Legal Full Auto? Franklin Armory BFSIII Binary AR Trigger

[Acer-m14]

@Bullet Guy @meketrefe something you might like ..
kinda like a skeet gun release trigger and more .. i think this could be done on the mini 14/30 too
from a vid i seen if you mess up the trigger job on the sear / disconector LOL

 

[Podmonkey]

I think this is the better of these types of trigger system.
Fostech Outdoors
Eliminating hammer follow issues makes this an actual, practical product. Too damn expensive though. I might buy one anyway however.

 

[WileyX585]

I like the fostech trigger system over the binary as well, however IMHO this is still far away from "full auto". I would like to pick one up to play with just out of curiosity, but it's a lot of money to drop on a trigger system alone.

 

[Saltwater60]

Too Much money in my opinion.

 

[Podmonkey]

A lot of money yes, but I think, for a civilian, Rapid double tap ability is more tactically sound than full auto. You can conserve and control ammo expenditure more easily with a binary trigger while still bumping up the volume of fire considerably. Now get me an ammo supply column following me around, then I'd opt for full auto.

 

[Podmonkey]

Too Much money in my opinion.

It's like a boat I guess, if you have to ask about the price......

 

[Robin]

I'm sure Herr Schneiderman would find a way to prosecute you with that trigger mounted to your scary black machine assault gun, and besides, ten rounds would be gone in a hiccup, never mind seven in other parts of the gulag. Looks like a well thought out and well engineered piece of equipment though, even at that price.
Robin

 

[Phazer]

I'm sure Herr Schneiderman would find a way to prosecute you with that trigger mounted to your scary black machine assault gun, and besides, ten rounds would be gone in a hiccup, never mind seven in other parts of the gulag. Looks like a well thought out and well engineered piece of equipment though, even at that price.
Robin

I'd thought that semi-automatic was defined as one shot fired per one trigger pull. So, how does firing on a trigger release figure into the equation? It may not create an automatic firearm. But...it may not be strictly "semi-automatic" any longer, either.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I'd thought that semi-automatic was defined as one shot fired per one trigger pull. So, how does firing on a trigger release figure into the equation? It may not create an automatic firearm. But...it may not be strictly "semi-automatic" any longer, either.

It's all in the wording. Technically you are still only getting 1 round per trigger pull. So far, there is no regulation on the release. However that is subject to change of course. In that aspect I think the slide fire is still a safer option (regulation wise) than this. Honestly I think the slide fire is better all around. On my ak I never had this hammer follow issue. And believe it or not it's not that hard to control on a 47 with a 74 brake. I can only imagine how easy it would be on 556. At this point the stocks are a mere fraction of the cost of one of these.

 

[Podmonkey]

I can't see trusting any bump fire stock to anything other than range use. What I would like to know is how susceptible is the fostech to fouling, blown primers, ect. It does look pretty complicated.

 

[Toecutter]

I like the idea having the ability of rapid fire if needed but I don't think I'd sacrifice a reliability . I would need for this technology to be proven ,tested, and cheaper. if I owned a ar15 rifle.

 

[Shadow2]

I don't understand the need to empty a mag as fast as possible. An empty gun is a useless one.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm not a fan of full auto on a 7 pound rifle. It's useless and a waste of ammunition unless you are suppressing the enemy. Even then unless you are supported on a bipod, your shots will not be accurate and will most likely be too high if you squeeze and don't let go.

Three found burst is better. You can actually control were your rounds are going.

This 2 round burst is even better. It gives you the ability to lay down accurate fire rapidly. Of course it's useless for us with 10 round magazines.

 

[togmaster]

A fun toy buy just a toy IMO. Why would you want a rifle that operates contrary to every other firearm you own. You train for the shot on the trigger pull but now you have another shot on the release. I like to control, with as much accuracy as possible, where every one of my shots go.

 

[Podmonkey]

A fun toy buy just a toy IMO. Why would you want a rifle that operates contrary to every other firearm you own. You train for the shot on the trigger pull but now you have another shot on the release. I like to control, with as much accuracy as possible, where every one of my shots go.

That's the strength of the binary trigger though. Two very close coupled shots, the POIs should be close to each other. Makes double taps easy and accurate. The Fostech is nice because if you fire a shot in binary mode and move the selector back to single fire while holding back the trigger no shot will be fired on the release. I think this trigger system is an ideal full auto alternative. You still have a single fire semi function. Plus you have the coolness of being able to rotate the selector back to the mythical "third postion" and have actual additional functionality there.

 

[MilesTeg]

That's the strength of the binary trigger though. Two very close coupled shots, the POIs should be close to each other. Makes double taps easy and accurate. The Fostech is nice because if you fire a shot in binary mode and move the selector back to single fire while holding back the trigger no shot will be fired on the release. I think this trigger system is an ideal full auto alternative. You still have a single fire semi function. Plus you have the coolness of being able to rotate the selector back to the mythical "third postion" and have actual additional functionality there.

