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President Donald Trump’s former attorney John Dowd sat down for a wide-ranging interview for premiere episode of “The Investigation," a new ABC News podcast focused on the probe led by special counsel Robert Mueller. A transcript of Dowd’s interview as it appears in episode 1 of the podcast follows here
ABC NEWS' KYRA PHILLIPS: Well, the question at the top of everyone’s mind – the highly anticipated Mueller report. Will it actually clear president trump and member of his campaign? Here now the man we’ve been talking about – our conversation with President Trump’s former attorney John Dowd. So, John, word is the Mueller report is going to drop within the next couple of weeks.
JOHN DOWD: I don't think there'll be a report. The rules of the department say, no report.
PHILLIPS: So what do you think's gonna, what do you think it will be? It will just…
DOWD: I don't know. I think-- I mean, a declination's a declination. It's like-- you know, I mean, I've written a declination or told my superiors or the attorney general what I've declined on. I did the internal investigation of the F.B.I. I declined, probably, 20 cases there. I just--
ABC NEWS' CHRIS VLASTO: So you don't think the public's gonna see anything. You think it's $40 million. Mueller investigated it. And that's it.
DOWD: No, but the rules of the department, just put yourself-- put yourself in the president's shoes. Let's say we investigate you guys. And it comes out you're a witness and a subject. You cooperate transparently. And we take all those facts. And we say, you know, "There's nothin' here." The idea that you would take that information and make it public, you know, violates the whole concept of the grand jury. (NOISE) What's the grand jury for? To protect the innocent. And by the way, I've read thousands of grand juries. And I-- it does protect the innocent. I mean, maybe one in ten cases, you would bring. But you would investigate some-- I mean, I'm talking about organized crime, public corruption. Your I mean, you come-- you come close to really-- awful stuff. But is it a crime? Is it prosecutable? No. Does that ever get reported? No.
PHILLIPS: So you're saying, when Mueller's report drops, it's gonna be a flop. You’re saying, we're not gonna--
DOWD: Oh, I will be shocked, if anything regarding the president is made public, other than, "We're done."
VLASTO: That's a…that's a big headline. That's you know, I…
DOWD: But you know, the president has-- and his lawyers have-- been fairly transparent. I mean, it's-- you know, everybody knows who the witnesses were. And the White House documents are another question, particularly the communications by counsel with the president, which we gave to Bob. So I mean, Bob-- I mean, he-- there's no time in history has anybody had this kinda look at communications with the president.
PHILLIPS: Do you respect what Mueller is doing? I know you know Mueller well.
DOWD: Well, I respected it in the beginning. And I started out. And I-- it's my s-- my style is I always trust the other side, until I didn't. In my opinion, on March 5th, we were done. He had everything. He said he had everything. He told me that no one had lied. He told me they had every document we asked for. He told me that it was nothing more. He told me that the president was not a target. That is, he did not have any exposure, that he was a witness subject, which is perfectly normal for someone's conduct you're looking at, but they don't have exposure. What people don't understand about the president, and I think the same would be w-- with you, is y-- you have too much information in your life. When you go back and talk about f-- Flynn or Comey, those events, while magnified in the media, are nothin', not compared to the threat of the Soviet Union, the threat of the-- China, dealing with Japan, dealing with Korea. I mean, the amount of information that he intakes every day, gets prepared for, is staggering. And in my questioning him or talking to him, he questioned w-- you know, first question, easy. Second question, easy. Third question, he wasn't sure. And he doesn't like being unsure. So he'll guess. There's your trap, right there. It's not whether he lies or not. Everybody wants to get into this, you know-- this integrity business. It's not a matter of integrity. It's overload.
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TRANSCRIPT: Former Trump attorney John Dowd's interview on ABC News' 'The Investigation' podcast
ABC NEWS' KYRA PHILLIPS: Well, the question at the top of everyone’s mind – the highly anticipated Mueller report. Will it actually clear president trump and member of his campaign? Here now the man we’ve been talking about – our conversation with President Trump’s former attorney John Dowd. So, John, word is the Mueller report is going to drop within the next couple of weeks.
JOHN DOWD: I don't think there'll be a report. The rules of the department say, no report.
PHILLIPS: So what do you think's gonna, what do you think it will be? It will just…
DOWD: I don't know. I think-- I mean, a declination's a declination. It's like-- you know, I mean, I've written a declination or told my superiors or the attorney general what I've declined on. I did the internal investigation of the F.B.I. I declined, probably, 20 cases there. I just--
ABC NEWS' CHRIS VLASTO: So you don't think the public's gonna see anything. You think it's $40 million. Mueller investigated it. And that's it.
DOWD: No, but the rules of the department, just put yourself-- put yourself in the president's shoes. Let's say we investigate you guys. And it comes out you're a witness and a subject. You cooperate transparently. And we take all those facts. And we say, you know, "There's nothin' here." The idea that you would take that information and make it public, you know, violates the whole concept of the grand jury. (NOISE) What's the grand jury for? To protect the innocent. And by the way, I've read thousands of grand juries. And I-- it does protect the innocent. I mean, maybe one in ten cases, you would bring. But you would investigate some-- I mean, I'm talking about organized crime, public corruption. Your I mean, you come-- you come close to really-- awful stuff. But is it a crime? Is it prosecutable? No. Does that ever get reported? No.
PHILLIPS: So you're saying, when Mueller's report drops, it's gonna be a flop. You’re saying, we're not gonna--
DOWD: Oh, I will be shocked, if anything regarding the president is made public, other than, "We're done."
VLASTO: That's a…that's a big headline. That's you know, I…
DOWD: But you know, the president has-- and his lawyers have-- been fairly transparent. I mean, it's-- you know, everybody knows who the witnesses were. And the White House documents are another question, particularly the communications by counsel with the president, which we gave to Bob. So I mean, Bob-- I mean, he-- there's no time in history has anybody had this kinda look at communications with the president.
PHILLIPS: Do you respect what Mueller is doing? I know you know Mueller well.
DOWD: Well, I respected it in the beginning. And I started out. And I-- it's my s-- my style is I always trust the other side, until I didn't. In my opinion, on March 5th, we were done. He had everything. He said he had everything. He told me that no one had lied. He told me they had every document we asked for. He told me that it was nothing more. He told me that the president was not a target. That is, he did not have any exposure, that he was a witness subject, which is perfectly normal for someone's conduct you're looking at, but they don't have exposure. What people don't understand about the president, and I think the same would be w-- with you, is y-- you have too much information in your life. When you go back and talk about f-- Flynn or Comey, those events, while magnified in the media, are nothin', not compared to the threat of the Soviet Union, the threat of the-- China, dealing with Japan, dealing with Korea. I mean, the amount of information that he intakes every day, gets prepared for, is staggering. And in my questioning him or talking to him, he questioned w-- you know, first question, easy. Second question, easy. Third question, he wasn't sure. And he doesn't like being unsure. So he'll guess. There's your trap, right there. It's not whether he lies or not. Everybody wants to get into this, you know-- this integrity business. It's not a matter of integrity. It's overload.
More at ....
TRANSCRIPT: Former Trump attorney John Dowd's interview on ABC News' 'The Investigation' podcast