The Future of Firearms/Ammunition Design.

[carpediem]

Has anyone beside myself wondered, where do we go from here, in regard to firearm and ammunition design and technology.
From the first matchlock, to the flintlock, wheel locks, percussion caps, self contained cartridge arms and from single shot muzzle loaded arms to bolt action, lever action, pump, auto loading, and full auto.
Where is there area left to innovate? Most action/operation styles you can imagine have been tried. Most types of ammunition have also been tried, and now innovation resides in new and wildcat cartridges.
Where do you see the future of small arms/ammunition for the civilian market going? Or is it a moot question because the days of civilian arms ownership are numbered?
What do you think?

 

[RandallOfLegend]

• Electronic Triggers. Will have to be software limited to prevent full auto.
• 40 S&W 180 grain at 800 FPS that Penetrates 12-18" in gel and expands to 0.75".
• Man portable rail guns
• Rimless pistol caliber lever guns
• More Pedersen action handguns
• Smart bullets (50 caliber self steering)

 

[MilesTeg]

I think there's three possibilities. This not counting improving on the current ammunition and firearm design. Realistically I think this is where we are stuck for a while unless there's a huge break through.

1. Hand held rail gun.
2. Hand held energy weapon.
3. Possibly propellant stored in the firearm in a more efficient manner. Think liquid the sprays it behind the projectile. That way all you need to load is the projectiles and occasionally the propellant. The military is already experimenting with it in some artillery. I don't think this will be a vast improvement.

 

[Darth]

A gun that will let you shoot frying pans AT bullets.

 

[Target]

• Electronic Triggers. Will have to be software limited to prevent full auto.

We've been there with paintball

"Back in the day" ( early/ mid 90s), a lot of the factory team guys hacked the boards and put in their own programming.

I had a gun that was semi auto till you tapped " Shave and a Haircut" with the trigger then it went into a cheat mode.
Others had magnetic rings on their fingers that activated the enhanced modes. The refs only got semi cuz no ring.

Current tournament level guns have "Ramping" . The first few shots are semi then after 5 or so shots in a second for two seconds, the board started adding shots . So for 5 trigger pulls, you could get 7-8 shots.
Stop shooting for 2-3 seconds. Reverts back to semi mode.

The few guns that had true "full Auto" either mechanically or electronically actually shot slower than some guns in "semi" or enhanced modes.
Most fields did/do not allow full auto for insurance reasons.

Another issue is that they do not have a mechanical or electronic safety.
If its "on" its hot.
And the trigger switches can be pretty damned light. Drop one and some will fire. Shake it, some will fire.
These were modified markers and not factory triggers or switches.

Just sayin'....if there's a will, there's a way.

 

[carpediem]

• Electronic Triggers. Will have to be software limited to prevent full auto.
• 40 S&W 180 grain at 800 FPS that Penetrates 12-18" in gel and expands to 0.75".
• Man portable rail guns
• Rimless pistol caliber lever guns
• More Pedersen action handguns
• Smart bullets (50 caliber self steering)

I myself wouldn't want to trust my life to an electronic trigger. In some firearms, I would also question the ability of small sized electronic components to survive recoil impulses. A .338 Lapua or .50 BMG would really rattle small components.
Man portable rail guns, is that even possible? Given the amount of energy needed to power the electromagnets, unless a much lower velocity would be attained, you would have to have a portable power source too.
I think they are working on the self steering bullets, which was sort of done/tried with the gyrojet ammo/weapons.

 

[carpediem]

A gun that will let you shoot frying pans AT bullets.

It won't defeat 9mm ammo though!

 

[Darth]

We've been there with paintball

"Back in the day" ( early/ mid 90s), a lot of the factory team guys hacked the boards and put in their own programming.

I had a gun that was semi auto till you tapped " Shave and a Haircut" with the trigger then it went into a cheat mode.
Others had magnetic rings on their fingers that activated the enhanced modes. The refs only got semi cuz no ring.

Current tournament level guns have "Ramping" . The first few shots are semi then after 5 or so shots in a second for two seconds, the board started adding shots . So for 5 trigger pulls, you could get 7-8 shots.
Stop shooting for 2-3 seconds. Reverts back to semi mode.

The few guns that had true "full Auto" either mechanically or electronically actually shot slower than some guns in "semi" or enhanced modes.
Most fields did/do not allow full auto for insurance reasons.

Another issue is that they do not have a mechanical or electronic safety.
If its "on" its hot.
And the trigger switches can be pretty damned light. Drop one and some will fire. Shake it, some will fire.
These were modified markers and not factory triggers or switches.

Just sayin'....if there's a will, there's a way.

That "Shave and a haircut" thing is awesome.

