NY and CT compliant "Other Firearm" Delta Level Defense.

[OnSight Firearms Training]

These are onsale at several NY gun shops. They are NY compliant.
If you are interested check out the website:

CT4-2A OTHER FIREARM - DELTA LEVEL DEFENSE

Picked one up last week, it is all that you want it to be! Amazing.

 

[stuck in ny]

Here we go again.

 

[nyenthusiast]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly makes these compliant? I’ve read through the information available on DLD’s website and I’m still a bit perplexed.

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Edwardteach72

Thoughts?

 

[GOYABEAN]

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly makes these compliant? I’ve read through the information available on DLD’s website and I’m still a bit perplexed.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and read the "OTHER FIREARM" description.
This is just like the Mossberg Shockwave and the Remington Tac-14 in it's description as per the ATF of not being a rifle or a pistol.
They are for sale at Adaptive Shooting Sports in Pawling: Adaptive Shooting Sports Home

Ulster Firearms in Ulster, NY, and also at R.I.S.E. in Pearl River, NY.

I picked one up last week. It is awesome.

 

[Marine Cpl]

In the interest of discussion, what's to stop a DA from charging someone as having an unregistered Assault Weapon in a pistol configuration?

You. It's not a pistol.

They. It's a pistol with a "Pistol" arm brace attached to it that has the capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip, weighs more that 50 ounces, has a barrel shroud that completely encircles the barrel, and has a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand. Section 22 C of Penal law 265 describes exactly what you have here.

You. But it's not a pistol.

They. It is.

You. But the ATF says it's a firearm and not a pistol.

They. We say it's a pistol. Our law says it is and describes exactly what you have.

You. But you don't have a definition of pistol.

They. We don't need to. We describe what an Assault pistol is in our law. Your gun has all the things we say are an Assault Pistol.

You. But what about all those shotguns that aren't shotguns that are sold as firearms. Are those illegal too?

They. No. Our definition of shotgun doesn't fit those firearms in question because our definition of shotgun says that it has to be designed to be fired from the shoulder. We have no such definition for a pistol but what we do have is a definition for what makes an assault pistol.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

In the interest of discussion, what's to stop a DA from charging someone as having an unregistered Assault Weapon in a pistol configuration?

You. It's not a pistol.

They. It's a pistol with a pistol brace that has the capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip, weighs more that 50 ounces, has a barrel shroud, and has a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand.

You. But it's not a pistol.

They. It is.

You. But the ATF says it's a firearm.

They. We say it's a pistol. Our law says it is.

You. But you don't have a definition of pistol.

They. We don't need to. We describe what an Assault pistol is in our law.

Yeap, what IF.

IF

IF

What IF the world ends tomorrow.
ATF declares it not a pistol or rifle.
The same thing that stops local DA from arresting everyone that bought a Mossberg Shockwave or a Remington Tac-14.
It's not a pistol it's not a short barrel shotgun.
You would think that the manufacturer, coming from CT, and having already sold 300+ of these in NY, and the product being for sale in several NY gun shops, this might have been addressed. Well..... some people would think it might have.

 

[togmaster]

So which caliber so I get?

 

[Airborneguy]

Someone will learn the hard way on these types of “firearms” one day.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

So which caliber so I get?

I got the 556/223 in OD Green.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

Someone will learn the hard way on these types of “firearms” one day.

No one needs more than 10 rounds anyway. Right?

 

[nyenthusiast]

If I can find a dealer in my area that will accept the transfer, this might turn in to a “shut up and take my money” situation in a hurry. I can understand the over abundance of caution some people are approaching this with. We’ve seen other company’s introduce so called NY compliant options, only to find out later they might not be. It’s not like there’s a lot of clear guidance on what qualifies as good to go here. If we make the wrong call there are serious consequences to face potentially. How much are these “others” going for?

