Is this AK legal in NY ?

[comifornia:(]

Would this AK with a strike industries AK simple grip fin be legal in NY? I'm manufacturing AK thumb grips for California AK's already and was wondering if this setup would be legal in NY. I've seen NY AK's using the spur grip, but not sure about the strike industries AK simple grip. Any help would be great thanks!

 

[Podmonkey]

I thought I heard someone say the paddle thing is not NYS complaint?

 

[Toecutter]

I've seen them in gun stores before. I haven't looked recently.
Yes all ak47s are legal .The state government is illegal in its actions. We have a criminal government in this state who denys us our rights.

 

[GOYABEAN]

I've seen them in gun stores before. I haven't looked recently.
Yes all ak47s are legal .The state government is illegal in its actions. We have a criminal government in this state who denys us our rights.

Yeah especially when it's left on the nysp to be the judge and jury

 

[togmaster]

I honestly don't think we will ever know. SAFE is written to be ambiguous.

 

[Marine Cpl]

That's a pistol grip with a fin on the back of it.

 

[comifornia:(]

That's a pistol grip with a fin on the back of it.

Its all one piece if that makes a difference in NY laws.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Its all one piece if that makes a difference in NY laws.

NY doesn't define a pistol grip like California does.

 

[Podmonkey]

The thumb spur on the side is an interesting idea though.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Its all one piece if that makes a difference in NY laws.

Try contacting nysp headquarters and see what they say is or isn't NYS safe act approved Good luck

 

[comifornia:(]

Try contacting nysp headquarters and see what they say is or isn't NYS safe act approved Good luck

Lol do you have Chuck Schumer 's phone number.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Lol do you have Chuck Schumer 's phone number.

Even he has no pull in regards to this matter nysp is the go to place according to king chucky is only uses his soapbox to Bitch and Moan puppet

 

[Runner99]

There were a lot of "fin grips" for ak and ar15s at the spring syracuse show.

I have also seen them on rifles in local stores.

We will NEVER get confrimation as to what is/isnt compliant in NY. The law was written to create fear among gun owners. It is purposely vague.

Our state police refuse to assist in any clarification. It is incredibly disheartening that men and women entrusted to protect us would prefer to let us live in uncertainty, rather that help us abide by the law by providing clarification.

Go on and sell your product, just provide a solid disclaimer.

 

[Marine Cpl]

There were a lot of "fin grips" for ak and ar15s at the spring syracuse show.

I have also seen them on rifles in local stores.

We will NEVER get confrimation as to what is/isnt compliant in NY. The law was written to create fear among gun owners. It is purposely vague.

Our state police refuse to assist in any clarification. It is incredibly disheartening that men and women entrusted to protect us would prefer to let us live in uncertainty, rather that help us abide by the law by providing clarification.

Go on and sell your product, just provide a solid disclaimer.

Just like a bunch of rifles with standard bullet buttons and Tier 5 bolt interrupters were sold too until someone spoke up. I'm only saying this because some think that because an FFL sells it, that it automatically makes it legal.

This is what happens when NY doesn't define anything. At least in California, they define what is what and you can work around it.

 

[Blimey]

It looks like a pistol grip to me.I wouldn't feel comfortable with it. I like the thordsen stock--gen 2. Gen 3 looks like a thumbhole to me.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

I've got one on my VEPR. Don't be a pussy.

 

[That_FNG]

It does not matter what it looks like, it only matters as to what it is. That is not a pistol grip anymore than the thordsen is a pistol grip.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It does not matter what it looks like, it only matters as to what it is. That is not a pistol grip anymore than the thordsen is a pistol grip.

The Thordsen is a stock. This a pistol grip with a fin attached to it and it no different than a pistol grip with a round curicular base attached to the bottom of it so that you can lay the rifle on a table.

It's still a pistol grip that protrudes below the action. It just has something attached to it just like the one that has a circular base attached to it although in a different place. The law doesn't say that if something is attached to it, it no longer becomes a pistol grip or if you can't get your thumb around it it's no longer a pistol grip like California's law does.

Would putting a kydex fin on a forward grip no longer make it a forward grip?

 

[libertysnake]

The Thordsen is a stock. This a pistol grip with a fin attached to it and it no different than a pistol grip with a round curicular base attached to the bottom of it.