 

[MilesTeg]

For traditional style improvements I think we're on the verge of a huge firearm system revolution. I'm talking you put the cross hairs on the target and the bullet hits where you designate. The system will be self correcting for all shot factors. I think this will be as complete system where you have a computer either on your person maybe built into your phone. You will have a scope the self adjusts windage and elevation. You will also have a data collecting device. This could be built into the scope there are some commercial devices already available that kind of do this. But I think it will be in the form of a micro drone. That will be able to get distance wind along the bullet path humidity temp and any other ambient conditions. I think the second gen will have a radar to track the shot in order to make corrections for future shots. Gen three of they system would probably be an electric trigger system that is tied to the computer system. So you will have to program your system for time and precision tolerances. When you pull the trigger it either shoot immediately (or so close we can't tell), this would be programmed with time turned up. Or when you pull the trigger the firearm waits until you hold the weapon at the exact point where it will hid dead center, this would be if the precision was turned up.

As kind of a side bar I think with current technology our next big leap will have to do with system monitoring. I think this will include mounting all sorts of small equipment on to micro drones. This will allow for all sorts of real world problem solving and improvements.

 

[carpediem]

For traditional style improvements I think we're on the verge of a huge firearm system revolution. I'm talking you put the cross hairs on the target and the bullet hits where you designate. The system will be self correcting for all shot factors. I think this will be as complete system where you have a computer either on your person maybe built into your phone. You will have a scope the self adjusts windage and elevation. You will also have a data collecting device. This could be built into the scope there are some commercial devices already available that kind of do this. But I think it will be in the form of a micro drone. That will be able to get distance wind along the bullet path humidity temp and any other ambient conditions. I think the second gen will have a radar to track the shot in order to make corrections for future shots. Gen three of they system would probably be an electric trigger system that is tied to the computer system. So you will have to program your system for time and precision tolerances. When you pull the trigger it either shoot immediately (or so close we can't tell), this would be programmed with time turned up. Or when you pull the trigger the firearm waits until you hold the weapon at the exact point where it will hid dead center, this would be if the precision was turned up.

As kind of a side bar I think with current technology our next big leap will have to do with system monitoring. I think this will include mounting all sorts of small equipment on to micro drones. This will allow for all sorts of real world problem solving and improvements.

What is the scope/rifle combo that does that? Remington made some 700s' with it and it is available on other rifles. It interfaces with computers and allows others too see what the shooter sees. I just cannot think of the name right at the moment.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It won't defeat 9mm ammo though!

Actually in that case, I'd rather have the .45Acp. If somebody shot a frying pan at me and I shot the pan with the 9mm, the bullet would go through the pan and the pan would still come at me and hit me.

Being that a .45 Acp cannot penetrate a pan, if I shot the pan coming at me with a .45 Acp, it'll stop the pan from hitting me.

 

[Catskillkid]

I think you're all barking up the wrong tree. The future is this: DL-44 heavy blaster pistol

 

[MilesTeg]

What is the scope/rifle combo that does that? Remington made some 700s' with it and it is available on other rifles. It interfaces with computers and allows others too see what the shooter sees. I just cannot think of the name right at the moment.

BORS® | Barrett

Also kestrel has started integrating their meters to your weary phone and use it as a ballistics computer.

 

[meketrefe]

Just like everything else. ...smarter bullets and rifles and dumber shooters.

 

[MilesTeg]

A gun that will let you shoot frying pans AT bullets.

Let's agree to start small. How about a 45acp that can defeat they very real and scary frying pan threat were facing in this country.

 

[carpediem]

I think you're all barking up the wrong tree. The future is this: DL-44 heavy blaster pistol

View attachment 1305

A Broomhandle Mauser with an MG-42 flash hider!?

 

[carpediem]

Just like everything else. ...smarter bullets and rifles and dumber shooters.

HEY! Buck Rogers wasn't dumb! Twiggy or whatever he was called was annoying though!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Let's agree to start small. How about a 45acp that can defeat they very real and scary frying pan threat were facing in this country.

Or a storage shed, dumpster, aluminum park bench, steel garbage can, .......

 

[Darth]

Or a storage shed, dumpster, aluminum park bench, steel garbage can, .......

Who the hell is shooting at you!? Somebody with the Half Life Gravity Gun!?

 

[Marine Cpl]

You might from behind a dumpster after I steal your apple pie.

 

[RandallOfLegend]

Where does the frying pan meme come from? I think I saw a youtube video with a guy shooting frying pans once.

 

[carpediem]

BORS® | Barrett

Also kestrel has started integrating their meters to your weary phone and use it as a ballistics computer.

Close, but this is the one I was thinking of.
TrackingPoint » Extreme Weapons for an Extreme World

Where does the frying pan meme come from? I think I saw a youtube video with a guy shooting frying pans once.

A debate on 9mm vs .45 ACP I believe.

 

[MilesTeg]

Thank you it was driving me nuts. I knew there was another system but couldn't find it. I thought I was crazy. These systems are in their infancy it will be interesting to see where it goes.

 

[carpediem]

Thank you it was driving me nuts. I knew there was another system but couldn't find it. I thought I was crazy. These systems are in their infancy it will be interesting to see where it goes.

