Speer Gold Dot Duty Rifle Ammo Question.

[SNORTHRUP1]

I was just curious if anyone has tried Speer Gold Dot Duty rifle ammo, and if so how it worked for them? I been wanting to try that load in my Remington 700P LTR .308, (20" barrel w/ 1 in 12" twist) but read a few posts online about how it was "plated" instead of jacketed due to it being a bonded bullet. I was just wondering if that means the "copper plating" is thin on the projectile?

 

[Podmonkey]

I belive that they are plated. I have a stock of the 64gr .223s myself. I've only shot them at the range but I like them. Accurate and clean. Good barrier penetration and performance afterward and they are a lot less expensive than other "duty" ammo types.
I will be home tomorrow, would you like me to post some pics of the .223 stuff up close?

 

[SNORTHRUP1]

I'm probly concerned for nothing. I never shot them before and am still picking loads for my 700P LTR. I was wondering since they are plated if the plating was thin & if it caused leading in the bore of the barrel. Other then that they look & sound like a great load and can't wait to try them to see how they shoot in my Remington 700P LTR. I'd like to see the pics, and I thank you ahead of time if you post them. It might take me a moment to respond as I pop in online when I can throughout the day.

 

[Podmonkey]

Okay, I should have some pics tomorrow afternoon then. I'm shooting them through chrome lined, CHF barrels so that may give different results as to fouling versus a non lined bore with cut rifling. I know that after 5k rounds through the one rifle there wasn't a spec of anything in the bore after sending a snake through.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I belive that they are plated. I have a stock of the 64gr .223s myself. I've only shot them at the range but I like them. Accurate and clean. Good barrier penetration and performance afterward and they are a lot less expensive than other "duty" ammo types.
I will be home tomorrow, would you like me to post some pics of the .223 stuff up close?

I just bought a box of the Speer LE 223 75gr GDSP to try in my Ruger American Ranch as a potential deer round.

 

[Podmonkey]

I just bought a box of the Speer LE 223 75gr GDSP to try in my Ruger American Ranch as a potential deer round.

Oh, I would be very interested to hear how they do. .223 is legal for deer in NY?

 

[BDinPutnam]

I would be interested in hearing about those as well, Corgi.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Oh, I would be very interested to hear how they do. .223 is legal for deer in NY?

It is indeed. No joke, last Fall an old man drilled an 11 pointer with a mini14. I helped drag the fucker out of the woods as he shot it less than 100 yrds from me.

 

[Podmonkey]

It is indeed. No joke, last Fall an old man drilled an 11 pointer with a mini14. I helped drag the fucker out of the woods as he shot it less than 100 yrds from me.

Wow, with all the states that ban .223 for deer hunting you would think NYS would be among them.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Wow, with all the states that ban .223 for deer hunting you would think NYS would be among them.

Well, real quick I found this: Rifle, Shotgun, and Bow Areas - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation if you scoll down it specifies for rifle "any centerfire rifle". It's legal. Obviously shot placement is key (with any caliber), but it isn't hard to become accurate with the 223.

 

[SNORTHRUP1]

That's a bonus that they shoot clean. The fact their bonded & barrier blind and stay intact is one of the features I like. I also like the fact the cases are nickel plated.

 

[SNORTHRUP1]

I seen a post where a guy uses & swears by the Gold Dot .308 version for bear hunting.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Wow, with all the states that ban .223 for deer hunting you would think NYS would be among them.

Yeah but buried in the DEC regulation I'm sure you have to throw them or use a slingshot.

 

[Podmonkey]

The 223 Gold Dots are primarily known as a quality duty round for barrier penetration. I imagine the same goes for the 308s. What I am curious about, and perhaps @ArmedCorgi can answer, is that do these same barrier penetrating features translate into a hunting round that favors controlled expansion and deep penetration on game? If so I could totally see a .223 Gold Dot being very effective on deer and the .308 on bear.
In other words does the same construction that allows the 223 Gold Dots to punch through the tough automotive glass of a windshield to deliver the hurt to the bad guy behind translate equally well to punching through tough animal hides and bones to get that optimal "air in, blood out" through and through shot on a deer?

