SERPA Rediscovered

[Chevusa]

I was looking through some pictures and saw a guy carrying his pistol in a Blackhawk SERPA holster earlier today.

That reminded me, I have a SERPA tucked away in a closet from years ago when I lived in Texas. I had pretty much forgotten about it. So I got it out and wiped it down with Ballistol and now it’s like brand new. I’ve sort of rediscovered it, and I really like it. The draw is super fast and smooth and I really like the active retention. It prevents someone from making a grab if you happen to print a little or just prevents it from jumping out during a struggle or other activities. I’m thinking about getting more for my other pistols.

I know there was some controversy about them stemming from someone using it improperly that shot themselves. I’ve never had an issue with my finger not being exactly where it should be. It has also come to light that the guy, Tex, wasn’t even using the SERPA, but another brand of holster. He has an interview where he says such.

I have a few Safariland ALS holsters, but I just like the SERPA better. It is much slimmer

Just curious because I know how popular they used to be. Do you or would you carry one?

 

[technicalgadget]

The retention button just happens to be in the wrong place where during a fast draw, can cause your trigger finger to slip onto the trigger and cause an AD. There’s a reason why a lot of instructors ban Serpa holsters from pistol classes.

I used to like them until an instructor showed me how they can be easily disabled with a handful of small pebbles dropped over the top of the holster causing your firearm to lockup tight inside the holster.

I would not use one on an open carry belt.

 

[dsdmmat]

The retention button just happens to be in the wrong place where during a fast draw, can cause your trigger finger to slip onto the trigger and cause an AD. There’s a reason why a lot of instructors ban Serpa holsters from pistol classes.

I used to like them until an instructor showed me how they can be easily disabled with a handful of small pebbles dropped over the top of the holster causing your firearm to lockup tight inside the holster.

I would not use one on an open carry belt.

Ok let’s look at the probability and severity of that situation:

probability of a handful of gravel getting into your holster on any Given day- I would say unlikely

severity of the handful of gravel locking your gun up in your holster - I would say catastrophic

so for risk Management purposes you come out with a medium risk.

to put that in perspective getting electrocuted from exposed wires because you left the covers off your outlets is a unlikely/ catastrophic event which is also a medium risk.

 

[Podmonkey]

Ok let’s look at the probability and severity of that situation:

probability of a handful of gravel getting into your holster on any Given day- I would say unlikely

severity of the handful of gravel locking your gun up in your holster - I would say catastrophic

so for risk Management purposes you come out with a medium risk.

to put that in perspective getting electrocuted from exposed wires because you left the covers off your outlets is a unlikely/ catastrophic event which is also a medium risk.

Any kind of competiton or training class that has you laying, rolling or crawling on the ground could potentially cause debris to lock up a SERPA, the chances are greater than unlikely I'd say. Roll of the dice everytime you hit the deck. The even bigger issue is the ND issue on the draw of which there are numerous documented cases of.
With superior alternatives that provide the same functionality I put the risk assessment of the SERPA as unacceptable.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Safariland > serpa..

The only place serpa belong is in the trash

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ok let’s look at the probability and severity of that situation:

probability of a handful of gravel getting into your holster on any Given day- I would say unlikely

severity of the handful of gravel locking your gun up in your holster - I would say catastrophic

so for risk Management purposes you come out with a medium risk.

to put that in perspective getting electrocuted from exposed wires because you left the covers off your outlets is a unlikely/ catastrophic event which is also a medium risk.

Ok so your risk managment conclusion is a MEDIUM. And that is an alright level of risk when it comes to life saving equipment?

Meh I have a medium chance of my holster completely locking up and not allowing me to draw my firearm yea thats good thats fair..

Sorry but I'll stick with mitigating as much risk as possible.

And if your risk managment put the serpa locking up at a "medium" I can only imagine how high it would put a Negligent discharge

 

[Elwood]

The retention button just happens to be in the wrong place where during a fast draw, can cause your trigger finger to slip onto the trigger and cause an AD. There’s a reason why a lot of instructors ban Serpa holsters from pistol classes.

I used to like them until an instructor showed me how they can be easily disabled with a handful of small pebbles dropped over the top of the holster causing your firearm to lockup tight inside the holster.

I would not use one on an open carry belt.