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

If I can find a dealer in my area that will accept the transfer, this might turn in to a “shut up and take my money” situation in a hurry. I can understand the over abundance of caution some people are approaching this with. We’ve seen other company’s introduce so called NY compliant options, only to find out later they might not be. It’s not like there’s a lot of clear guidance on what qualifies as good to go here. If we make the wrong call there are serious consequences to face potentially. How much are these “others” going for?

MSRP is $1599.
I had mine transferred thru L&L Sports in Harrison, NY. (by Rye, Mamaroneck, New Rochelle, etc., not far from the Throggs Neck Bridge)

You can buy them direct at:

Adaptive Shooting Sports in Pawling
R.I.S.E. in Pearl River
Ulster Firearms in Ulster
and a few other places.

 

[stuck in ny]

Have an leo except from the snake act force a ruling if he can sell it or not.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yeap, what IF.

IF

IF

What IF the world ends tomorrow.
ATF declares it not a pistol or rifle.
The same thing that stops local DA from arresting everyone that bought a Mossberg Shockwave or a Remington Tac-14.
It's not a pistol it's not a short barrel shotgun.
You would think that the manufacturer, coming from CT, and having already sold 300+ of these in NY, and the product being for sale in several NY gun shops, this might have been addressed. Well..... some people would think it might have.

I remember an incident in Albion where a FFL sold rifles with standard, unmodified bullet buttons installed. Someone did something stupid and they made everyone turn them in to the shop to get the bullet button epoxied.

Another incident (can't remember where but some guy posted here) bought a rifle with the Tier 5 bolt interrupter installed that converts it to manually operated. The FFL later called all who bought those rifles to come back and have the Tier 5 removed and the magazine fixed instead.

Things can happen or they may not. It may be worth it to someone and not worth it to another.

 

[Airborneguy]

No one needs more than 10 rounds anyway. Right?

That’s what Andy says and he’s the one who wrote the law.

Bottom line is that I’m all about non-complaince. I’m going to tell it like it is though when someone claims non-compliant firearms are legal because that’s how uniformed people end up in trouble.

“But, but, they said on the forum...”

 

[Exonautic]

State: "being sold in NY"
me: Time to go build my own.

 

[Doc8404]

That website sucks.
Even @Bullet Guy has a better one.
Not much though

 

[Calculon]

State: "being sold in NY"
me: Time to go build my own.

Why not? Should be able to build the exact same thing according to ATF determination

 

[Exonautic]

Why not? Should be able to build the exact same thing according to ATF determination

exactly. I always prefer to build my own ARs compared to buying a premade one because then i know what's going into it.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Why not? Should be able to build the exact same thing according to ATF determination

Are you a manufacturer per ATF? An "other" has to be "manufactured" as an other. Building an AR from parts =/= "manufacturing" (yet, thank God).

I am not a gun lawyer but I don't think this is the way this works.

So if I understand correctly the idea here is that as other, this thing is neither a pistol nor a long gun nor a nasty NFA SBR.

That's great as far as it goes.

I don't see how it's not impacted by unSAFE but it's been a long time since I read the actual text. At minimum I would think the mag would have to be fixed.

You guys know this stuff better than me but 1600 bucks is a lot of money for "maybe... kinda."

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Are you a manufacturer per ATF? An "other" has to be "manufactured" as an other. Building an AR from parts =/= "manufacturing" (yet, thank God).

I am not a gun lawyer but I don't think this is the way this works.

So if I understand correctly the idea here is that as other, this thing is neither a pistol nor a long gun nor a nasty NFA SBR.

That's great as far as it goes.

I don't see how it's not impacted by unSAFE but it's been a long time since I read the actual text. At minimum I would think the mag would have to be fixed.

You guys know this stuff better than me but 1600 bucks is a lot of money for "maybe... kinda."

“Civilans” can “make “ their own guns. It is only “illegal” (non 07) for ffl to make em. Go figure.

 

[BDinPutnam]

“Civilans” can “make “ their own guns. It is only “illegal” (non 07) for ffl to make em. Go figure.

