Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Your thoughts?
Underwood Ammo
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
JaguarJaguarGolf
6.5 Creedmoor
I shot about 50 rounds of UW 200gr hardcast 10mm out of my Glock 40 and my STI Nitro 10 1911 this morning. Seems well made, functioned fine, seems like it has some power. I haven't taken any game with it yet, but I plan on using it for deer hunting next year.
Catskillkid
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Got a box for Christmas this year. Never actually got around to shooting it so I can't really say how it works performance wise.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I have since decided to drop hollow point ammunition. Stopping power/ energy dump is a myth in slow moving pistol ammunition. For years the 9mm, 45 ACP, .38 Special, and .357 Magnum in both FMJ and Semi Wadcutter have dropped thousands of people. There were no serious over penetration issues back then or the inability to stop a threat either. In fact, it was increased. Barriers were never an issue back then.
This is what I'm going to load up on from now on only because that don't make a +P flat point to minimize deflection for 9mm that isn't 147 gr.
9mm Luger +P 115 Grain Xtreme Penetrator – Underwood Ammo
This is what I'm going to load up on from now on only because that don't make a +P flat point to minimize deflection for 9mm that isn't 147 gr.
9mm Luger +P 115 Grain Xtreme Penetrator – Underwood Ammo
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freddy
.308 Win
A buck fifty per round! I'll stick with HST.
I did ballistic gel testing with Underwood .380 Xtreme Penetrator, 9mm 90gr+P Xtreme defender and .45 120gr Xtreme Defender as well as 357SIG Xtreme defender 90gr
The 380, 9mm and .45 penetrated to 17-17 1/2" routinely through bare gel and through 4 layers of heavy denim. They were extremely consistent.
I used Ruger LCP Custom, Glock 43, and Shield .45 The .357 sig went through the 20" of gel using a Glock 23
The 380, 9mm and .45 penetrated to 17-17 1/2" routinely through bare gel and through 4 layers of heavy denim. They were extremely consistent.
I used Ruger LCP Custom, Glock 43, and Shield .45 The .357 sig went through the 20" of gel using a Glock 23
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
If it penetrated enough, I'd stick with that too. When the Underwood's arrive, I'll be using up my HST's as range ammo.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I want 20 plus inches of gel penetration. 12 to 16 doesn't cut it. It doesn't even penetrate both sides.
Uzi
.308 Win
Ever do any rapid firing testing with this ammo. I'd be concerned with the odd slots feeding quickly over feed ramps, or just in general feeding reliably in general.
Uzi
.308 Win
Can you expand on that? Like roughly how many rounds have you been through in rapid firing succession? what gun was used etc...
I used a Glock 42, Ruger LCP Custom and a Ruger LCP II. All functioned fine in 3 magazine dumps. . My Kahr CW 380 choked on Underwood but functioned perfectly with Lehigh's version. The 9mm I tested solely with my Glock 43. The Shield .45 was used for the .45. I did 3 magazine dumps with each after gel testing.
Having said that I carry Federal HST 124 standard pressure in all my 9mm's. ( I have about 10 carry 9mm's) as they produced the most consistent performance. 50 out of 50 penetrated to 18" and expanded to .624". In my ,380's I carry the Xtreme Penetrators. In my Shield short barrel .45 I carry Corbon DPX 185 +P and/or Remington Golden Saber 185+P as they were the most consistent performers in the Short barrel .45. I also tested those with the S7W MP .45C with the same results
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Your skin accounts for at least 3 to 4 inches in gel if not more. Ballistic gel is calibrated by firing a BB into it. If it penetrates 3 to 4 inches it's calibrated. That same BB won't penetrate your skin however. Gel isn't a 1 to 1 ratio. Most bullets that penetrate the bare minimum in gel will just barely reach vitals in an actual body. Now if you are a big, fat man with a lot of blubber, that 12 inch minimum in gel won't reach vitals.