Um, no. If you have proper discipline on keeping your finger off the trigger then there’s no issue. I have one on my secondary duty belt and have used it for qualifying numerous times without problem. And unless you’re doing combat rolls at the range you shouldn’t be getting any debris in it. That’s operator error not a problem of the holster

 

[Edwardteach72]

Um, no. If you have proper discipline on keeping your finger off the trigger then there’s no issue. I have one on my secondary duty belt and have used it for qualifying numerous times without problem. And unless you’re doing combat rolls at the range you shouldn’t be getting any debris in it. That’s operator error not a problem of the holster

No its 100% the holster design and not the operator.

Here is a quick clip,

 

[fnfalguy]

some light reading on the serpa from FLETC.

 

[Elwood]

No its 100% the holster design and not the operator.

Here is a quick clip,

Anything can be fucked up and disabled with a handful of gravel and sand, not the holster to blame, don’t get shit in your holster, keep your gear clean and those problems disappear.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Anything can be fucked up and disabled with a handful of gravel and sand, not the holster to blame, don’t get shit in your holster, keep your gear clean and those problems disappear.

Imagine thinking these holsters are marketed for static ranges and not "duty" use. Yup keep them clean even if your going off on larping or actual duty.

And as you say anything can be fucked up and disabled, and yet I have not come across one single account of a safariland having this issue, neither from the ALS or GLS lines.

And to add to that, the multiple accounts of derpas getting locked up, it's a hard lock up and most people actually had to cut the holster apart to get the gun out, once those holsters go down they are down for good and are thrown away (which let's be real that's where they belong)

But take idk once again the Safariland both ALS and the GLS holsters, they can be user serviced, ie taken apart to clean (hey look at that keep your holster cleaned, you can actually do that with a Safariland and to a more detailed breakdown) and put back together. Or if in some random act of bad luck if the holster was to get locked up it can be taken down and put back together unlike a derpa that needs a dremel or something to cut it apart

 

[Elwood]

Imagine thinking these holsters are marketed for static ranges and not "duty" use. Yup keep them clean even if your going off on larping or actual duty.

And as you say anything can be fucked up and disabled, and yet I have not come across one single account of a safariland having this issue, neither from the ALS or GLS lines.

And to add to that, the multiple accounts of derpas getting locked up, it's a hard lock up and most people actually had to cut the holster apart to get the gun out, once those holsters go down they are down for good and are thrown away (which let's be real that's where they belong)

But take idk once again the Safariland both ALS and the GLS holsters, they can be user serviced, ie taken apart to clean (hey look at that keep your holster cleaned, you can actually do that with a Safariland and to a more detailed breakdown) and put back together. Or if in some random act of bad luck if the holster was to get locked up it can be taken down and put back together unlike a derpa that needs a dremel or something to cut it apart

Like I said, keep your gear clean, don’t roll around in the dirt, keep your fingers off the trigger and those problems go away. I would not recommend it for someone on active duty in the military but for you average plate shooter it’s fine till you roll around in the dirt or decide to Tex grebner yourself.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Like I said, keep your gear clean, don’t roll around in the dirt, keep your fingers off the trigger and those problems go away. I would not recommend it for someone on active duty in the military but for you average plate shooter it’s fine till you roll around in the dirt or decide to Tex grebner yourself.

Keep finger off trigger by using holster that almost forces a person to put their finger inside the trigger guard under stress.


Why do people defend subpar trash so hard

 

[BDinPutnam]

Like I said, keep your gear clean, don’t roll around in the dirt, keep your fingers off the trigger and those problems go away. I would not recommend it for someone on active duty in the military but for you average plate shooter it’s fine till you roll around in the dirt or decide to Tex grebner yourself.

"Dont roll around in dirt".

I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Elwood]

Why do people defend subpar trash so hard

Because it not a defect of the holster that someone lets it get packed with shit and has poor trigger discipline then can’t draw the gun or rockets a round into their own leg. Been using a Serpa for years and never had any issues, then again I keep my gear clean and finger off the trigger till ready to start shooting

 

[Edwardteach72]

Because it not a defect of the holster that someone lets it get packed with shit and has poor trigger discipline then can’t draw the gun or rockets a round into their own leg. Been using a Serpa for years and never had any issues, then again I keep my gear clean and finger off the trigger till ready to start shooting

Hahaha poor trigger discipline hahaha yea ok,

 

[Jsmegs77]

I prefer the middle-finger release of the Safariland GLS that my Kahr rides in. My trigger finger has one job and one job only. I have to admit, I was surprised to find out how polarizing the SERPA was...when I bought the GLS a friend had the SERPA and I played around with it and just decided it wasn't for me. Then I find out about AD's, training places banning it, and all this...

