To try and get back to the actual topic and help @dwa12479 If your rifle is only malfunctioning when running the one WMD bcg and you’re sure that your rifle is setup properly, then the common denominator is the WMD bcg itself. I wouldn’t start using an adjustable gas block or change buffer weights to try and get the WMD bcg to work properly. That’s only going to screw your rifle up when you try and run a properly made bcg. If it’s not functioning properly now, then something is most likely wrong with it. If the warranty only allows for getting another WMD bcg than that’s what you’ll have to go with. A properly made WMD should work fine though. If you’re able to get your money back, you can try that route and choose a different bcg from a company that I named earlier. For example BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, SOLGW, Sionics, Noveske, Geissele...those are all most likely pretty close in price range as the WMD.
Nickel Boron BCG moving too fast?
- Thread starter dwa12479
- Start date
Ford Sucks, buy a Chevy !
Since your new at reloading, you shouldn't comment on anything, especially the OP's BCG issues !
How dare you !!!!
Experience and accomplishments matter. Big egos and bruised egos don't.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
My remark was related to reloading as I referenced. It affects the usability of the cartridges for reloading. Seems going off half cocked is still a problem.
Robin
Robin
So this is a thread about reloading now?
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Props to WMD customer service. Within 1 hour of emailing them yesterday I had a prepaid shipping label in my inbox, no questions asked.
Sick.. can't wait to hear the follow up
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Gents, let's keep it civil. It's nice to talk guns for a change rather than politics.
I've got serious doubts it's the coating. It almsot sounds to me like something is out of spec. If the rifle runs fun with others, I would just use another one...maybe see if the replacement works.
I'm not as old or crusty as some in this thread, but I've seen a thing or two with ar-15s. I've personally never been a big fan of nib. I've seen it flake off more than one bolt carrier. Call me paranoid, but I don't like shiny stuff anywhere on my guns either, unless of course it is stainless to begging with.
With a good synthetic grease, they all run slick as snot.
Anyway, keep us updated.
I'm not as old or crusty as some in this thread, but I've seen a thing or two with ar-15s. I've personally never been a big fan of nib. I've seen it flake off more than one bolt carrier. Call me paranoid, but I don't like shiny stuff anywhere on my guns either, unless of course it is stainless to begging with.
With a good synthetic grease, they all run slick as snot.
Anyway, keep us updated.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
My thoughts too. Being that it was new, I didn't get too far into diagnosing the problem. I already ordered a replacement Spikes BCG. I've used some Spikes gear in the past, but never any of the BCG's. But I'm always open to using new stuff. WMD is taking back my defective piece, so I'll have another extra BCG kicking around.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
funny you say wmd bolts.
I started havibg trouble with tjem back in 2013. I guess they are atill banging a square peg in a round hole.
answer your phone! I called you last month! I even left a message and called back. Wtf?
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Im forgot to post this pic with the OP, I'm interested to see if the new BCG they send has gas key bolts that look like this. They were staked and didn't move, but I don't recall ever seeing another gas key that the bolts were like this.
Looks weird to me. I’ve never seen a properly installed gas key with any of the fasteners as high as that front one. Though I will say that they do look to be using some of the best fasteners there are which are OCKS instead of the standard YFS fasteners. Do you own an in-lb torque wrench?
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
I do, but this BCG has already been sent back. I didnt want to make any alterations to it prior to that lest they say I messed it up. I did put an Allen key in there and see if it would move, it didn't, but it was well staked. The key wasn't loose either.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Yep, none of these have any of the fasteners popped up like that.
If you ever want to check if your gas key is torqued properly you can test it with the in-lb torque wrench like a FAT wrench or Fix It Sticks. Start at like 20in-lbs and try and back it out. It shouldn’t move. The max to go up for the test is to 30in-lbs and do the same, it still shouldn’t move. The minimum a gas key should be torqued down is 50in-lbs.
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Bad advice. Don't do that. It will not show if proper torque was originally used and it will weaken the staking. Leave it alone if it's not loose.
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A 100% properly staked and torqued gas key won’t move and it wouldn’t have any adverse effect. Though I will say that you should have replacement parts and tools on hand while performing the test. So be prepared that if your gas key does fail the test you’ll have to replace the gas key since you’ll be pretty much destroying the displaced metal from the original gas key staking. Which at that point might as well upgrade to the OCKS fasteners and chuck the older YFS ones. Lots of companies actually don’t properly torque their gas keys and I’ve also seen some shitty gas key staking. Another thing that some companies don’t do is apply sealant between the gas key and the carrier itself, which is why you’ll see gas leaks coming from under a gas key.