Federal HST's, Gold Dots, and other quality hollowpoints reach vitals in most cases but there are cases when they don't depending on a number of factors. (Bullet path angle, flattening after encountering a hard barrier, obese bodies with lots of fat, ect.) FMJ's, wadcutters, and flat points do not have that problem. They may not expand from .355 to .586 but they'll penetrate both sides of an average sized body destroying more tissue with a longer wound channel ensuring vital are hit if placed in it's path.
Look at this fat fuck. He took multiple rounds of .40 S&W hollow points in his chest. It wasn't until he was shot in his right leg that he went down.
This proves that energy dump is a myth in slow moving handgun ammo. Penetration is all that matters.
Federal HST's, Gold Dots, and other quality hollowpoints reach vitals in most cases but there are cases when they don't depending on a number of factors. (Bullet path angle, flattening after encountering a hard barrier, obese bodies with lots of fat, ect.) FMJ's, wadcutters, and flat points do not have that problem. They may not expand from .355 to .586 but they'll penetrate both sides of an average sized body destroying more tissue with a longer wound channel ensuring vital are hit if placed in it's path.
Look at this fat fuck. He took multiple rounds of .40 S&W hollow points in his chest. It wasn't until he was shot in his right leg that he went down.
This proves that energy dump is a myth in slow moving handgun ammo. Penetration is all that matters.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
They even penetrate bear skulls from a short barreled Glock 43.
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freddy
.308 Win
Mogadishu
"...soldiers reported frustration with shooting enemies multiple times only to see them get up and run away. ...[the bullets] traveled straight through the Somali fighters.
Mozambique
This would be a potential solution to the very large threat in the video.
There are compromises and trade-offs with any ammo. In a self defense shooting there are several strong reasons for a civilian to use the same ammo as LE. When the FBI and LE switch to Underwood, so will I.
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The other legal issue is that No department local or federal recommend FMJ or flatpoints. They recommend hollow points .....except for the State of NJ. So if there is any issue with your shooting that maybe related to over penetration then I would expect the prosecutor will use that against you as it is not common practice. Makes sense but I am not a lawyer
freddy
.308 Win
He was smoking PCP apparently. We cannot assume that merely body mass allowed him to continue fighting.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Those were with .223 rounds that didn't fragment. The low velocity of pistol rounds don't have the "stopping power/ energy dump" that high velocity rifle rounds have when they fragment or expand. All you will get is the actual destruction of tissue that the round itself makes. That's it. Look up other shootings on YouTube. You'll see average sized people taking hollow points in non vital areas like nothing.
As far as police departments go, they are bandwagon followers. The FBI went to 9mm FMJ, so did they after dropping their .38's. The FBI went to 9mm Winchester Silvertips, so did they. The Winchester Silvertips failed in Miami so the FBI went to .40. So did they. Now the FBI is going back to 9mm so are they.
None of these penetration problems and complaint about stopping power ever existed before hollow points.
If you read papers written by trauma surgeons, they all say that pistol wounds all look the same to them regardless of caliber. Often times these hollow points just make it halfway into a body.
Hollow points were created to prevent overpenetration liability suits for police departments.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That doesn't matter. You can be high on anything but if a shot knocks out your heart, brain, or spinal column, you are going down.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Police don't recommend anything.
freddy
.308 Win
Can you site a reputable source for this claim?
freddy
.308 Win
Correlation does not equal causation.
Not true. I didn't say they recommend to civilians. The recommend to the officers on duty and off duty. Most of the time it is not a recommendation but a requirement. Good luck defending yourself with your thought process. When I worked with officers in Florida I called the department head and he DID recommend .40 caliber and which bullet design they use.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No but anyone who does the research on how bullets actually wound will come up with that logical conclusion. I saw the same thing on ARFCOM.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You do realize that police chiefs with no knowledge of ballistics are the ones doing the recommending and policy to their officers.
It even happens even in the military with the adoption of substandard equipment.
freddy
.308 Win
Brain or spine, yes.
Heart, not immediately.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You can only go so far with a busted heart.
freddy
.308 Win
Yes, for example - the big dude in the video.
Two to the chest, one to face. Rinse and repeat.