It's still a pistol grip that protrudes below the action. It just has something attached to it just like this one has although in a different place. The law doesn't say that if something is attached to it, it no longer becomes a pistol grip or if you can't get your thumb around it it's no longer a pistol grip like California's law does.

Would putting some kydex on a forward grip no longer make it a forward grip?

The spur is probably the closest bet to the law, since it mostly lines up with the action of the rifle. It's a garbage grip, but it makes sense. Someone posted a picture of theirs some time ago.

 

[That_FNG]

The Thordsen is a stock. This a pistol grip with a fin attached to it and it no different than a pistol grip with a round curicular base attached to the bottom of it so that you can lay the rifle on a table.

It's still a pistol grip that protrudes below the action. It just has something attached to it just like the one that has a circular base attached to it although in a different place. The law doesn't say that if something is attached to it, it no longer becomes a pistol grip or if you can't get your thumb around it it's no longer a pistol grip like California's law does.

Would putting a kydex fin on a forward grip no longer make it a forward grip?

Yes, putting a fin on a forward grip would make it not a forward grip. If I take a threaded barrel and attach a muzzle cap via silver solder or by having it pinned in place, is it still a threaded barrel? If I take a semi automatic AR15 and remove the gas system so the gun has to be cycled manually, is it still a semi automatic ar15? It can not be a pistol grip if it can not be used as a pistol grip. You can not wrab the web of your hand around the grip. You hold it no different than a traditional monte carlo stock. If NYS does not define what something is, than you have to default to the federal definition. The Fin style grip is not a pistol grip per federal law. On top of that it is not a pistol grip per California law.

This is the definition of a pistol grip:

(d) “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon” means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top exposed portion of the trigger while firing.”

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yes, putting a fin on a forward grip would make it not a forward grip. If I take a threaded barrel and attach a muzzle cap via silver solder or by having it pinned in place, is it still a threaded barrel? If I take a semi automatic AR15 and remove the gas system so the gun has to be cycled manually, is it still a semi automatic ar15? It can not be a pistol grip if it can not be used as a pistol grip. You can not wrab the web of your hand around the grip. You hold it no different than a traditional monte carlo stock. If NYS does not define what something is, than you have to default to the federal definition. The Fin style grip is not a pistol grip per federal law. On top of that it is not a pistol grip per California law.

This is the definition of a pistol grip:

(d) “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon” means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top exposed portion of the trigger while firing.”

Apples and oranges. The Atf has regulations in regards to barrel length and threads and semi auto is either semi auto or not as per definition.

And where does it say a pistol styled grasp in penal law 265? You are quoting another state's law.

 

[That_FNG]

Apples and oranges. The Atf has regulations in regards to barrel length and threads and semi auto is either semi auto or not as per definition.

And where does it say a pistol styled grasp in penal law 265? You are quoting another state's law.

how is it apples and oranges?It was a pistol grip that was turned into a fin grip. No different then the example I gave with a threaded barrel. What if I took a pistol grip and cut it in half to make my own "spur grip". Would it still be a pistol grip then?

Yes I am quoting another states law. I would love to see NY tell California they are wrong and vice versa. This is no different than when people say you can't have a mossberg shockwave in NY without a pistol permit because NY doesn't define what a pistol is, therefore it must be pistol. It does not matter what the intent of the law is, only what the law actually says. If I was to invent a plasma laser pistol that was full auto would I be in violation of NYS laws ? How can one be in violation of the law if the law doesn't define what is and is not legal? How would it stand up in court?

 

[Marine Cpl]

How is it apples and oranges?It was a pistol grip that was turned into a fin grip. No different then the example I gave with a threaded barrel. What if I took a pistol grip and cut it in half to make my own "spur grip". Would it still be a pistol grip then?

No. Because it wouldn't protrude beneath the action.

Yes I am quoting another states law. I would love to see NY tell California they are wrong and vice versa. This is no different than when people say you can't have a mossberg shockwave in NY without a pistol permit because NY doesn't define what a pistol is, therefore it must be pistol. It does not matter what the intent of the law is, only what the law actually says. If I was to invent a plasma laser pistol that was full auto would I be in violation of NYS laws ? How can one be in violation of the law if the law doesn't define what is and is not legal? How would it stand up in court?

