Despite revitalization efforts, people are still leaving Upstate New York

[Madmallard]

Upstate New Yorkers continue to head for the exits.

And in few places have they been leaving faster over the past seven years than Broome, Chemung, and Tioga counties — at an average rate of 84 each month in Broome, 39 per month in Chemung and 29 each month in Tioga.

https://www.pressconnects.com/story...w-york-population-declining-census/721456002/

 

[livingston]

Dec. 19, 2014

On Wednesday, around noontime, during a year-end cabinet meeting called by Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York, officials in his administration announced that they had decided not to allow hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, anywhere in the state.

Despite the potential economic benefits of drilling for natural gas, the governor’s environmental commissioner, Joe Martens, and his health commissioner, Dr. Howard Zucker, concluded that the health and environmental risks were too high. Cuomo, for his part, claimed — implausibly — that he had played no role in the decision. “I am not a scientist,” he said, maintaining that he had merely taken the advice of his experts.

A few hours later, a state board approved the building of three casino complexes, the largest of which would be located in the old Catskills borscht belt. After the announcement, Cuomo put out an ebullient statement saying that these projects will “create thousands of local jobs, drive economic development in surrounding communities,” et cetera.

Anyone who cares about the economic viability of New York State should be troubled by these two decisions. It is fracking — despite risks — that has the potential to boost struggling communities, by providing well-paying, middle-class jobs. Casinos, meanwhile, are a road to nowhere. The Cuomo administration got it exactly backward.

Opinion | The Cuomo Cop-Out

 

[livingston]

City Democrats Celebrate New York’s Fracking Ban
The city’s leading Democrats all hailed Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s decision today to ban hydraulic fracturing in New York State, reaffirming stances they’d long taken against the gas extraction process.

“I think it’s the right decision. A lot of us have watched over recent years with a great deal of concern as more and more information came in,” Mayor Bill de Blasio told reporters. “I became convinced a few years ago that this is something we have to entirely rethink, and I think that what the governor has done is the right move for New York State.”

Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito and Comptroller Scott Stringer, fellow Democrats, also expressed gratitude over Mr. Cuomo’s long-awaited decision.

“The negative health consequences of fracking are well known and the Administration’s decision against it is sound science and sound policy,” Ms. Mark-Viverito said in a statement. “The governor and his team sent a bold statement today that we must ensure the health and well-being of all New Yorkers.”

Mr. Stringer stated that Mr. Cuomo had “sided with history, its citizens and its communities in implementing a ban on hydraulic fracturing.”

“It’s a great day for all of us who fought for years to ‘kill the drill’ and protect New Yorkers in every corner of the state from the hazards of fracking,” Mr. Stringer said.

Mr. Cuomo, re-elected this fall to a second term, dithered for years about banning fracking. Environmentalists, a well-organized constituency in the state, oppose fracking because extracting gas from deep underground can contaminate the state’s air and water supply and pose other public health risks.
City Democrats Celebrate New York’s Fracking Ban

 

[livingston]

Casino revenue should give N.Y. cause to pause: Editorial
Even before New York officials got sensible and went with the legal route to expand casino operations, they were basing their financial expectations on rosy projections. At one point, in fact, they were pitching as many as three casinos for the Catskills alone. And, to get there, they outrageously tried to skirt the state Constitution, which prohibited casino operations to expand beyond sovereign Native American land.

Under Gov. Andrew Cuomo, the state has at least gone through the legislature and then voters to amend the Constitution to make such expansions perfectly legal. But the question of where the casinos should be located – and how many of them ultimately there should be – continues to vex New York.

With three new upstate casinos failing to meet revenue projections, state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli is rightly being asked to do a hard analysis of the situation. The three casinos could end their first year with about $220 million less in total revenue than they projected when they won the bids for their gaming licenses in 2014, according to a review by the USA Today’s Albany Bureau.https://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com...uld-give-n-y-cause-pause-editorial/836650001/

 

[BDinPutnam]

Government abuses law and loses money. Shocking.

