Unlikely pair could usher gun rights case to U.S. Supreme Court

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by livingston, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. livingston

    livingston .450/400 Nitro Ex

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    (Reuters) - George Young is a Vietnam War veteran who sued the state of Hawaii three times on his own without a lawyer for the right to carry a handgun, and lost each time.
    Alan Beck is an independent lawyer who took on Young’s appeal for free.

    Last month, the duo won a major victory for gun rights when an appeals court found Hawaii’s restrictive handgun law unconstitutional, a ruling that could lead to a landmark decision from the U.S. Supreme Court on the right to bear arms in public. And they did so without the help of the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA) gun lobby.
    “I went around the state of Hawaii and contacted about 17 attorneys and all of them turned me down. They said I would only lose,” said Young, 68. “I want to see it through to the end, which is the U.S. Supreme Court.”

    U.S gun-control advocates favor strict laws like Hawaii’s, blaming lax gun laws for excessive gun violence and deadly mass shootings in the United States. The NRA and other gun-rights advocates oppose laws that restrict the constitutional right to bear arms and want the high court to take up a new case, hoping it will expand gun rights outside the home.

    The Supreme Court has not taken on a major gun-rights case since a pair of cases in 2008 and 2010 in which the court established that the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to keep a gun at home.

    Hawaii allows only people who work in security or who can demonstrate to law enforcement officials that they have an “exceptional case” to carry weapons, concealed or openly.
    After he left the Army, Young carried a firearm for 17 years as an airport security guard but lost that right after he retired. He failed to convince the County of Hawaii’s police chief he deserved a permit, so he sued, saying his constitutional right to bear arms was violated.

    He filed suits in 2008, 2010 and 2012 to challenge the denials, losing each time.

    Lacking the means to hire a lawyer for an appeal, Young would normally have had to depend on a star litigator financed by the NRA or a major law firm to take the case pro bono, or free of cost.
    On July 24, Young scored his first victory. In a 2-1 ruling, a three-judge panel of the normally liberal 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found here Young has a Second Amendment right to carry a firearm in public. The NRA applauded the ruling.

    Hawaii has until Sept. 14 to ask the case to be reheard by the same panel or “en banc” by a larger number of judges.


    The state has defended its law by citing the 2008 and 2010 Supreme Court cases, District of Colombia v. Heller and McDonald v. City of Chicago. While those rulings were taken as a victory by gun-rights advocates, proponents of gun control say the court also established limits to the Second Amendment.

    “Heller was not intended to extend the protections found in the Second Amendment to any area outside the home,” Hawaii said in a 2013 filing in the case.

    ‘CIRCUIT SPLIT’Some U.S. appeals courts have upheld state laws that greatly restrict gun carry rights while others have struck them down, creating what is known as “circuit split.” The Supreme Court often hears cases in order to resolve such splits, but it requires four out of nine Supreme Court justices to agree to hear a case.

    “As a practical matter, there is indeed a circuit split,
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    Unlikely pair could usher gun rights case to U.S. Supreme Court
     
    AnthonyC likes this.
  2. Edwardteach72

    Edwardteach72 6.5 Creedmoor

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    It will be interesting if Hawaii just takes the hit and starts issuing more concealed carry licenses and outlaws open carry all together, instead of having this continue, risk a SCOTUS win for the 2A making it law of the land again
     
  3. nortatoga

    nortatoga .308 Win Yearly Shot Winner Monthly Shot Winner

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    This is not a either/or ruling! The 9th has already ruled the concealed carry is not a constitutional right!
     
  4. Edwardteach72

    Edwardteach72 6.5 Creedmoor

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    they stated that the state can regulate conceal carry as it is not a right, but open carry is a right, but if the state gives everyone the right to carry conceal they can restrict open carry
     
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  5. nortatoga

    nortatoga .308 Win Yearly Shot Winner Monthly Shot Winner

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    By your own quote [ but out carry is a right ] how can it be restricted?
     
  6. nortatoga

    nortatoga .308 Win Yearly Shot Winner Monthly Shot Winner

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  7. Edwardteach72

    Edwardteach72 6.5 Creedmoor

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    they ruled that they could restrict open carry "for public safety" if they then allow concealed carry,

    what they are saying is if the state isnt going to issue concealed carry licenses then the people have a right to open carry for self defense. But the state can then for public safety turn the state to a concealed carry only but also issue everyone licenses
     
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  8. nortatoga

    nortatoga .308 Win Yearly Shot Winner Monthly Shot Winner

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    SCOTUS has already had an opinion on concealed carried weapons from Robertson v. Baldwin, 165 U. S. 275, 281 (1897), This will probably end up with the SCOTUS and now is the best time with Kennedy retired ( neither side knew how he would rule on 2A cases) I would still like to see one more conservative added to the Court as insurance! And before anyone says I'm against CCW far from it! Win this open carry nation wide and see how fast CCW licenses are made easier to obtain!
     
  9. Edwardteach72

    Edwardteach72 6.5 Creedmoor

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    i think we are both kinda saying the same thing here just differently.

    yes this most likely will go to SCOTUS as it already shows a split with the courts as it stands.

    Or (as what happened recently in D.C.) the anit's who just lost this case may just accept the current ruling as it stands and start issuing more carry licenses in places like CA and HI, and be more like NY and D.C. (hard to get but not impossible) thus having the "Open Carry is a Right" ruling only affect the 9th circuit instead of en blanc winning and then having Young appeal to the SCOTUS. Which with the hopefully soon new makeup of that court will most likely grant writ of cert. and then making the "open carry is a right" law of the land
     
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  10. nortatoga

    nortatoga .308 Win Yearly Shot Winner Monthly Shot Winner

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    Yes but my post in thread #6 Charles Nichols is not suing for either or! I believe he plans to go all the way ( Young may also if he does not accept a CCW now, he would have them on the rope so to speak!)
     
    Edwardteach72 likes this.
  11. Edwardteach72

    Edwardteach72 6.5 Creedmoor

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    agreed, i was just speaking on the current 9th circuit ruling in youngs case
     
  12. nortatoga

    nortatoga .308 Win Yearly Shot Winner Monthly Shot Winner

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    Both cases are somewhat intertwined!
     
  13. Phauxtoe

    Phauxtoe .338 Win Mag

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    well what about here in NY!
    is CCW w/Restrictions really complying with the law.
    When the Hell does it trickle down to US!
     
  14. Edwardteach72

    Edwardteach72 6.5 Creedmoor

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    yes but the one has a current ruling and between now and 5 weeks we will know if it is going to be challenged or not by the state
     
  15. Edwardteach72

    Edwardteach72 6.5 Creedmoor

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    NY falls under 2nd circuit,

    2nd circuit has and will continue to uphold NY issuing laws..... this is actually a good thing now, especially if IF if the state doesnt challenge the current ruling by Sept 14th causing a major split in the courts, hopefully not much later Kav. gets appointed to the court, then SCOTUS pretty much has to step in
     
  16. nortatoga

    nortatoga .308 Win Yearly Shot Winner Monthly Shot Winner

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    Yes Nichols case is on hold until that time.
     
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