My thoughts exactly. The idea has merit for real world scenarios not just emptying a mag as fast as you can. Double tap on a potential threat with one pull of the trigger is very appealing.

 

[Phazer]

My thoughts exactly. The idea has merit for real world scenarios not just emptying a mag as fast as you can. Double tap on a potential threat with one pull of the trigger is very appealing.

But...if you squeeze off a shot, hold the trigger, and decide not to fire a second round...too damn bad, you're shooting again.

 

[MilesTeg]

But...if you squeeze off a shot, hold the trigger, and decide not to fire a second round...too damn bad, you're shooting again.

Correct but if your using the rifle defensively this should be a non issue. There is still a semi auto mode. Therefore the only reason to go to 2 shot mode is making a conscious decision that you need/want 2 shots instead of one.

 

[Podmonkey]

But...if you squeeze off a shot, hold the trigger, and decide not to fire a second round...too damn bad, you're shooting again.

No, watch the MAC video. As stated above, using the Fostech trigger in binary mode if you fire the first shot and decide you don't want the second shot hold the trigger to the rear and rotate the selector to safe or single and no shot will be fired on the release.

 

[MilesTeg]

No, watch the MAC video. As stated above, using the Fostech trigger in binary mode if you fire the first shot and decide you don't want the second shot hold the trigger to the rear and rotate the selector to safe or single and no shot will be fired on the release.

I can't watch the video at work, but cant wait to when I get home. I really think the idea has merit. I would how the trigger feels.

 

[Phazer]

But...if you squeeze off a shot, hold the trigger, and decide not to fire a second round...too damn bad, you're shooting again.

No, watch the MAC video. As stated above, using the Fostech trigger in binary mode if you fire the first shot and decide you don't want the second shot hold the trigger to the rear and rotate the selector to safe or single and no shot will be fired on the release.

Thanks. I didn't see the video.

I stand corrected.

But...having to adjust the selector in order to prevent a second shot from going down range is not quite intuitive.

 

[Marine Cpl]

A fun toy buy just a toy IMO. Why would you want a rifle that operates contrary to every other firearm you own. You train for the shot on the trigger pull but now you have another shot on the release. I like to control, with as much accuracy as possible, where every one of my shots go.

In the military, our rifles fired semi auto and 3 round burst. When 3 round burst was selected, all 3 rounds fired with one trigger pull. You could not fire one round on 3 round burst.

This is better. Although the internal mechanics are different than 3 round burst like the military has, you get a 2 round burst just the same. Even better, you have the ability to fire just 1 round when selected on binary (2 round burst) mode.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Thanks. I didn't see the video.

I stand corrected.

But...having to adjust the selector in order to prevent a second shot from going down range is not quite intuitive.

In the military, when you make a conscience decision to select the 3 round burst and the trigger is pulled, all 3 round fire. You cannot change to semi auto until the 3rd round is fired after a trigger pull. This is even better because to have that option of preventing that although I don't know why you would. That option is there but will most likely never be used.

If you are firing in burst mode, I cannot think of a scenario where you only need one round vs 2. You are in burst mode and selected it for a reason. If you are in burst mode and are done firing in burst mode and now only need semi auto, a flick of the thumb brings you back to semi.

 

[TheTeZ]

i dont know if they've changed, but when the Franklin Armory triggers came out, they wouldnt ship to NY

 

[togmaster]

i dont know if they've changed, but when the Franklin Armory triggers came out, they wouldnt ship to NY

From their web site;

Warning:

• Not for civilian sales in CA, DC, IA, ND, NJ, NY, or WA.

 

[Marine Cpl]

From their web site;

Warning:

• Not for civilian sales in CA, DC, IA, ND, NJ, NY, or WA.

Then you ship it to a relative's house.

 

[TheTeZ]

Yeah, I didnt think they had changed... I dont know why they just assume we cant have it....

 

[Uzi]

Not illegal in NY. I can see a practical use for the "double tap" feature to be honest. When you can only load 10 rounds though, you can fire those two rounds pretty much as quickly on semi anyways where it's not too much of a trade off for the cost.

 

[dsdmmat]

I think this is the better of these types of trigger system.
Fostech Outdoors
Eliminating hammer follow issues makes this an actual, practical product. Too damn expensive though. I might buy one anyway however.

While these triggers look very cool and fun to play with, I would not install one in my defensive rifle. Not because of legal issues or any worries of that nature. I would not install it because, It has not been battle proven. All of my defensive rifles have MILSPEC triggers in them, it is not like I will be trying to put small groups on the perp at 100 yards. The 5.5 pound trigger pull is not heavy enough to worry about and I am comfortable with it. My target rifles have enhanced triggers but they are not the ones sitting at the ready.

 

[Podmonkey]

I agree that it would require a comprehensive shakedown period before I was willing to put it to use on a defensive rifle as well. But it you look into it it seems that it does what it does in a similar manner to a military full auto trigger group with a disconnecter in a similar configuration. I imagine the sear and some other arrangements are different. It would be worth some range research.