm buying that was actually the case... you know, interwebz lore and all...

 

[Slacker43]

Yeah, well, not sure I'm buying that was actually the case... you know, interwebz lore and all...

This is 100% legit. The ffl never opened the box. Saw rifle assumed permit. The guy who bought the gun lives in pa and ny. My ffl is a class 3 manufacturer. We don't make it practice to do transfers. I was going to pick it up and do the transfer for the guy but figured I'd call the ffl.

The buyer went to the sheriff's to get an answer. We all know that is not the way to go. I reminded him that.

Talked to a family member last night from up around Lake Ontario and he had no idea about the semi permit. Most have no idea what's going on. We are in a bubble here of educated people who are paying attention. That is not the norm.

 

[cgrutt]

This is 100% legit. The ffl never opened the box. Saw rifle assumed permit. The guy who bought the gun lives in pa and ny. My ffl is a class 3 manufacturer. We don't make it practice to do transfers. I was going to pick it up and do the transfer for the guy but figured I'd call the ffl.

The buyer went to the sheriff's to get an answer. We all know that is not the way to go. I reminded him that.

Talked to a family member last night from up around Lake Ontario and he had no idea about the semi permit. Most have no idea what's going on. We are in a bubble here of educated people who are paying attention. That is not the norm.

I find it hard to believe a Sherrif stated a bolt action is a semi automatic, which is basically what was stated in OP. I can see if they mistakenly thought the particular gun in question was semi auto and therefore stated incorrectly that it required a permit under new law not realizing it was in fact a bolt action but not bolt action is a semi automatic. Not doubting that the ffl didn't even bother to look.

 

[Saltwater60]

I find it hard to believe a Sherrif stated a bolt action is a semi automatic, which is basically what was stated in OP. I can see if they mistakenly thought the particular gun in question was semi auto and therefore stated incorrectly that it required a permit under new law not realizing it was in fact a bolt action but not bolt action is a semi automatic. Not doubting that the ffl didn't even bother to look.

Sounds like the FFL thought it was a semi auto by name and manufacturer alone and never viewed the rifle to see that it was a bolt action. If that’s the case it makes sense since he probably called the sheriff(aka the licensing officer) and asked about a semiauto rifle transfer. Sheriff said you need a permit for that now.
OP thanks for the clarification on the FFLs mistake since that makes sense.

 

[spat]

Still trying to figure out how anyone with half a brain could think a bolt action firearm is semiauto?

I think you identified the reason in the first half of the sentence.

 

[Slacker43]

I find it hard to believe a Sherrif stated a bolt action is a semi automatic, which is basically what was stated in OP. I can see if they mistakenly thought the particular gun in question was semi auto and therefore stated incorrectly that it required a permit under new law not realizing it was in fact a bolt action but not bolt action is a semi automatic. Not doubting that the ffl didn't even bother to look.

The Sheriff did not put ANY effort into a solution. FFL says it needs a permit he must be right. You're giving law enforcement too much credit.

 

[CaliberPlus]

Ok, FFL here, I make no pretensions of knowing all makes and models A quick Google search tells me action on a long gun. That is the easy part. Now some of them being made compliant is another topic.......

 

[Slacker43]

Sorry if I put this in the wrong place originally. I was looking for legal knowledge on this topic and not just gun talk.

 

[LibertyWins]

Talked to a family member last night from up around Lake Ontario and he had no idea about the semi permit. Most have no idea what's going on. We are in a bubble here of educated people who are paying attention. That is not the norm.

I've also talked to multiple people who have no idea about the new semi-auto permit or any of the other new laws, many just don't pay attention I guess.

Talked to a guy yesterday who had no idea about the semi-auto permit, he just finished a new semi-auto AR build too... he had no problem getting a lower from a local FFL, the rest of the parts shipped to his door. He didn't even believe me that he technically just broke the law, I had to show him the new law online. He didn't care and nor should anyone.

Obviously anyone can still build a semi-auto without issue. Who's to say a new lower won't be used for a bolt action build?

 

[Saltwater60]

I

I've also talked to multiple people who have no idea about the new semi-auto permit or any of the other new laws, many just don't pay attention I guess.

Talked to a guy yesterday who had no idea about the semi-auto permit, he just finished a new semi-auto AR build too... he had no problem getting a lower from a local FFL, the rest of the parts shipped to his door. He didn't even believe me that he technically just broke the law, I had to show him the new law online. He didn't care and nor should anyone.

Obviously anyone can still build a semi-auto without issue. Who's to say a new lower won't be used for a bolt action build?

I just found out today how my county is handling the semiauto permit. I have to say I didn’t put much effort into it because I bought everything I needed for the near future before it kicked in.

 

[LibertyWins]

I

I just found out today how my county is handling the semiauto permit. I have to say I didn’t put much effort into it because I bought everything I needed for the near future before it kicked in.

Same. I bought 6 lowers and almost 5000 rounds of various calibers to add to what I already had prior to September in preparation. But it's nice to know you can still buy/transfer lowers, even though some big box stores stopped selling them for now.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

This is 100% legit. The ffl never opened the box. Saw rifle assumed permit. The guy who bought the gun lives in pa and ny. My ffl is a class 3 manufacturer. We don't make it practice to do transfers. I was going to pick it up and do the transfer for the guy but figured I'd call the ffl.

The buyer went to the sheriff's to get an answer. We all know that is not the way to go. I reminded him that.

Talked to a family member last night from up around Lake Ontario and he had no idea about the semi permit. Most have no idea what's going on. We are in a bubble here of educated people who are paying attention. That is not the norm.

Broome County permit office called me and told me to stop buying handguns from NY permit holders because it is against the law. When I told the person it is not law , they said well it is not law but NYSP recommends NY pistol permit holders to have a NY dealer sell the guns. I told them I do not work for NYSP nor is my business in NY. I told them I will continue to buy handguns from NY state residents and they cannot do anything about it. NY makes the laws so confusing, no one can understand them.