 

[BDinPutnam]

Well, real quick I found this: Rifle, Shotgun, and Bow Areas - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation if you scoll down it specifies for rifle "any centerfire rifle". It's legal. Obviously shot placement is key (with any caliber), but it isn't hard to become accurate with the 223.

I never caught that in the regs because rifle is illegal in my county (I am in Putnam; my interest is performance for HD). Interesting.

Of course it also says things like you can't hunt big game with items we can't have in NY (full auto and suppressors).

@Podmonkey those are great points; I am no great white hunter but depending on the variables (weight/velocity/range etc) I could see how that .308 could be a great black bear cartridge. Full disclosure I have not pulled trigger on a bear, I base this on research and conversations; hunting partner and I lost the Michigan lottery two years in a row hoping third time is the charm next year.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[1075tech]

Not specifically Gold Dots, but last year I used a Federal Fusion for deer, which is a bonded bullet. It performed well with complete pass through even after hitting a rib or two. (120gr in 6.5 Grendel). I liked its performance much better than the ballistic tipped bullets I used the year before (123gr SSTs).

 

[ArmedCorgi]

The 223 Gold Dots are primarily known as a quality duty round for barrier penetration. I imagine the same goes for the 308s. What I am curious about, and perhaps @ArmedCorgi can answer, is that do these same barrier penetrating features translate into a hunting round that favors controlled expansion and deep penetration on game? If so I could totally see a .223 Gold Dot being very effective on deer and the .308 on bear.
In other words does the same construction that allows the 223 Gold Dots to punch through the tough automotive glass of a windshield to deliver the hurt to the bad guy behind translate equally well to punching through tough animal hides and bones to get that optimal "air in, blood out" through and through shot on a deer?

I'm hardly an expert on this @Podmonkey but as I understand it, the things you want in a hunting round would be good penetration, expansion and weight retention. You need a bullet that will penetrate tough hide, muscle and bone and create a good wound cavity. Knock down power is nice, but a deer will still run a ways even if it's heart has been obliterated. A 223 is nothing to shrug off. It's a high speed round that will do a lot of tissue damage especially if placed properly. The low recoil allows for good placement assuming you do your part.

 

[Podmonkey]

Not specifically Gold Dots, but last year I used a Federal Fusion for deer, which is a bonded bullet. It performed well with complete pass through even after hitting a rib or two. (120gr in 6.5 Grendel). I liked its performance much better than the ballistic tipped bullets I used the year before (123gr SSTs).

I keep reading that the Federal Fusion and the Gold Dots are very similar. Are the Fusions plated as well? A feature of the Gold Dots is that the lead tip is flush with the tip of the "jacket" to aid feeding in semi autos.

 

[Podmonkey]

I'm hardly an expert on this @Podmonkey but as I understand it, the things you want in a hunting round would be good penetration, expansion and weight retention. You need a bullet that will penetrate tough hide, muscle and bone and create a good wound cavity. Knock down power is nice, but a deer will still run a ways even if it's heart has been obliterated. A 223 is nothing to shrug off. It's a high speed round that will do a lot of tissue damage especially if placed properly. The low recoil allows for good placement assuming you do your part.

I am specifically inquiring about the Gold Dot's suitability in these regards. I'm curious because they are marketed as a duty round for LE and SD but it seems to me that many of the same features that make it a good choice for these purposes would also translate well for the taking of game.

 

[SNORTHRUP1]

One of the first rounds I was considering was the Federal Gold Medal Match with the 168 grain Sierra MATCHKING after hearing how they are supposed to group really with with the Rem. 700's and the 1 in 12" twist, but when it comes to using them as a hunting round the MATCHKING's from what I hear & read are inconsistant and can fragment when hitting soft tissue. The fact the Speer Gold Dot's are a bonded bullet and seeing the ballistic gelatin tests and how they stay together & mushroom is one of the reasons I wanted to try & use the Speer load as it would be used for both target shooting & occasional hunting round used in my Rem. 700P LTR.

