HELP? reloading data needed

togmaster · Jan 10, 2019

Thought 800-X Hi-score was a Hodgdon product.

Carlos Hathcock · Jan 10, 2019

I just got the new edition last night. Lemme look it up. Prob by tomorrow. I think they have online resources at Hornady as well.

thegatman · Jan 10, 2019

I could only find data for 180 grain bullet. 5 to 8 grains. I do not reload 40 so I would take the info with a “grain of salt”

meketrefe · Jan 10, 2019

It is one of the large disc powder so it should be in the 7-9gr range depending on bullet.

Here is a link from the old IMR powders..... It seems 8 grains is a good starting load.

http://www.tsn.biella.it/armi/ManualiRicarica/Imr Reloading Data File Pistol.pdf

ASSUME NOTHING, DO NOT TAKE ANYONE'S ONLINE RECIPES. DO YOUR RESEARCH.

btw...
reloading books are a waste of money.
Maybe have one for the basics so get a simple one or one from the library.
The lymans book is full of errors so I would not waste money on it.
Manufacturers data is so conservative in some cases that it looks is written by lawyers.

So the best thing is to get a ballsitics software that is continously updating the optimal formulas.
Or gather all the manufactures data, not just from powder but from bullet manufactures and
corroborate from at least 2 of not 3 sources.

I hope this helps.

MilesTeg · Jan 10, 2019

I just checked this book with no luck. No data for that powder under 180 grain bullet.

gun_slinger_boy · Jan 10, 2019

And for the love of all that's good do not throw this powder! 800x is very versatile but meters like shit. If you throw it you will have to trickle or scoop out a certain amount of power. You will have to verify each and every charge. It does not meter consistently whatsoever. May as well go straight to the scoops.

Airborneguy · Jan 10, 2019

@Jmac00 there ya go.

meketrefe · Jan 11, 2019

Airborneguy said:
@Jmac00 there ya go.

Lets be cautious here.

it could be a similar powder but nowhere it says whether it is Hodgdon 800X or
IMR "Hi-skor" 800x .. nor if they are the same powder. Same as rifle powders. IMR. 4895 is not the same as Hod. 4895.
When in doubt call the manufacturer.

The old pdf is from the manufacturer from the now discontinued IMR 800x

http://www.tsn.biella.it/armi/ManualiRicarica/Imr Reloading Data File Pistol.pdf

Airborneguy · Jan 11, 2019

Jmac00 said:
thanx, i'll make a copy of that. what book is that out of?

Lyman 50th.

meketrefe · Jan 11, 2019

Like I said,
If you have a book already keep it otherwise do not waste your money in one.
The lymans manual is full of errors in recipes. I have an older edition that I will use for kindling but even the latest ones have the same problems.
They conflict with quick load, powley formulas and real life data, including manufactures.
Bottom line there is no one single source that has the best load but the manufacturers is a good start and also white papers like sierra match
loads. Even quick load should be corroborated. I can verify because I have my own software I made and my own database but when a new
powder comes out I do the same, go to the websites, update software, etc.. and when and if I get to test it I write down everything including
the barrel, type of rifling, temperature, etc... so many variables .
All the up to date information is in the websites/online from manufacturers of powders, bullets, rifles, and specially ballistics software etc..
I have a good stack of .pdfs I could post them via attachment but not sure how.

gun_slinger_boy · Jan 11, 2019

meketrefe said:
Like I said,
If you have a book already keep it otherwise do not waste your money in one.
The lymans manual is full of errors in recipes. I have an older edition that I will use for kindling but even the latest ones have the same problems.
They conflict with quick load, powley formulas and real life data, including manufactures.
Bottom line there is no one single source that has the best load but the manufacturers is a good start and also white papers like sierra match
loads. Even quick load should be corroborated. I can verify because I have my own software I made and my own database but when a new
powder comes out I do the same, go to the websites, update software, etc.. and when and if I get to test it I write down everything including
the barrel, type of rifling, temperature, etc... so many variables .
All the up to date information is in the websites/online from manufacturers of powders, bullets, rifles, and specially ballistics software etc..
I have a good stack of .pdfs I could post them via attachment but not sure how.