 

[Mr. terzmo]

That works for the furher as "if you are pro life,2nd amendment" you don't belong. As the hag stated..."we are the deploreables"

 

[livingston]

Some of the poorest counties are along the Penn border . Fracking would have offered tremendous economic growth. ... Still would . ... By banning fracking Cuomo destroys economic growth in the most poverty stricken part of the state. The part of the state that votes conservative and unencumbered gun ownership. .. Is still desired ....

 

[GOYABEAN]

Sure as Fuck can't blame Trump is the only one that gets those prizes

 

[Dr. Evil]

Revitalization effort? I must have blinked.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I’m actively trying to leave, and I’m almost out!

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Some of the poorest counties are along the Penn border . Fracking would have offered tremendous economic growth. ... Still would . ... By banning fracking Cuomo destroys economic growth in the most poverty stricken part of the state. The part of the state that votes conservative and unencumbered gun ownership. .. Is still desired ....

I've seen enough to be convinced fracking may have fantastic short term results with VERY long term damages. I'm not against growth but you can't piss away everything for a short term jackpot.

Casinos. Unless people from OUT OF STATE come to any casino in NY, the monies they generate are.coming from money that's IN THE STATE ALREADY, so there's no positive outcome. All the people who work in and benefit from a casino would only be paid by the people in that region so it's just a shell game.

I've lived in this state my whole life. The WNY area has seen revitalization like I've never seen in my life.....and I now want to leave more than ever.

 

[Jezman]

Well no one saw that coming I am so shocked.

 

[Catskillkid]

My work sometimes crosses paths with folks who do downtown/waterfront revitalization and economic development. They mean well but here's the problem:

Industry pretty much left NYS. Private sector jobs are hemorrhaging leaving little economic opportunities for those with minimal education. Gone are the days when you could graduate with a high school diploma and get a stable job at the factory on the edge of town. Even if you have a college or an advanced degree the opportunities outside of major metro areas are limited. Big employers like IBM or GE are no longer around to offer stable middle class jobs to the masses like they once did. In short, people go where the jobs. In NYS that basically means NYC and to a lesser extent some of the bigger urban areas like Albany, Syracuse, or Buffalo (and for those of you who live there you can probably attest that they're not exactly booming areas full of young professionals). Or more likely down south to Florida, Texas, the Carolinas or hubs like Atlanta (basically red states will minimal taxes and regulations that have healthy private sectors).

That leaves a lot of smaller and medium sized cities in upstate NY and their surrounding areas with basically one and only one option: tourism. Nothing wrong with that but you need a mixed economy (agriculture, manufacturing, services, education, etc.) to be healthy. So with state grants (ie your tax dollars) they redevelop waterfronts and downtowns and make them look pretty with the hope that people will want to live and visit there. The "successful" (notice I put that in quotation marks) ones have seen those downtowns grow with nice restaurants, art galleries, artists lofts, live music venues, etc. The not so successful ones may have upgraded Main Streets and Waterfronts and while the windows are clean they still have "For Rent" or "For Sale" signs in them.

I've lived in Binghamton when I was going to college (for the record I actually really liked living there). They had their First Friday art events and in recent years downtown has expanded with restaurants and micobrews aimed at the student population but basically that's it. I now spend a lot of time in Kingston. Similar thing happening in the Rondout Waterfront area and the uptown Stockade area. Bars and restaurants and art galleries are popping up but that's about it. Closer to where I grew up in Monticello they spent a ton of money redoing Broadway. It looks great but guess what? All the storefronts are still shuttered. They just have a fresh coat of paint on them now. And that's with the new casino a 5 minute drive down the road.

The point I'm trying to make is that the only "economic revitalization" that can be done in upstate NY given it's present business climate is to try and make a place look aesthetically pleasing and hope that it will become an artists hub with restaurants and micobrews popping up to service the crowd who comes for the music and arts festivals. But just like casinos, there's only so much of that that the market can bear before it gets saturated. And you know what else? It's not just upstate NY that's doing this. It's every small and medium sized community across the country that's doing this too. Ask yourself how many microbreweries and art galleries do we really need?