 

[Edwardteach72]

I prefer the middle-finger release of the Safariland GLS that my Kahr rides in. My trigger finger has one job and one job only. I have to admit, I was surprised to find out how polarizing the SERPA was...when I bought the GLS a friend had the SERPA and I played around with it and just decided it wasn't for me. Then I find out about AD's, training places banning it, and all this...

Other issue is many people refuse to look at safariland because they think it will cost to much. And that's why many people go to the derpa.

When in reality the Safariland Model 578 GLS Pro-Fit is only a few bucks more if and when it's more expensive... but the Pro-Fit can be used with a whole bunch of different guns with one holster.

Or then there is also the ALS choices and the newer 7ts or other 73xx models can be had for the same price or even less than the derpa, just saw a 73xx (not sure what one) for like $35

 

[Elwood]

Hahaha poor trigger discipline hahaha yea ok,

I’ve been waiting for years for one of my guns to go off all on its own without my finger having pulled the trigger, haven’t seen it happen yet.

I even yell at my G23 and tell it how worthless .40s&w is. Call it names like tactical Tupperware and it just sits there with a dumb look on the extractor.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I’ve been waiting for years for one of my guns to go off all on its own without my finger having pulled the trigger, haven’t seen it happen yet.

I even yell at my G23 and tell it how worthless .40s&w is. Call it names like tactical Tupperware and it just sits there with a dumb look on the extractor.

Imagine thinking everyone is saying that the guns go off without pulling the trigger. Man that would sound really stupid if we were actually saying your subpar holster actually facilitates your finger into the trigger guard increasing you likely hood of ...... pulling the trigger......

Damn that would be embarrassing to think that

 

[spat]

Um, no. If you have proper discipline on keeping your finger off the trigger then there’s no issue. I have one on my secondary duty belt and have used it for qualifying numerous times without problem. And unless you’re doing combat rolls at the range you shouldn’t be getting any debris in it. That’s operator error not a problem of the holster

I've never been in a car accident where a seat belt saved my life either. I suppose all the people wearing them are just wasting their time.

The vast majority of serpa owners will never have a problem. But you don't know of you're going to be in the 0.001% that does until it happens, or you throw the holster away.

If there weren't better alternatives, it might be worth the risk, but there are, so it isn't.

Saying your trigger discipline is good so you don't need to worry about the holster is like saying you never point your gun at anything you aren't willing to shoot so you don't need to worry about trigger discipline.

Any of the safety rules can "fail". If you've never caught yourself inadvertently violating one you either never touch your guns, or you're dishonest with yourself.

The whole point of the rules is that there are layers where there have to be multiple simultaneous failures before a catastrophic event.

This holster seriously increases the chances of violating one of the layers at a time when the others are also at their most vulnerable (during the draw).

Anyone who claims "they are safe because they never make mistakes" is probably the most dangerous person in the conversation.

 

[Elwood]

I've never been in a car accident where a seat belt saved my life either. I suppose all the people wearing them are just wasting their time.

The vast majority of serpa owners will never have a problem. But you don't know of you're going to be in the 0.001% that does until it happens, or you throw the holster away.

If there weren't better alternatives, it might be worth the risk, but there are, so it isn't.

Saying your trigger discipline is good so you don't need to worry about the holster is like saying you never point your gun at anything you aren't willing to shoot so you don't need to worry about trigger discipline.

Any of the safety rules can "fail". If you've never caught yourself inadvertently violating one you either never touch your guns, or you're dishonest with yourself.

The whole point of the rules is that there are layers where there have to be multiple simultaneous failures before a catastrophic event.

This holster seriously increases the chances of violating one of the layers at a time when the others are also at their most vulnerable (during the draw).

Anyone who claims "they are safe because they never make mistakes" is probably the most dangerous person in the conversation.