I get what you're saying but most of us just aren't that technical nor have access to much past 100 yards. I'd wager that most of us don't even care what the test barrel length is, may or may not know our own barrel twist rate and don't care too much about the final velocity of the load we settle on. We just want to get a load that functions reliably and is practically accurate. I think a book is perfect for most of us. And there is the added benefit of it being available even if there is no internet.

meketrefe · Jan 11, 2019

gun_slinger_boy said:
I get what you're saying but most of us just aren't that technical nor have access to much past 100 yards. I'd wager that most of us don't even care what the test barrel length is, may or may not know our own barrel twist rate and don't care too much about the final velocity of the load we settle on. We just want to get a load that functions reliably and is practically accurate. I think a book is perfect for most of us. And there is the added benefit of it being available even if there is no internet.

Hi,
It has really nothing to do with being technical or precision. The book has many mistakes. I attribute this to bad writers, lyman
only puts the logo on that book.

Let me give you an example, in the 6.8 SPC section they have a totally obsolete set of recipes that Remington published at some point.
None of the best powders, none of the best bullets, nothing that indicates reasonable starting loads nor max loads for hunting.
In other words, it is worthless.

Same thing with many other calibers like the popular 7mm 08, missing many 308 loads, etc...

All this information is available from manufactures and can be downloaded from both free online tables and pdf documents.

So who would want to pay for a book that is not cheap that is full of crap? Some loads are not only bad they might be dangerous
according to the ballistics calculators.

If one wants a hardcopy reference for many calibers, a used paper back Lee 123 manual for $10 will include all the basic info, pictures
and even loading information to load by volume that is intended for the very same purpose you mention that is reloading for
the masses.

In 2 minutes anyone can have more comprehensive and better information in a few pages, staple them and bring it to my workbench.

Why spend more for nothing? That is my point.

I am saying this in good faith. I have wasted plenty of money myself in many useless things over the years. nobody needs no stinky paper brick.

gun_slinger_boy · Jan 12, 2019

meketrefe said:
Hi,
It has really nothing to do with being technical or precision. The book has many mistakes. I attribute this to bad writers, lyman
only puts the logo on that book.

Let me give you an example, in the 6.8 SPC section they have a totally obsolete set of recipes that Remington published at some point.
None of the best powders, none of the best bullets, nothing that indicates reasonable starting loads nor max loads for hunting.
In other words, it is worthless.

Same thing with many other calibers like the popular 7mm 08, missing many 308 loads, etc...

All this information is available from manufactures and can be downloaded from both free online tables and pdf documents.

So who would want to pay for a book that is not cheap that is full of crap? Some loads are not only bad they might be dangerous
according to the ballistics calculators.

If one wants a hardcopy reference for many calibers, a used paper back Lee 123 manual for $10 will include all the basic info, pictures
and even loading information to load by volume that is intended for the very same purpose you mention that is reloading for
the masses.

In 2 minutes anyone can have more comprehensive and better information in a few pages, staple them and bring it to my workbench.

Why spend more for nothing? That is my point.

I am saying this in good faith. I have wasted plenty of money myself in many useless things over the years. nobody needs no stinky paper brick.

I have a hornady load data book (9th edition). I really like the way they have it all laid out in the book. I have looked on their website but the calibers they list are extremely limited. That's my reason for using the book. I've looked on hodgdons website because I use quite a few of their powers and their calibers are much more inclusive but their bullets are extremely limited. I also dislike how they have their loads set up. It just lists the start load and max load. Hornady is much more incremental showing different charges and velocities throughout the range.

Hodgdon also has some really strange loadings that only list max loads. That makes no sense to me except in subsonic loads. For instance if you look at their 223 load for 55 grain SPR SP using Winchester 748 there is no starting load and only a max load of 26.3 grains. Does this mean that the only functioning load is 26.3? I know the answer is no but I also know you're supposed to work your way up not down. In the hornady book it lists 5 charges starting at 22.7 grains and ending at 26.4 for 748. Also, for 223 55 grain it has only 3 loads for 55 grain HDY FMJ and they are all subsonic. It's like they don't want you using hornady components. But in the hornady manual there are tons of hodgdon powders. I wonder if hodgdon has some issue with hornady like lee does with remington.

meketrefe · Jan 12, 2019

Any book has problems. The problem with hodgdon is the max loads. I suspect they are rewritten by lawyers. Accurate pdf is much better.
@gun_slinger_boy
Lets do this if you agree...
Tell me one load you would be interested on?
We will use this to show how to combine several sources and consolidate the best possible compilation wo having to buy software or anything.
If nobody has a load we can go with lets say a 75gr-80gr 223?
Or perhaps something like a 357 mag for hunting at close range?
Anything really. It doesnt matter.

