NY compliant "Other Firearm"

[tootoothree]

Hi all,

I haven't been able to find any solid information on this topic, and most of the threads relating to it are about a year old.

The items being sold by local FFL dealers are listed as "other firearms," similar to the CT4-2A. Dealer and manufacturer both stated that these are fully compliant as they do not fall under the rifle, pistol, or shotgun categorizations. I want to get one, but am concerned about whether or not these have formally been signed-off on by any of the powers that be in NYS or NYSP. Has there been any formal approval of these configs similar to what the NJ State Police provided for the same "guns"?

 

[Chevusa]

but am concerned about whether or not these have formally been signed-off on by any of the powers that be in NYS or NYSP.

If they weren't legal they would not be sold by the FFL. They have more to lose than you do. Proceed on. There is no "list".

 

[Marine Cpl]

If they weren't legal they would not be sold by the FFL. They have more to lose than you do. Proceed on. There is no "list".

NY Police Seize Records for ‘Bullet Button’ AR Customers

A New York gun shop owner was forced to turn over customer records to the New York State Police last

www.personaldefenseworld.com

 

[Chevusa]

NY Police Seize Records for ‘Bullet Button’ AR Customers

A New York gun shop owner was forced to turn over customer records to the New York State Police last

www.personaldefenseworld.com

Firearm owners charged = 0

1 unique situation in a fast moving point in history with new laws. If it's for sale by the FFL proceed on. You're covered.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And let’s not forget all those gun shops that sold the reformation.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

If they weren't legal they would not be sold by the FFL. They have more to lose than you do. Proceed on. There is no "list".

Not exactly true. FFL's can get things we cannot and I can tell you that sometimes confusion exists between them and their distributors. For instance, they could order the wrong "compliant" variant of a given gun by mistake or be sent the wrong model by mistake, thinking it was compliant for NY when it was the CA version and potentially sell it to customers, in good faith mind you, not realizing it was the wrong model.

 

[Chevusa]

Not exactly true. FFL's can get things we cannot and I can tell you that sometimes confusion exists between them and their distributors. For instance, they could order the wrong "compliant" variant of a given gun by mistake, thinking it was compliant for NY when it was the CA version.

Well it's up to them to comply and only sell you or me what is legal for them to do so. If we were making up a hypothetical situation and you were sold a gun you shouldn't have by an FFL you would have an awfully good defense that you were misled by the FFL, and how would you know it was illegal when you accepted a legal transfer and complied with the process to obtain it. That would be on the FFL. They would probably lose their license and be fined/imprisoned. Like I said, they have more to loose than us. If it's for sale, proceed on. Unless it's blatantly obvious. Like a machine gun.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And let’s not also forget all the gun shops that refuse to sell legal items because they thought it was illegal. So saying that they are legal scholars is wrong. We had an FFL here sell guns with glued on muzzle devices on 14.5 inch barrels. But anyway...

OP. You can buy whatever you want from a gun shop. Just know that a cop can arrest you for having an unregistered A.R. pistol with a fore grip on it and you will have to defend yourself saying that it isn't a pistol.

I can add a fore grip to an A.R. pistol with an 11.5 inch barrel and it’s the same gun. Keep that in mind.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Well it's up to them to comply and only sell you or me what is legal for them to do so. If we were making up a hypothetical situation and you were sold a gun you shouldn't have by an FFL you would have an awfully good defense that you were misled by the FFL, and how would you know it was illegal when you accepted a legal transfer and complied with the process to obtain it. That would be on the FFL. They would probably lose their license and be fined/imprisoned. Like I said, they have more to loose than us. If it's for sale, proceed on. Unless it's blatantly obvious. Like a machine gun.

Well yes, if it was a legit transfer then it would ultimately be traced back to the ffl and the mistake would be discovered and hopefully things would be righted, but probably not without the buyer being dragged through some legal bs with all the associated fees and headaches, reimbursement not withstanding.

 

[tootoothree]

Well part of the confusion and concern on my end is that some manufacturers, Dark Storm for example, no longer sell others in NY based on a state troopers response to a Facebook post made by a LI gun shop. So some shops and manufacturers say they're compliant, some do not and won't sell them in NY.

Anyone aware of a case law on the matter, because right now it just seems like FFLs, NYSP, and us buyers are operating off of varying interpretations of the law?

 

[Chevusa]

Well yes, if it was a legit transfer then it would ultimately be traced back to the ffl and the mistake would be discovered and hopefully things would be righted, but probably not without the buyer being dragged through some legal bs with all the associated fees and headaches, reimbursement not withstanding.

Maybe. I guess you never know. However that wasn't the case in the article @Marine Cpl cited. And that was hundreds of cases.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Well part of the confusion and concern on my end is that some manufacturers, Dark Storm for example, no longer sell others in NY based on a state troopers response to a Facebook post made by a LI gun shop. So some shops and manufacturers say they're compliant, some do not and won't sell them in NY.

Anyone aware of a case law on the matter, because right now it just seems like FFLs, NYSP, and us buyers are operating off of varying interpretations of the law?

For starters the NYS police don't make determinations. They enforce the law. It's the legislature that defines what is legal and what is not when it pertains to a law they pass. The constitutionality of such a law is another matter.

 

[tootoothree]

For starters the NYS police don't make determinations. They enforce the law. It's the legislature that defines what is legal and what is not when it pertains to a law they pass. The constitutionality of such a law is another matter.

So what office can I reach out to for clarification? Not trying to be a pain in the ass, but honestly interested in finding a definitive answer.

