Outdated 2nd Amendment

[Magnus]

"It ultimately doesn’t matter whether the gun was originally acquired through legal or illegal means — it was easy to find and easy to use. That’s the price our society pays for stubbornly staying true to the outdated Second Amendment."


Editorial: Sunday's shooting part of unending cycle, for now - The Daily Illini

I get very angry after reading these articles. You want common sense laws to work, put the actual criminal in jail.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The comments should make you feel a bit better.

 

[Criticalt]

Ten years ago my 6 year old cousin was killed in a car accident by a drunk driver.
Why cant car drivers understand the need to ban cars? How many more children must die frim senseless car violence.
It doesnt matter that the unlicesed driver was drunk, it was clearly the cars fault.
If this driver was not able to gain possession of a car, my cousin would be alive.
Until we ban every conceivable dangerous item, people will continue to die, stop the madness.
Dont even get me started on swimming pools!

 

[Magnus]

Dont even get me started on swimming pools!

Those things have to be regulated out of circulation. High capacity pools, scary attachments, draining devices, ban it all!

 

[Cleck]

I just don't read stuff like that because people like that can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! They will not stop, ever, until the 2nd Amendment is dead!

 

[NirvanaFan]

So, gun owners are to blame because some idiot felon was released and shot a few people? That's not the way the world works. The people to blame are
A) the shooter
B) the justice system

I guess you could include the shooter's parents/role models growing up, but that stems farther back than this incident.

 

[Airborneguy]

Hopefully whoever wrote than gets hit by a car today.

 

[Celt]

Edit: let me preface by saying that I genuinely think the 2nd Amendment is worded exactly as it should be. My intent of the post below is a counter argument for any anti gun person that would say it should be updated.

The 2a should be updated to put any doubt to rest among the antis. Here is how i would phrase it.

2nd Amendment: The People (legal citizens of the USA) are the militia, and the militia is necessary to secure The People from a tyrannical government. The People should be well armed, and trained; the right of The People to own, and carry weapons for self defense and in defense of maintaining a free state is a right granted by birth; this right is not subject change, and it is not the place of any government body to interfere with this individual right.

 

[Magnus]

The 2a should be updated to put any doubt to rest among the antis. Here is how i would phrase it.

2nd Amendment: The People (legal citizens of the USA) are the militia, and the militia is necessary to secure The People from a tyrannical government. The People should be well armed, and trained; the right of The People to own, and carry weapons for self defense and in defense of maintaining a free state is a right granted by birth; this right is not subject change, and it is not the place of any government body to interfere with this individual right.

You forgot to add: FUAC.

 

[Airborneguy]

Get rid of the militia reference all together. Keep it simple, libbies are dense:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That is all that is necessary.

 

[Celt]

Get rid of the militia reference all together. Keep it simple, libbies are dense:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That is all that is necessary.

Good point, but they also dont grasp the keep and bear part so own and carry is more clear. And I dont think they realize arms are all handheld weapons.

And while we are updating it we need to "nail home" the "shall not be infringed" part. That needs to be more clearly explained and emphasized since politicians have been infringing, and courts upholding COUNTLESS infringements.

Then youd have to update your tattoo though.

In all reality, its worded great imho and truly doesnt need to be "rephrased". But, If Ever I was having a conversation with a lefty that said it should be updated or amended, that would be my response.

 

[Catskillkid]

Hey, while we're at it let's get rid of that pesky 1st Amendment too. A lot of that stuff coming out of college campuses and the BLM movement is really upsetting to me. Not to mention the horrific thing I read on internet forums (especially forums dedicated to gun rights in New York). Who will stop the madness!

 

[Acer-m14]

In the 2a the training should be free with minimum 1000 rounds of free ammo paied by the left...

 

[Celt]

In the 2a the training should be free with minimum 1000 rounds of free ammo paied by the left...

Along that line of thinking and with the original wording of the Second Amendment, the government should subsidize training , ammunition and arms for any citizen who wants it.

I've mentioned it many times in the past, but if the government really wanted to make a difference then they would start with education. And from there, all training classes that anybody attends should be reimbursed or at the least tax deductible.

 

[chrisc1122]

The comments should make you feel a bit better.

They do, and that is the problem. Too many folks thinking problems like these can be fixed with a pen.

At least I can sleep better knowing I am on the high road!

All this can be fixed by......

OH, never mind

 

[NirvanaFan]

The 2a should be updated to put any doubt to rest among the antis. Here is how i would phrase it.

2nd Amendment: The People (legal citizens of the USA) are the militia, and the militia is necessary to secure The People from a tyrannical government. The People should be well armed, and trained; the right of The People to own, and carry weapons for self defense and in defense of maintaining a free state is a right granted by birth; this right is not subject change, and it is not the place of any government body to interfere with this individual right.

What about legal resident aliens? If it is an individual right granted by birth, they should have the right too.

 

[Celt]

What about legal resident aliens? If it is an individual right granted by birth, they should have the right too.

Not sure on that. It's a right granted by birth but only for people that belong to this country as other countries have their own rules. I suppose if somebody is a legal resident there should be some considerations for that but as I said I haven't given it much thought so I'm not sure how that would work. I suppose if they have the right to own firearms now then that would remain the same.

 

[4excal]

Get rid of the militia reference all together. Keep it simple, libbies are dense:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That is all that is necessary.