If course, if this is ok with thr op @Jmac00

gun_slinger_boy · Jan 13, 2019

Jmac00 said:
I got another question. when reloading rifle rounds, like the 30-30 or 45-70, do you use case lube?

Anything with a neck I would use case lube. So the 30-30 definitely. There are some casings with necks that you can get away with not using lube but they are very small cases like the 7.62x25. But why make life harder? I've never reloaded 45-70 but being that the case is so long and wide I'd imagine there would be a considerable amount of resistance on the up and down stroke. So I would still use lube. But if you really want to have your mind blown... you can use lube on any case! Try it some time. Straight walled pistol casings will be even easier to work with.

ManrisFrack · Jan 13, 2019

Hi-Skor 800X is sold under the Hodgdon name now. And of course Hodgdon bought IMR in '03. Try to contact them. They should give you the scoop on IMR 800x vs Hodgdon 800x and maybe some load data as well?

meketrefe · Jan 13, 2019

Jmac00 said:
I got another question. when reloading rifle rounds, like the 30-30 or 45-70, do you use case lube?

Always lube with the exception of short pistol/revolver casings.

But before we talk about lube we should talk about cleaning brass.

The lube is there to make the reloading trouble free and extend the life of dies, brass and even press (less pressure).
But if the brass comes from a tumbler where many times media mixed with polishing or abrasive compounds or by
the debris themselves leave a dusty film in and outside the case so unless carefully and sometimes painstakingly
cleaned, the lube could makes things worse if not properly cleaned as it hides the abrasive nature of the mix of
tumbler dust and oil that can hide the problems and prematurely wear and scuff dies.
So that is why the best way is sonic wet cleaner as it releases all sort of residue including powder residues from
inside and out the case. If not sonic at least wet cleaning and nothing more than a good wash is better than
all the tumbling in the world. The tumbling should be left for cases of tarnishing and copper media or even other
cases can be used as media. 22lr cases make a great media to wet clean inside large pistol cases like that 45-70 of
yours.

That is why I never tumble brass anymore. I did for many years but in the last 10 years I only use wet and now
sonic cleaning.

Then I apply lube using sprayer and then back to another wash after sizing and trimming. When doing things in
batches one can do this in cycles and have one batch ready when going through the next.

In a few cases I might do small volumes of certain calibers that I reload with the single stage presses by simply
rubbing a bit of oil in my fingers and massaging the case so slightly with the intention to size and pehaps prime all
at once and many times charge and then wiping clean with a rug but in this case also making sure no lube makes
it inside the case nor the primer pockets where it can contaminate the load.

That is why the 2nd wash when spraying large batches for the progressive re-loader. I run the progressive
re-loader in two jobs, one for sizing and prep. and 2nd with lube clean brass for the actual load.
not a huge thing with automated case and bullet feeders.

In your situation I would slightly lube in both the 30-30 and 45-70 and always very clean brass to start with.
One pass is enough if you can assure the lube doesn't get into the case or primer pocket like what happens with re-loaders
and bulk sprayed brass.

If you tumble, I would say stop and switch to wet tumble or simply wash the brass. Or if you tumble spend the time
wiping those cases really well but this will not take care of the inside of the cases and primer pockets. Or at
least give a rinse with hot water and a bit of baking soda after tumbling.

meketrefe · Jan 13, 2019

Jmac00 said:
I see some people are using Hornady One Shot Case Lube. They say it will not comtaminate the powder or primers? Have you ever tried this stuff

Anything that is not part of the load data is contamination whether is active or passive contamination.
The lack of cleanings itself is contamination and why washing with a ph neutral solution is the best way.
I would not worry for pistol practice or general plinking loads but for hunting, match or long term storage will stay away from any sort of agent no matter what they say.

HELP? reloading data needed

.475 A&M Magnum

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.308 Win

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

.338 Win Mag

Attachments

.475 A&M Magnum

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.338 Win Mag

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.475 A&M Magnum

.338 Win Mag

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.338 Win Mag

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

.338 Win Mag

.223 Rem

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.475 A&M Magnum

.450/400 Nitro Ex