 

[Chevusa]

So what office can I reach out to for clarification? Not trying to be a pain in the ass, but honestly interested in finding a definitive answer.

Lol. None. Welcome to NY.

 

[tootoothree]

Oye....what a cluster.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

So what office can I reach out to for clarification? Not trying to be a pain in the ass, but honestly interested in finding a definitive answer.

Unfortunately you have to wade the myriad of state and federal laws that govern all of this. Something that is legal federally may not be legal on the state level. Here in NY, lawmakers seem to have being vague down to a science. They won't be clear when clarity is what they are trying to avoid.

 

[Chevusa]

Have you asked the seller for clarification? Put it on them. It's their sale. My Shockwave which is an "other" came with a letter from the ATF stating how and why it was legal. Of corse that doesn't mean anything in NY. I was comfortable that a legitimate FFL was selling them to the public. Wouldn't give it a second thought.

 

[tootoothree]

I already purchased from the dealer on Saturday, showed a buddy who claimed it would be considered an assault weapon, started doing a whole bunch research coming up with conflicting information, spoke with the FFL who said to call Albany SP since the others weren't defined in the penal cover and therefore legal, spoke with a SP Sgt who said they "may be considered" assault weapons. It's like the shittiest game of Clue!

 

[Chevusa]

I already purchased from the dealer on Saturday, showed a buddy who claimed it would be considered an assault weapon, started doing a whole bunch research coming up with conflicting information, spoke with the FFL who said to call Albany SP since the others weren't defined in the penal cover and therefore legal, spoke with a SP Sgt who said they "may be considered" assault weapons. It's like the shittiest game of Clue!

You're fine. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The FFL sold it to you. You didn't get it form a guy in a dark alley.

 

[Hector Heco]

Hi all,

I haven't been able to find any solid information on this topic, and most of the threads relating to it are about a year old.

The items being sold by local FFL dealers are listed as "other firearms," similar to the CT4-2A. Dealer and manufacturer both stated that these are fully compliant as they do not fall under the rifle, pistol, or shotgun categorizations. I want to get one, but am concerned about whether or not these have formally been signed-off on by any of the powers that be in NYS or NYSP. Has there been any formal approval of these configs similar to what the NJ State Police provided for the same "guns"?

Check out POF and Delta Level Defense

 

[Marine Cpl]

Have you asked the seller for clarification? Put it on them. It's their sale. My Shockwave which is an "other" came with a letter from the ATF stating how and why it was legal. Of corse that doesn't mean anything in NY. I was comfortable that a legitimate FFL was selling them to the public. Wouldn't give it a second thought.

The Shockwave is a little different because it’s clearly not a shotgun or rifle due to having no stock and it isn’t a pistol due to not being rifled. You actually have NY law to back you up.

The AR Other however resembles an an AW Pistol in NY law. You can actually be charged for it. If I had an AR pistol with an 11.5 inch barrel in my trunk and you had this OTHER also in my trunk, it would be the same exact gun. An officer would not be able to differentiate the two.

You would have to dance the dance in the courtroom after we both got arrested. With the Shockwave however, you can quote actual laws to a jury showing why it isn’t a shotgun.

 

[Mosinitis]

Too much paranoia in this thread.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Too much paranoia in this thread.

Not enough toilet paper.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Too much paranoia in this thread.

Has nothing to do with paranoia. It has to do if you have the will, time, and money to defend against it. Some have it. Other don’t. Choose whatever you deem you can manage.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Not to hijack but, fuck Dark Stain.

That's all I got. Surprised no one else mentioned it previously.

Carry on.

 

[Mosinitis]

Not enough toilet paper.

Toilet paper is for the newbs. Experienced gun owners wear diapers.

 

[Mosinitis]

Has nothing to do with paranoia. It has to do if you have the will, time, and money to defend against it. Some have it. Other don’t. Choose whatever you deem you can manage.

It's definitely a paranoia, because your fears don't have any basis in reality.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Toilet paper is for the newbs. Experienced gun owners wear diapers.

Haha! Diapers are for chumps with no mechanical aptitude who would be compliasant in wearing their own shit thinking they are doing the world a favor. I on the other hand plan to follow this genius...

 

[maverick52]

Technically Legal is the best kind of Legal. it really comes down to 3 things. these aren't interpretations. they are letter of the law rules.

1. ⁠The ATF defines a rifle (and shotguns) as a firearm built to be fired from the shoulder(stock). a pistol brace is not a stock, and therefore not designed to be shouldered and not a rifle. shouldering it does not change this classification.
2. ⁠The ATF defines a pistol as a firearm built to be fired with one hand. adding a vertical grip would mean its built to be fired with 2 hands, so its not a pistol.
3. ⁠IF the over all length is greater than 26" its not easily concealable, so its not an aow, which would require a tax stamp that a NY resident would never get approved.

These 3 points should help you understand what an other is. which is kinda confusing because its more about what an other is not. its not a rifle, its not a pistol, its not an aow, so it falls into the "other firearm" catagory. the best part is that because the Safe Act only refers to rifles, shotguns and pistol, and an other is non of those, it doesn't actually apply. this means you can have a brake, removable mags, everything else as long as it doesn't interfere with the 3 points above.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

2. ⁠The ATF defines a pistol as a firearm built to be fired with one hand. adding a vertical grip would mean its built to be fired with 2 hands, so its not a pistol.

Yeah, but that's crazy because I and everyone else who owns pistols fires them with both hands. Even cops.