Completely agree. The "Militia" statement always made me chuckle. In this day and age there isn't one person in our Country or this forum that rose against the tyranny of our recent government in the form of being an armed militant. Some of us carry daily with disregard to who says where we we can and can't carry..but that's about as close as it gets to us and the good ole "revolutionary" days lol. We'd be thrown in Guantanimo for terrorism and laid to waste by the next Hurricane dare we got two miles of the White House in the form of a Militia..even if we were in the 100% correct and covered by our "God" given rights..and a long document called a Declaration.

 

[GOPerfect]

Okay, I will chime in. The Second Amendment, in the way it is written is more than fine, again, it is Perfect.

They knew what they were doing, they knew what they writing. They knew that someday there would be morons running our Government. That is way they added the perfect end, Shall NOT be infringed. How better can that be stated?

verb, infringed, infringing.
1. to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress

We do not have a gun problem, we do not have a shooting problem.

We have problems with crime and people. These are what need to be dealt with!

 

[NirvanaFan]

Not sure on that. It's a right granted by birth but only for people that belong to this country as other countries have their own rules. I suppose if somebody is a legal resident there should be some considerations for that but as I said I haven't given it much thought so I'm not sure how that would work. I suppose if they have the right to own firearms now then that would remain the same.

It's a natural right (stemming from self defense) and isn't granted by the government, right? We would have the right whether we had our government or not. If you believe that, then everyone should have those rights, no matter where they are born and where they are currently living. The people in China should have the right just like we do, because the government doesn't grant the rights. I would go as far as saying that illegal aliens should have the right to bear arms since border jumping is a misdemeanor (I believe).

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

This is the beginning of a new and vocal wave of loud protesting, incoherent whinning and illogical statements that are all anti 2nd ammendment.

You can thank public education, pop culture and the mainstream media for distorting what the 2nd ammendment means to the masses of sheep. Unfortunately this is by design.

Don't blame the criminal. Blame us for allowing him to be a criminal.

Uggghhhhhggghhh that logic sucks.

 

[Celt]

It's a natural right (stemming from self defense) and isn't granted by the government, right? We would have the right whether we had our government or not. If you believe that, then everyone should have those rights, no matter where they are born and where they are currently living. The people in China should have the right just like we do, because the government doesn't grant the rights. I would go as far as saying that illegal aliens should have the right to bear arms since border jumping is a misdemeanor (I believe).

Good point, although since our government is designed to preserve our rights i think it should be reserved for people that are here legally only.

 

[Celt]

This is the beginning of a new and vocal wave of loud protesting, incoherent whinning and illogical statements that are all anti 2nd ammendment.

You can thank public education, pop culture and the mainstream media for distorting what the 2nd ammendment means to the masses of sheep. Unfortunately this is by design.

Don't blame the criminal. Blame us for allowing him to be a criminal.

Uggghhhhhggghhh that logic sucks.

The era of no personal accountability, and it stems from the top down. That is a part of a socialist nation.

Blame "society" and come up with MORE social agencies, more laws, and less freedom to try and fix it.

 

[2Dead]

Get rid of the militia reference all together. Keep it simple, libbies are dense:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That is all that is necessary.

I wouldn't leave it at just "shall not be infringed" though. I would add " shall not be infringed, restricted, or otherwise denied." Yes they all mean the same thing but saying it once isn't getting the point across.

 

[GOPerfect]

^^ Absolutely. I see this attitude each and every day I go to work.

 

[2Dead]

Along that line of thinking and with the original wording of the Second Amendment, the government should subsidize training , ammunition and arms for any citizen who wants it.

I've mentioned it many times in the past, but if the government really wanted to make a difference then they would start with education. And from there, all training classes that anybody attends should be reimbursed or at the least tax deductible.

I've always thought that safe storage laws shouldn't be mandated but encouraged by being tax deductible as well. You're not going to force someone who doesn't want to to use one. You can help someone who wants to though. Carrot, not stick.

 

[NirvanaFan]

Good point, although since our government is designed to preserve our rights i think it should be reserved for people that are here legally only.

But, then someone else's natural rights are being taken away (over a non-violent felony). Should other natural rights like freedom of religion and privacy (unreasonable search and seizure) be denied to illegal aliens as well?

 

[Celt]

I agree, nothing regarding private gun ownership should be mandated by the government, however it should be encouraged. So if you want to lower your homeowners insurance or get tax write-offs, you could seek out training and any other things related to responsible firearm ownership. Doing this would get you points reduced from your income tax or even just flat-out be reimbursed.

 

[SigLady]

So, gun owners are to blame because some idiot felon was released and shot a few people? That's not the way the world works. The people to blame are
A) the shooter
B) the justice system

I guess you could include the shooter's parents/role models growing up, but that stems farther back than this incident.

Welcome to America, the land of shunning personal responsibility for anything. It's like a 2nd grade classroom- pass the blame.

 

[Celt]

But, then someone else's natural rights are being taken away (over a non-violent felony). Should other natural rights like freedom of religion and privacy (unreasonable search and seizure) be denied to illegal aliens as well?

You bring up excellent points, but I do believe as a country we need to have borders in order to preserve our way of life. Unfortunately Human Nature somewhat conflicts with our way of life here in this country. Humans by their very nature are driven to conquer and to rule for the sake of self-preservation and if we went so far as to have no borders in the world we would devolve rather than prosper.

What I think needs to happen is we need to revise our immigration policies to make it easier for people who want to become a part of our society to do so. And with that it would give them the protections of our natural rights that living in our country provides.