Would CCW and Open Carry Handgun Owners ers have Prevented the Vegas Shooter?

[Frankly]

Imagine if that October 1, 2017 country music festival at Mandalay Bay allowed responsible citizens to carry handguns. Potentially hundreds of citizens could have been armed in this situation.

Could they prevented enough of a threat to completely discourage the shooter from targeting them?

And if the shooter proceeded, could a few hundred pistols shooting into the general vicinity of the shooter been effective in stopping him without causing worse havoc?

 

[Criticalt]

32 floors up in a dark room with a crazy crowd.
Dozens of shooters would have caused more injuries.

 

[freddy]

Imagine if that October 1, 2017 country music festival at Mandalay Bay allowed responsible citizens to carry handguns. Potentially hundreds of citizens could have been armed in this situation.

Could they prevented enough of a threat to completely discourage the shooter from targeting them?

And if the shooter proceeded, could a few hundred pistols shooting into the general vicinity of the shooter been effective in stopping him without causing worse havoc?

Just finish smokin' a fatty?

 

[Criticalt]

Also, the 100s of peoole in surrounding rooms better hit the floor, because here comes the BOOM!!

 

[Podmonkey]

There is no way handgun fire at that range, at night, would have had any effect against the shooter. I doubt people would be able to figure the proper ammount of elevalvation to get the rounds anywhere near him. I'm sorry but what would have been helpful here is universal first aid training.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Perhaps if the hotel staff were armed they could have responded in some way. They could have also cut electric to the floor.

 

[Uzi]

I have to say that's a horrible poll, no offense. You wouldn't want to start shooting up at a building in the dark that's 30+ stories high 400 yards away with a CCW. Not only that, but very few people even knew where the gunfire was coming from the whole time it was happening. Firing a pistol aimlessly at a massive building would be extremely stupid and probably hurt more people. It's a ridiculous scenario to contemplate. Having said that, if this asshole was on the ground level within maybe 100 yards or so shooting into the crowd or something, I do think that the people that are already carrying around the area in las vegas would be able to mitigate lives being lost and might even take him out before police arrive. There is still going to be death either way. I think everyone that values the ability to defend themselves should not just rely on someone else, but also be carrying themselves too. Overall, having a defensive pistol in most scenarios can help your survival.

 

[Podmonkey]

Woulda coulda shoulda. This is one of those times where nothing could be done. This attack was well planned and carried out with skill.

 

[Frankly]

So no deterrent at all, eh?

 

[Darth]

It would have done nothing. The left often say that mockingly like "If only they had more guns, they coulda stopped the high rise shooter herp derp."

In reality it's a completely unrelated situation.

It's like saying "If your house was on fire, would a bicycle helmet have put it out?"

One has no bearing on the other.

 

[Podmonkey]

So no deterrent at all, eh?

In this case no. Under those conditions the shooter would be immune to handgun fire, for suppressive fire to work the rounds need to strike near enough to the target(s) to make them feel as their life is imperiled. If I'm up 30 stories and rounds are stiking the sidewalk below I won't likely be inclined to cease my attack and take cover.

 

[Uzi]

It would have done nothing. The left often say that mockingly like "If only they had more guns, they coulda stopped the high rise shooter herp derp."

In reality it's a completely unrelated situation.

It's like saying "If your house was on fire, would a bicycle helmet have put it out?"

One has no bearing on the other.

Unless it was a small fire in which case the oxygen could have been cut out by smothering it with the bicycle helmet. Great analogy by the way.

 

[Podmonkey]

It would have done nothing. The left often say that mockingly like "If only they had more guns, they coulda stopped the high rise shooter herp derp."

In reality it's a completely unrelated situation.

It's like saying "If your house was on fire, would a bicycle helmet have put it out?"

One has no bearing on the other.

This is the absouloute truth. CCW is irrelevant to this situation.

 

[Frankly]

OK but if you were a carefully planning intelligent shooter would you rather be shooting into a crowd of people carrying handguns or not, even if you're 400' up?

I'd probably pick a different crowd to shoot at.

 

[Podmonkey]

OK but if you were a carefully planning intelligent shooter would you rather be shooting into a crowd of people carrying handguns or not, even if you're 400' up?

I'd probably pick a different crowd to shoot at.

If I'm 400 yards away well elevated and with the element of suprise? If you had told me that each and every person was armed with a handgun it wouldn't deter me at all. Most shooters have a very hard time hitting point targets with a rifle let alone a pistol. Average max effective range for a handgun is 50 yards. A very skilled shooter can take that out to 100 yards maybe. 400 yards and at high elevation to boot is so far outside the handgun's envelope as to make no difference.

 

[Darth]

If you're going to fly a plane into a building and kill a bunch of people, would you still do it if they all had handguns!?

Yes, yes I think they still would.

 

[Frankly]

I'm not arguing that it's a probable shot to take or that if a hundred rednecks let loose there wouldn't be a dozen woundings from ricochets and unlucky shots. But the sheer number of random rounds... one could get lucky.