People need stable jobs that afford a middle class lifestyle and unfortunately, the only places that you can get that are in bigger cities or states with less onerous regulations and taxes that allow the private sector to thrive. And as we all know New York State isn't going to cut taxes and loosen regulations anytime soon. But we sure can enjoy an artisan burger with a craft bear sitting on the dock by the new art gallery listening to a new "up-and-coming" acoustic guitar player.

 

[Catskillkid]

I've seen enough to be convinced fracking may have fantastic short term results with VERY long term damages. I'm not against growth but you can't piss away everything for a short term jackpot.

Casinos. Unless people from OUT OF STATE come to any casino in NY, the monies they generate are.coming from money that's IN THE STATE ALREADY, so there's no positive outcome. All the people who work in and benefit from a casino would only be paid by the people in that region so it's just a shell game.

I've lived in this state my whole life. The WNY area has seen revitalization like I've never seen in my life.....and I now want to leave more than ever.

I would also like to echo these sentiments. I'm not 100% opposed to fraking like some people are and completely understand why many would want/need to exploit their mineral resources. But anyone who has had a well go dry can attest if you don't have water you don't have anything. Contamination is a nasty business whether they be from fraking fluid or something else.

I will also add that my uncle lives out west where they had a fraking boom. While contamination wasn't that huge of issue the problem with it was it created boom towns that as soon as prices dropped closed up overnight. Basically, it was not sustained economic growth. When the taps were turned off everything went away and the communities were right back where they started with nothing to really show for it.

 

[Acer-m14]

what has worked with grants and FUAC deals ??? got a biz idea .. go to the fkin bank and get a loan .. stay out of my paycheck .. stay out of the Biz owners income .. maybe then they could afford to paint and repair the exterior of his Biz ..

 

[Mr. terzmo]

Well...Buffalo got the billion and it went to the contractor pledging the highest kickback as indicated in the trial. ONE project that cost over 200k per employee, when a $hitload of smaller ones would of far been better. But then Albany would not have as much "control" over those smaller contracting skalywags.

 

[stuck in ny]

Kind of hard to get people to stay in places where food service is the main employer and everything is rotting, rusting , and falling down.

 

[stuck in ny]

We need to accept the fact that, as a whole, the national GOP does not represent us. They represent the work-for-nothing trailer park states, who have been stealing northern industry since 1900. They are a threat to our future every bit as real as Asia.

 

[Robin]

The only thing being revitalized are the wallets of the Cuomo crime family. FUNY
Robin

 

[Defilade]

We need to accept the fact that, as a whole, the national GOP does not represent us. They represent the work-for-nothing trailer park states, who have been stealing northern industry since 1900. They are a threat to our future every bit as real as Asia.

Umm, Can't beat em join em!

 

[Podmonkey]

I've seen enough to be convinced fracking may have fantastic short term results with VERY long term damages. I'm not against growth but you can't piss away everything for a short term jackpot.

Casinos. Unless people from OUT OF STATE come to any casino in NY, the monies they generate are.coming from money that's IN THE STATE ALREADY, so there's no positive outcome. All the people who work in and benefit from a casino would only be paid by the people in that region so it's just a shell game.

I've lived in this state my whole life. The WNY area has seen revitalization like I've never seen in my life.....and I now want to leave more than ever.

I am looking into a job hauling sand for fracking operations in Texas. I could be making a six figure a year income doing this which is more than double than what I do now. That is a tremendous increase. Also what is the total environmental impact of increased natural gas production? Natural gas burns cleaner than just about anything else, so clean it can be used to power internal combustion engines indoors. That gas is going to come from somewhere, by banning fracking in NYS all cuomo has done is ensure you patsies pay many times more to have it shipped in by tanker trucks. Of course pipelines would be much cheaper and wouldn't involve nearly as much emissions from the combustion of diesel fuel.............. oh thats right, can't have that in NYS either. Fucking state is so bass ackwards most of you don't even know how badly you are getting fucked. The rest of the country has left y'all far behind. And that is why everyone with any sense is leaving and why no one with even half a cent's worth of sense is moving in. Those of us that have left know this.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