Or, I’ve learned to keep my finger straight when drawing my firearm and not curl it into the triggerguard like an idiot

 

[Edwardteach72]

Or, I’ve learned to keep my finger straight when drawing my firearm and not curl it into the triggerguard like an idiot

Go watch that video again.. I bet that guy says the same dumb thing as you just did.

Maybe get someone with a slow motion camera and a shot timer. Then video tape yourself drawing under some form of pressure and see what your finger does.

I will go out on a limb and say, first few times you will over exaggerate your trigger onto slide just to say look how good my discipline is but if you actuall did it the way you actuall draw especially under speed you may see something interesting

 

[Elwood]

Go watch that video again.. I bet that guy says the same dumb thing as you just did.

Maybe get someone with a slow motion camera and a shot timer. Then video tape yourself drawing under some form of pressure and see what your finger does.

I will go out on a limb and say, first few times you will over exaggerate your trigger onto slide just to say look how good my discipline is but if you actuall did it the way you actuall draw especially under speed you may see something interesting

You don’t need to be a high speed low drag operator to not shoot yourself in the leg, simply don’t put your finger on the trigger till ready to fire, it really is that simple, blaming a piece of equipment for poor trigger discipline is a crutch for user error.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You don’t need to be a high speed low drag operator to not shoot yourself in the leg, simply don’t put your finger on the trigger till ready to fire, it really is that simple, blaming a piece of equipment for poor trigger discipline is a crutch for user error.

Jesus are you dense? Did you watch the video.. the holster locking mechanism damn near forces you to put pressure down which can and eventual will cause your finger to go inside the trigger guard. And eventually cause someone to pull the trigger. It happens all the time.

But I guess people are to emotionally attached to a $30 plastic piece of shit they will make any excuses to try and say they are better and it "wOrKs FeR mE " nonsense

 

[Elwood]

Jesus are you dense? Did you watch the video.. the holster locking mechanism damn near forces you to put pressure down which can and eventual will cause your finger to go inside the trigger guard. And eventually cause someone to pull the trigger. It happens all the time.

But I guess people are to emotionally attached to a $30 plastic piece of shit they will make any excuses to try and say they are better and it "wOrKs FeR mE " nonsense

Not dense, just not buying the bullshit that it’s the holsters fault that someone shot themself by putting their finger into the trigger guard when they should not have.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Not dense, just not buying the bullshit that it’s the holsters fault that someone shot themself by putting their finger into the trigger guard when they should not have.

Yup not the holsters fault by putting the locking mechanism in direct relation to the trigger and uses the trigger finger and pressure from that finger to disengage..

Like this is actuall really simple, you dont even need the video that I'll take a guess you didnt watch, to understand that the design is a flaw and introduces unnecessary risk, especially as @spat mentioned there are better actually safe options, ones I even named

 

[Elwood]

Yup not the holsters fault by putting the locking mechanism in direct relation to the trigger and uses the trigger finger and pressure from that finger to disengage..

Like this is actuall really simple, you dont even need the video that I'll take a guess you didnt watch, to understand that the design is a flaw and introduces unnecessary risk, especially as @spat mentioned there are better actually safe options, ones I even named

I did watch it and don’t care, keep fingers off trigger and gun no go bang, that simple

 

[Edwardteach72]

I did watch it and don’t care, keep fingers off trigger and gun no go bang, that simple

Yup super simple, but then at the same time you try and defend a holster which is designed to well put your finger into the trigger guard and eventually pull the trigger..

1 of 2 things, you dont "train" as much or as hard as you claim, or 2 more dangerously you do and your finger has made it into the trigger guard more than once and your just gambling on when you ND

 

[Chevusa]

The retention button just happens to be in the wrong place where during a fast draw, can cause your trigger finger to slip onto the trigger and cause an AD. There’s a reason why a lot of instructors ban Serpa holsters from pistol classes.

I used to like them until an instructor showed me how they can be easily disabled with a handful of small pebbles dropped over the top of the holster causing your firearm to lockup tight inside the holster.

I would not use one on an open carry belt.

The military has used them for a decade in Afghanistan and Iraq without problems. We know the landscape over there. I understand what your saying and I acknowledge they could lock up if just the right pebble get into just the right spot, but I think that’s very unlikely to happen in my everyday life.