At one time Bushmaster BCG's were notorious for carrier key getting loose. They weren't staked hard enough. The solution was simple: using a center punch and a hammer to go over staking marks on a new carrier as prevention. Carrier key can be re-tightened and re-staked as well without any parts needed to be replaced.
HOWEVER, once the key is staked in, no torque should be applied, it can only weaken the staking.
What you’re referring to is “field staking” and should only be done from the top down on a gas key unless you support both sides of the gas key while using a punch and a hammer. Smacking an unsupported gas key from the side can cause undue stress on the fastener and snap it inside the carrier. That’s why a jig like the MOACKS is the preferred method of staking.
You can do this to top or side staking marks. Bushmaster were actually side staking marks. Your point about using support is a moot point. How else are you going to stake it.
I’m just letting people know to not just smack the crap out of their gas key with a punch and hammer and break their parts without supporting it properly. Cause it’s the wrong way to do it, it’s not moot.
That's like saying one shouldn't write on a hanging unsupported sheet of paper, because one can rip it. Obviously one would use a hard surface to write on.
I’m not sure how clarifying something for someone reading this who might not know what is the correct way to do it is a bad thing? It’s also obviously my previous statement has to be made because there’s videos from Rock River Arms who do the exact thing I’m talking about. They’re idiots! I’m just being thorough and making sure anyone that reads these comments knows the proper way to do something.
You don’t have to perform the test if you feel that your gas key is adequate. If you want to check the gas key for failure points, than go for it. If you have a gas key with some really poor staking, it won’t be ruining it since there no displaced metal pushed into the fasteners to get ruined. At that point, reuse the gas key since it’s not an issue at all. Always have a new gas key, in-lb torque wrench, OCKS fasteners, gas key staking tool like MOACKS, gas key sealant like Loctite 620 sleeve retainer on hand to replace the gas key that didn’t meet the standards. The most you should reverse the gas key is 30in-lbs for a test. Also for the new gas key before installing it, you can true it and make sure it’s level by very lightly running it across a fine flat wet stone with oil to remove any high spots. You’re not really able to make level the section of the carrier where the gas key installs. The sealant is to fill any other slight gaps that will cause gas inefficiencies between the two surfaces. You do not want to take much off. Removing too much material from the bottom of the gas key will lower the deck surface and cause it to be misaligned with the gas tube.
The advice I give comes from very vetted sources. I don’t just reply to someone’s comment saying “bad advice” and then have barely an information to back it up like you did before arguing how there is nothing better than “Mil-Spec” bcg. My information comes from a master gunsmith who I would bet has personally had more AR’s come across their bench than anyone else in the entire forum. This reverse gas key test alone has been performed on over 8,000 AR’s and he has had approximately 11,000 AR’s go across his bench in total. Has trained numerous PD’s, across the United States, U.S. Marshals, Border and Customs, U.S. Secret Service, and multiple firearm manufacturers including product development with Forward Controls Design. Stop giving bad advice.
Actually the method in your picture, while not the best, should still work if the screws are properly torqued. Longwinded inane drivel is not a substitute for sound mechanical aptitude. A man should know his strengths and his weaknesses. Sorry I have to do this to you, but you are asking for it. Most people here are mechanically inclined and can see through this.
Wrong again, no surprise though. Again you say long winded but provide nothing where I’m wrong. I know my strengths and weaknesses, you clearly don’t. I’ve provided information to back up anything I have said. That gas key in the video is not supported at all, the only thing keeping that gas key from moving when attempting to stake it is the fasteners only. The carrier is only held in the vise, so any and all extra energy that is being applied by the punch that isn’t displacing metal is attempting to shear those gas key fasteners laterally. You stated before that people would use common sense with your hard surface paper writing analogy when referring to staking an unsupported gas key (like what is done in that video). Now your back tracking and saying doing it that way is fine. Make up your mind and don’t change your position. You’re either saying it’s ok to use a hammer and punch on an unsupported gas key or not?
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
The MOACKS is a very nice tool. I was generously lent a set from @cgrutt earlier this year to do some assembly work for my brothers on a couple rifle kits they bought and the BCG's needed to be assembled complete. I've been a mechanic for over 20 years, I personally like to have a good, proper tool to do most jobs.
Lack of mechanical aptitude and lack of attention to detail go hand in hand.
He is placing the punch at an angle plus the key is captured in the recess, but even if this wasn't the case, the screws are are big enough to take it and it's not that much of an impact.
He is placing the punch at an angle plus the key is captured in the recess, but even if this wasn't the case, the screws are are big enough to take it and it's not that much of an impact.
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