That's not how laws work. You can only go by our law and you can only be convicted by our laws. In other states the speed limit is 75mph. In others the DWI limit is .10 rather than .08.

And a Mossberg Shockwave isn't a pistol.

 

[That_FNG]

How is it apples and oranges?It was a pistol grip that was turned into a fin grip. No different then the example I gave with a threaded barrel. What if I took a pistol grip and cut it in half to make my own "spur grip". Would it still be a pistol grip then?

No. Because it wouldn't protrude beneath the action.

Yes I am quoting another states law. I would love to see NY tell California they are wrong and vice versa. This is no different than when people say you can't have a mossberg shockwave in NY without a pistol permit because NY doesn't define what a pistol is, therefore it must be pistol. It does not matter what the intent of the law is, only what the law actually says. If I was to invent a plasma laser pistol that was full auto would I be in violation of NYS laws ? How can one be in violation of the law if the law doesn't define what is and is not legal? How would it stand up in court?

That's not how laws work. You can only go by our law and you can only be convicted by our laws. In other states the speed limit is 75mph. In others the DWI limit is .10 rather than .08.

And a Mossberg Shockwave isn't a pistol.

You are missing the point. Just because it used to be something does not mean it is still the same something. How do you know the mossberg isn't a pistol? I mean since the law doesn't define what a pistol is and it does not have a stock, so therefore it must be a pistol? You can not wrap the web of your hand around a the fin grip. It can not be a pistol grip.

If I took a thordsen stock and cut the stock in half just after where my hand grips it, would it be stock or a pistol grip?

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are missing the point. Just because it used to be something does not mean it is still the same something. How do you know the mossberg isn't a pistol? I mean since the law doesn't define what a pistol is and it does not have a stock, so therefore it must be a pistol? You can not wrap the web of your hand around a the fin grip. It can not be a pistol grip.

If I took a thordsen stock and cut the stock in half just after where my hand grips it, would it be stock or a pistol grip?

I'm not missing anything. The ATF says what is a threaded barrel or not.

The Shockwave is not manufacturered as a pistol and the ATF says it isn't.

If you cut the stock off and only leave the grip portion, it becomes an angled grip that still protrudes beneath the action of the rifle.

 

[comifornia:(]

Here's a pic of the hand position with a fin and a AK thumb grip. By keeping your thumb from grasping around like a pistol grip I would think this would qualify as a non pistol grip. A thordsen if cut off would result in pistol grip.

 

[Marine Cpl]

From purly a functional standpoint, I don't know why anyone would want a grip that you can't wrap your thumb around. The thumb is the most important part of your hand for a positive grasp.

There are legal stocks out there that allow that.

 

[meketrefe]

Nobody knows as the legislation is open for arbitrary interpretation.
In any case that is a perfect solution for thumbless people who do not mind not having the control of the firearm.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I just don't understand the point of it unless a Thorsden is out of your price range. It's not like this allows you to have evil features any more than an FRS stock (or a spur with a Patrick Henry) does.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

I swear... ya gotta spell it out for some people.

Let me put it this way.

Fireworks (other than the cheap ground effect crap that was made legal recently) are illegal. Yet, all across this state, you will see fireworks in the sky around every 4th of July. It was remarked recently to me by someone as they were flying out of NYC, that even the city was alight with fireworks. The law is flagrantly ignored by everyone. Even on the lake in my little town of East Bumfuck, the troopers park their cars so they can watch the "show" that goes on all around the lake.

Anyway, I set my AK's and VEPR's up the way I do so people can see how cheaply they can legally get an AK. Hell, I was the first on the old forum to openly post pictures of my Yugo AK I bought AFTER the SAFE Act was passed, when many forum members were running around scared and plenty of them sold their "non-compliant" rifles because of the SAFE Act.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. NY gun owners are an ornery lot. I'm sure there are plenty of them who just want to make their rifles "legal" for safe transport until they get to whatever private property they're headed. Do you think they want to spend lots of money on an ugly stock that takes more than a few seconds to change out, or do you think they want to put on a cheap grip that comes off with one bolt?

And when shtf or enough people are pissed off enough to decide it's time to take back their country from a corrupt government, they took the money that would have been spent on crap stocks and put it towards more guns and ammo too, I bet.