 

[Podmonkey]

One of the first rounds I was considering was the Federal Gold Medal Match with the 168 grain Sierra MATCHKING after hearing how they are supposed to group really with with the Rem. 700's and the 1 in 12" twist, but when it comes to using them as a hunting round the MATCHKING's from what I hear & read are inconsistant and can fragment when hitting soft tissue. The fact the Speer Gold Dot's are a bonded bullet and seeing the ballistic gelatin tests and how they stay together & mushroom is one of the reasons I wanted to try & use the Speer load as it would be used for both target shooting & occasional hunting round used in my Rem. 700P LTR.

I have read in numerous places that Matchking bullets, nor OTMs in general, are not ideal for large(ish) game. Fragmentation is a significant factor in wounding potential but the lost bullet mass leads to less penetration overall. On lightly built varmints, including the two legged variety, this explosive effect is desirable but on more substantial creatures may fail to hit the vitals adequately. From what I understand an expanding round is preferred.

 

[SNORTHRUP1]

From what I read & found online, the bullets that are loaded into Federal Fusion ammo are very simalar in construction & are "plated" with the same process as the Speer bullets. I never seen a Speer bullet / projectile and that's why I posted original post.

 

[SNORTHRUP1]

Podmonkey, I have read the same online and that's why I steered to the Speer Ammunition after looking up ammo online. I seen Target Sports USA sells it and was planning on getting it there being their the only place I know that has it and that the guys at my rifle range buy ammo from them as well.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I am specifically inquiring about the Gold Dot's suitability in these regards. I'm curious because they are marketed as a duty round for LE and SD but it seems to me that many of the same features that make it a good choice for these purposes would also translate well for the taking of game.

 

[Podmonkey]

From what I read & found online, the bullets that are loaded into Federal Fusion ammo are very simalar in construction & are "plated" with the same process as the Speer bullets. I never seen a Speer bullet / projectile and that's why I posted original post.

Probably the only practical difference between the two is the exposed lead tip of the Fusions.
I have run 40 rounds of the Fusion through my AR and they all fed without malfunction but I did cycle a few through the action manually to check for deformation of that lead tip. All the ones I inspected did indeed have deformed tips from the feed ramp. Not likely to be an issue for a bolt action. Also the Gold Dots use a powder with a flash suppressant in it which I don't know if the Fusion has. Federal does market an MSR (Modern Sportin Rilfe, aka AR15) loading that is optimised for use in shorter barrels.
Of the two the Fusions are marketed more towards hunting.

 

[Podmonkey]

Podmonkey, I have read the same online and that's why I steered to the Speer Ammunition after looking up ammo online. I seen Target Sports USA sells it and was planning on getting it there being their the only place I know that has it and that the guys at my rifle range buy ammo from them as well.

Target Sports charges an arm and a leg for the Gold Dot rifle ammo! See if you can wait for a sale.

 

[SNORTHRUP1]

Thank you for the heads up about waiting for a sale.

 

[Podmonkey]

Thank you for the heads up about waiting for a sale.

Target Sports is a good ammo source but their prices can be quite erratic. Last I checked they were asking $1.10 a round for the 308 Gold Dots.

 

[Podmonkey]

I have been considering getting a supply of the 308 Gold Dots myself for the Galil. However lately I'm thinking I should test all the M80 ball I can find and whatever groups much under 2" I think I'll make my stash ammo too. Bullet selection is just a wee bit less critical for the 7.62x51 vs the 5.56x45.

 

[1075tech]

My personal opinion, FWIW, is that some may be confusing the "plating". I don't believe they are plated as in the mil-surp bi-metal type bullet where a thin copper plating is applied to a steel core bullet. In the case of the bonded core bullets such as the Fusion or Gold Dot, the "plating", I believe, relates to the process whereby the copper jacket is applied and bonded to the lead core.

In my very limited experience, the bonded core Fusion appeared to have stayed together upon impact with the deer. I had complete pass through and found no fragments. I shot deer at nearly the same distance, with the same rifle, with Hornady SST's. The SST fragmented and did not pass through, although there was extensive internal damage.

Pod, I polish and blend the feed ramps of the upper and barrel extension on my builds. This allows hollow points to feed smoother and more reliably and reduces deformation of soft points.

Oh, and Speer makes a 120gr Gold Dot in 6.5. May have to get some to develop a load with.