I know they make an average shooter fairly accurate, however, they are heavy, vulnerable to the elements, damage and also hacking. I don't like them.

 

[MilesTeg]

I agree with all of your gripes. But you have to remember these are all first generation systems. You can't judge today's smart phone to the first wireless car phone. The technology is in its infancy and if it goes where I think it will shooting a larger caliber at distance will be relatively easy.

 

[Calculon]

I believe an achievable goal is with integrally suppressed firearms. I've seen a video of a company that is developing a pistol that is pretty quiet. Regulatory concerns aside it would be a real benefit to everyone in and around the shooting sports.

 

[carpediem]

I agree with all of your gripes. But you have to remember these are all first generation systems. You can't judge today's smart phone to the first wireless car phone. The technology is in its infancy and if it goes where I think it will shooting a larger caliber at distance will be relatively easy.

Bag phones were less cool than the tracking point! I agree that the technology will advance from where it is now. It will be interesting to see if the government steps in to regulate things like the tracking point because untrained shooters can shoot better over distances, you know, becoming snipers....

I believe an achievable goal is with integrally suppressed firearms. I've seen a video of a company that is developing a pistol that is pretty quiet. Regulatory concerns aside it would be a real benefit to everyone in and around the shooting sports.

It would be nice if they would de regulate suppressors, allowing us all to have them. Don't they already have some integrally suppressed rifles? The MP-5 comes to mind.

 

[MilesTeg]

I'm relatively young (32) so I will concede to the ancient phone technology. I really believe if we ever get back to a true free market where new technology and ideas are allowed to develop we will see a revolution that surpasses the computer revolution. The key points for me are energy, not necessarily production but that would be huge too,but storage along with efficiency. We need to come up with a better battery as a species. Also having efficient usage of the stored energy is a big deal. Another big revolution that I think we are close to is sensor technology. Being able to scan or survey a system will open up doors for design and efficiency the likes of which we have never seen. As a civil engineer by day knowing the field conditions and system monitoring would change my field by leaps and bounds. There are definitely more aspects of modern life that benefit more from this technology than my field.

All of the highlighted points could transition into firearms design. Only time will tell.

 

[carpediem]

I'm relatively young (32) so I will concede to the ancient phone technology. I really believe if we ever get back to a true free market where new technology and ideas are allowed to develop we will see a revolution that surpasses the computer revolution. The key points for me are energy, not necessarily production but that would be huge too,but storage along with efficiency. We need to come up with a better battery as a species. Also having efficient usage of the stored energy is a big deal. Another big revolution that I think we are close to is sensor technology. Being able to scan or survey a system will open up doors for design and efficiency the likes of which we have never seen. As a civil engineer by day knowing the field conditions and system monitoring would change my field by leaps and bounds. There are definitely more aspects of modern life that benefit more from this technology than my field.

All of the highlighted points could transition into firearms design. Only time will tell.

I do think an integrated system is the next thing, as has been mentioned. The electronic trigger combined with the optic that is, for all intents and purposes a sensor array and weather station, seems like a logical progression. These already exist, as you said, in their infancy. I don't know about the miniaturization of directed energy weapons though, such as lasers. The rail guns seem like they would be problematic to make small enough to be man portable also. Maybe an advance using duplex rounds, or new propellants to allow for high velocity out of a .45ACP sized cartridge. Who knows.

 

[Criticalt]

For traditional style improvements I think we're on the verge of a huge firearm system revolution. I'm talking you put the cross hairs on the target and the bullet hits where you designate. The system will be self correcting for all shot factors. I think this will be as complete system where you have a computer either on your person maybe built into your phone. You will have a scope the self adjusts windage and elevation. You will also have a data collecting device. This could be built into the scope there are some commercial devices already available that kind of do this. But I think it will be in the form of a micro drone. That will be able to get distance wind along the bullet path humidity temp and any other ambient conditions. I think the second gen will have a radar to track the shot in order to make corrections for future shots. Gen three of they system would probably be an electric trigger system that is tied to the computer system. So you will have to program your system for time and precision tolerances. When you pull the trigger it either shoot immediately (or so close we can't tell), this would be programmed with time turned up. Or when you pull the trigger the firearm waits until you hold the weapon at the exact point where it will hid dead center, this would be if the precision was turned up.

As kind of a side bar I think with current technology our next big leap will have to do with system monitoring. I think this will include mounting all sorts of small equipment on to micro drones. This will allow for all sorts of real world problem solving and improvements.

I cannot even tell you how uninterested I would be in this technology.
Maybe if I were a sniper but, part of the fun of shooting guns to me is the rather simple technology of todays guns being used to tame distance and wind to hit a target at 100 yards with iron sights.
Theres nothing like waiting until that perfect moment that the deer steps into range and you know that if you use your skills just right, that deer will drop without a twitch.
Computer guided guns will never be my thing. Id rather go backwards to black powder muskets.