Thanks @Bullet Guy. I think I see the source of my confusion, kind of, which mostly had to do with "definitions" that don't exist (stemming from the company's website mostly, and in part this thread).

 

[MikeyCNY]

MSRP is $1599.
I had mine transferred thru L&L Sports in Harrison, NY. (by Rye, Mamaroneck, New Rochelle, etc., not far from the Throggs Neck Bridge)

You can buy them direct at:

Adaptive Shooting Sports in Pawling
R.I.S.E. in Pearl River
Ulster Firearms in Ulster
and a few other places.

I was sorta maybe interested until you mentioned the price. Good golly.

I do admire the ingenuity at finding loopholes for stupid laws though...

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

I was sorta maybe interested until you mentioned the price. Good golly.

I do admire the ingenuity at finding loopholes for stupid laws though...

It aint cheap but its top quality. Normally Id would build my own....(i mean I WOULD NOT, because Im in New York and that would violate the "SAFE" Act...),
but this thing is really well squared away. It is a solid piece of machinery, no. cheap shit parts. Tight headspace. As someone who has been buying, building, repairing and shooting ARs for 20 years, I'm impressed.
I've seen other "AR" type rifles go for $2K or more, and I'd rather have this one, just based on the build quality alone.

 

[nyenthusiast]

Here’s another point in regards to compliance. Wouldn’t the shops selling these as good to go for NY, be taking a substantial risk, we’re that not the case?

 

[BDinPutnam]

Ok, I'm just going to step on my own dick if I must. And if I look stupid, fine, someone make me feel better about these bullshit laws.

What is an "other firearm"? I've never seen that.

I've seen:

"Other" on a 4473 (unbuilt lower receiver)
"Firearm" (see ATF guidance on Shockwave and TAC14, eg)

There is a lot of odd shit going on on that website not least the bit where they are claiming to have the a-OK from both CT and NY in the same sentence and set of definitions.

The Mossberg Shockwave and Remington TAC14 are "firearms" under ATF interpretation.

Normally Id would build my own....(i mean I WOULD NOT, because Im in New York and that would violate the "SAFE" Act...)

Now I know I'm confused. You think you can buy it but not build it?

 

[Exonautic]

Ok, I'm just going to step on my own dick if I must. And if I look stupid, fine, someone make me feel better about these bullshit laws.

What is an "other firearm"? I've never seen that.

I've seen:

"Other" on a 4473 (unbuilt lower receiver)
"Firearm" (see ATF guidance on Shockwave and TAC14, eg)

There is a lot of odd shit going on on that website not least the bit where they are claiming to have the a-OK from both CT and NY in the same sentence and set of definitions.

The Mossberg Shockwave and Remington TAC14 are "firearms" under ATF interpretation.



Now I know I'm confused. You think you can buy it but not build it?

If you can buy it on a 4473 with no nfa paperwork. Than you can build it yourself. This is an other, not in the sense of an aow but similar to a lower receiver, in that it doesn't fit into any definitions. This is why it's legal. Because in the absence of a state definition the federal definition takes hold. And this gun has no matching description on either state or federal level. There for it is just an other that you can own just as if it was just a lower receiver.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

Ok, I'm just going to step on my own dick if I must. And if I look stupid, fine, someone make me feel better about these bullshit laws.

What is an "other firearm"? I've never seen that.

I've seen:

"Other" on a 4473 (unbuilt lower receiver)
"Firearm" (see ATF guidance on Shockwave and TAC14, eg)

There is a lot of odd shit going on on that website not least the bit where they are claiming to have the a-OK from both CT and NY in the same sentence and set of definitions.

The Mossberg Shockwave and Remington TAC14 are "firearms" under ATF interpretation.



Now I know I'm confused. You think you can buy it but not build it?

I can build, buy, whatever....but you know Id never....ever do that under the SAFE Act. (wink).