If I were on top of a cell tower and some asshole is shooting up at me I know that he could take 100 shots and never get close. But if that was 1000 rounds maybe one or two would. It would at least make the guy pull back from the window and pause, giving police more time to get to him.

But yeah I'd probably start with a fifty foot holdover and God Bless the people on the other floors....

 

[NYGuns]

It would have about as much effect as this guy

Might be the worst idea ever to randomly start shooting toward a hotel.

 

[Exonautic]

I'm not arguing that it's a probable shot to take or that if a hundred rednecks let loose there wouldn't be a dozen woundings from ricochets and unlucky shots. But the sheer number of random rounds... one could get lucky.

If I were on top of a cell tower and some asshole is shooting up at me I know that he could take 100 shots and never get close. But if that was 1000 rounds maybe one or two would. It would at least make the guy pull back from the window and pause, giving police more time to get to him.

But yeah I'd probably start with a fifty foot holdover and God Bless the people on the other floors....

And you fail to account for where those other 998 bullets are going, you are responsible for every round that comes out of your gun. thats 1000 projectiles that you have no accountability for because you may be aiming for the 30th, but you're probably just gonna fuck up the day of the people on the 25th.

 

[Frankly]

And you fail to account for where those other 998 bullets are going, you are responsible for every round that comes out of your gun. thats 1000 projectiles that you have no accountability for because you may be aiming for the 30th, but you're probably just gonna fuck up the day of the people on the 25th.

So if you were there and had your handgun, automatic fire raining down, bodies dropping all around you and you look up and see muzzle flashes... and you're clear headed, controlled... would you take the shot?

I know it might get me booted out of the pistol instructors course but damn right I'd take the shot.

And if dozen 0ther people did the same thing with me I bet we'd hinder him, fifty people would get him.

 

[Darth]

So if you were there and had your handgun, automatic fire raining down, bodies dropping all around you and you look up and see muzzle flashes... and you're clear headed, controlled... would you take the shot?

I know it might get me booted out of the pistol instructors course but damn right I'd take the shot.

And if dozen 0ther people did the same thing with me I bet we'd hinder him, fifty people would get him.

No.

 

[Exonautic]

So if you were there and had your handgun, automatic fire raining down, bodies dropping all around you and you look up and see muzzle flashes... and you're clear headed, controlled... would you take the shot?

I know it might get me booted out of the pistol instructors course but damn right I'd take the shot.

And if dozen 0ther people did the same thing with me I bet we'd hinder him, fifty people would get him.

Clear headed, yeah I'll think about it, hell if i had a ccw I might even draw. But then I'll see the lights on below him and be cognizant of the lackof shots I've taken over 100 yards. Idk the ballistics of a 45 or a 9 out to 400 yards. If you're clear headed you'll know you're more likely to injure someone else than stop the the threat at hand.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You are an idiot and should have any instructor credentials stripped if you think a handgun (most likely something in 9mm out of a stupid sub 3" barrel, because people are lazy and don't carry real guns) would be worth trying to shoot up at a 32nd floor room

 

[Podmonkey]

So if you were there and had your handgun, automatic fire raining down, bodies dropping all around you and you look up and see muzzle flashes... and you're clear headed, controlled... would you take the shot?

I know it might get me booted out of the pistol instructors course but damn right I'd take the shot.

And if dozen 0ther people did the same thing with me I bet we'd hinder him, fifty people would get him.

I think any rational person would be scrambling for cover, not taking a billion to one hail mary potshot.

 

[Podmonkey]

How much elevation would you need for a pistol round to be on target 400 yards away? You'd need vernier sights on the thing!

 

[Exonautic]

How much elevation would you need for a pistol round to be on target 400 yards away? You'd need vernier sights on the thing!

Sks grenade launcher sights??

 

[Edwardteach72]

You have to figure 10 feet per floor (conservative estimate) 32 floors up, that's 320 feet, just shy of 107 yards, 97.5 meters.

Now factor in the distance away from the building let's say you are 100 yards away from the base of the building. Fun little a squared + b squared = c squared
And that is how far if a shot you need to take.

Now looking at the pictures, only enough of the window is busted out to shoot from, plus slightly farther back back due to vantage point.

Please tell me where you teach classes so I can make sure to avoid any of yours or those who let you teach there

 

[Podmonkey]

Sks grenade launcher sights??

If I had a grenade launcher I would take the shot, such being what a grenade launcher excels at.

 

[Frankly]

With an M&P Shield no less.

Tell ya this guy would have shot him, that's a whole lot of alcohol making him brave....

 

[Edwardteach72]

View attachment 19418

With an M&P Shield no less.

Tell ya this guy would have shot him, that's a whole lot of alcohol making him brave....

A shield? Holy fuck you are an idiot. Please tell me where you got your instructor license from, are you Voda?

Either you have some mental issues or you are hella trolling