I am looking into a job hauling sand for fracking operations in Texas. I could be making a six figure a year income doing this which is more than double than what I do now. That is a tremendous increase. Also what is the total environmental impact of increased natural gas production? Natural gas burns cleaner than just about anything else, so clean it can be used to power internal combustion engines indoors. That gas is going to come from somewhere, by banning fracking in NYS all cuomo has done is ensure you patsies pay many times more to have it shipped in by tanker trucks. Of course pipelines would be much cheaper and wouldn't involve nearly as much emissions from the combustion of diesel fuel.............. oh thats right, can't have that in NYS either. Fucking state is so bass ackwards most of you don't even know how badly you are getting fucked. The rest of the country has left y'all far behind. And that is why everyone with any sense is leaving and why no one with even half a cent's worth of sense is moving in. Those of us that have left know this.

It's not the natural gas, or the sand that concerns me. No argument on the product. It's the cocktail of volatile shit they pump in the ground as part of the process. I've seen too much about how great the jobs and the money is until the water table is so contaminated people have to walk away from their homes because the ground water is so polluted you can't even shower in it let alone drink it Greatest thing is if your neighbor wants to allow fracking, and you don't, you get screwed when your water table is polluted along with everyone else's. Promise me everything they pump down that hole is inert and harmless and I'll change my tune.

 

[Podmonkey]

It's not the natural gas, or the sand that concerns me. No argument on the product. It's the cocktail of volatile shit they pump in the ground as part of the process. I've seen too much about how great the jobs and the money is until the water table is so contaminated people have to walk away from their homes because the ground water is so polluted you can't even shower in it let alone drink it Greatest thing is if your neighbor wants to allow fracking, and you don't, you get screwed when your water table is polluted along with everyone else's. Promise me everything they pump down that hole is inert and harmless and I'll change my tune.

Well, bottom line is I wouldn't plan on living there longer than the job lasts. Also I wonder if the claims against fracking aren't overblown. These kind of things so frequently are. Again what is the environmental balance? I'm not sure. But for a guy like me with no college degree a 120k a year opportunity is difficult to gainsay. There are a few things holding me back, none of them environmental. Ultimately I gives a fuck about that.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Well, bottom line is I wouldn't plan on living there longer than the job lasts. Also I wonder if the claims against fracking aren't overblown. These kind of things so frequently are. Again what is the environmental balance? I'm not sure. But for a guy like me with no college degree a 120k a year opportunity is difficult to gainsay. There are a few things holding me back.

You've proven my point quite nicely thank you.

 

[Podmonkey]

You've proven my point quite nicely thank you.

Fine, stay in NYS then.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Fine, stay in NYS then.

Look. While Monkeyface and I agree on nothing, Ive not been convinced fracking is worth poisoning my land, and the land of my neighbors. Once you fuck your shit up no amount of money is going to make that better again. Prove it's 100% safe, hell I'll give you even 80% safe, then frack away.

 

[GOPerfect]

Revitalization does NOT work if funded by the Government. In years past, sure, not present day.

 

[Podmonkey]

Look. While Monkeyface and I agree on nothing, Ive not been convinced fracking is worth poisoning my land, and the land of my neighbors. Once you fuck your shit up no amount of money is going to make that better again. Prove it's 100% safe, hell I'll give you even 80% safe, then frack away.

There has gotta be something they can pump that doesn't do as much harm.
But again, the fuck do I care about Midlands in West Texas? You ever been to West Texas? Nothing there but dirt, tumbleweeds and cattle.

On a different note, are you supposed to capitalize the "W" in West Texas?

 

[GOPerfect]

On a different note, are you supposed to capitalize the "W" in West Texas?

Yep. And Yes, I understand

 

[Podmonkey]

Revitalization does NOT work if funded by the Government. In years past, sure, not present day.

Not even in past years. How do you think things got so fucked up today?