Would you consider a survival shelter useful or a good idea?

[carpediem]

With the nuke talk being revived, it has also caused me to think about the old nuke shelter. Remember when many buildings had the black and yellow fallout shelter signs on them? Those disappeared pretty quickly after the Cold War dwindled. Could a shelter be a good thing? What scenarios would it not be good for? If you had one, how would you set it up? All storage and little living space? What about water, heat, toilet, electric and defense? Do you make it obvious and hardened so unless you drop a bunker buster, you won't get in? Or, do you go stealth and bury it for the whole out of sight, out of mind approach?
Thoughts?

 

[Marine Cpl]

If I had the money it would be a good idea.

 

[carpediem]

If I had the money it would be a good idea.

You can build one in phases and sections.

 

[Darth]

If I had unlimited funds, I'd have one of the huge ones that look like a suburban street corner.

This Creepy Fallout Shelter Is A Suburban Dream From The 1970s

 

[carpediem]

If I had unlimited funds, I'd have one of the huge ones that look like a suburban street corner.

This Creepy Fallout Shelter Is A Suburban Dream From The 1970s

That thing is amazing! Talk about easy shelter living! It would make being stuck in there a bit easier! I would hate to see the price tag for that though.

 

[Darth]

That thing is amazing! Talk about easy shelter living! It would make being stuck in there a bit easier! I would hate to see the price tag for that though.

That wasn't even the place I was looking for. I've seen them with multiple 2-story houses and bits of road.

 

[carpediem]

That wasn't even the place I was looking for. I've seen them with multiple 2-story houses and bits of road.

Really? Where the hell did you see that? Makes the layout I envisioned seem so rudimentary, albeit incredibly more affordable.

 

[Darth]

Really? Where the hell did you see that? Makes the layout I envisioned seem so rudimentary, albeit incredibly more affordable.

I've been looking for the link myself.

The one I saw looked like a movie studio sound stage, so you had 2 story houses, sans the roofs, and an intersection of road. I saw it years ago. I wish I had the pics/link, because it was unreal.

 

[carpediem]

I've been looking for the link myself.

The one I saw looked like a movie studio sound stage, so you had 2 story houses, sans the roofs, and an intersection of road. I saw it years ago. I wish I had the pics/link, because it was unreal.

That is incredible. I have seen the people build some fairly elaborate shelters, but never anything that mimics an actual neighborhood. Not sure how I would exactly feel about it once a few weeks had passed though. Seems the falsity of it might grate on me after a while. Fake trees and grass and all.

 

[Darth]

That is incredible. I have seen the people build some fairly elaborate shelters, but never anything that mimics an actual neighborhood. Not sure how I would exactly feel about it once a few weeks had passed though. Seems the falsity of it might grate on me after a while. Fake trees and grass and all.

Oh no doubt, it would, but I'd go stir crazy far faster in a prison cell I feel.

If you watch some shows like "Lockup" some inmates have forgotten what a tree even looks like.

 

[carpediem]

Oh no doubt, it would, but I'd go stir crazy far faster in a prison cell I feel.

If you watch some shows like "Lockup" some inmates have forgotten what a tree even looks like.

Agreed!

 

[Darth]

Agreed!

Plus, just think, you'd be PRESIDENT, of the entire world you live in!

 

[carpediem]

Plus, just think, you'd be PRESIDENT, of the entire world you live in!

Such as it would be, tiny and a population of likely less than ten!

 

[Snappo]

With the nuke talk being revived, it has also caused me to think about the old nuke shelter. Remember when many buildings had the black and yellow fallout shelter signs on them? Those disappeared pretty quickly after the Cold War dwindled. Could a shelter be a good thing? What scenarios would it not be good for? If you had one, how would you set it up? All storage and little living space? What about water, heat, toilet, electric and defense? Do you make it obvious and hardened so unless you drop a bunker buster, you won't get in? Or, do you go stealth and bury it for the whole out of sight, out of mind approach?
Thoughts?

I'm in the midst of rebuilding a 250 year old home; but at some point when that is done my evil plan is a modern shelter of some sort. Nice ones seem to start at about $40K; which is very reasonable. I figure I will either give it access via the basement of the main house or one of the barns. And yeah - I am thinking water, heat, toilet, electric, and a bunch of food and weapons. Check out this one for $36K:
See This Hidden Trap Door In The Ground? Just Wait Til You See What's Down There... WHOA.

 

[Snappo]

If I had unlimited funds, I'd have one of the huge ones that look like a suburban street corner.

This Creepy Fallout Shelter Is A Suburban Dream From The 1970s

Remember the shelter from that Brandon Frasier movie?
Blast from the Past (1999) - IMDb

 

[Darth]

When the nuke hits and we all seal into our fallout shelters, calling it right now, I'm playing Fallout 3, NV, and 4 in a marathon the first few days!

 

[Darth]

Remember the shelter from that Brandon Frasier movie?
Blast from the Past (1999) - IMDb

Who?

What movie?

 

[HIghlander]

Nobody asked but here's my thoughts on a Shelter.

1- no matter how good the entryway is concealed it will be found with enough time.
2- Neighbors would know of it and blab it to others, especially if SHTF and hungry.
3- Bury in the ground in remote location, need to build trail or road to get materials to site. Would need to plant trees and wait at least 10 years ( 20 is probably better) for growth to look almost normal with surrounding growth after destroying trail or road.
4- Conventional venting is a marker that something is there and out of place with the natural surroundings.
5- Generator engine exhaust will travel and be noticeable.
6- Solar panels are huge for your needs and the ventilation pipes would be visible.
7- Heat (steam) from generator will be seen in cold weather.
8- Ventilation would need to be closed if nuclear or biologicals are present, Oxygen generation?
9- Radio antenna concealment?
10- Someone dies while in there, what to do with the body?

These are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head, Not against one but I do have questions that I feel are important.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Max out your reloading components, hide in the shop till the rad levels go down. Two weeks of uninterrupted reloading. Dual purpose lead.

 

[Snappo]

Nobody asked but here's my thoughts on a Shelter.

1- no matter how good the entryway is concealed it will be found with enough time.
2- Neighbors would know of it and blab it to others, especially if SHTF and hungry.
3- Bury in the ground in remote location, need to build trail or road to get materials to site. Would need to plant trees and wait at least 10 years ( 20 is probably better) for growth to look almost normal with surrounding growth after destroying trail or road.
4- Conventional venting is a marker that something is there and out of place with the natural surroundings.
5- Generator engine exhaust will travel and be noticeable.
6- Solar panels are huge for your needs and the ventilation pipes would be visible.
7- Heat (steam) from generator will be seen in cold weather.
8- Ventilation would need to be closed if nuclear or biologicals are present, Oxygen generation?
9- Radio antenna concealment?
10- Someone dies while in there, what to do with the body?

These are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head, Not against one but I do have questions that I feel are important.

For 10; is "eat it" a choice? Soylent green.......

 

[Criticalt]

Ive thought about this quite a bit.
After all the work weve done with preparing our property, a fallout type shelter just seems natural but not likely. If a nuke hits, im dead I guess.

 

[Snappo]

Ive thought about this quite a bit.
After all the work weve done with preparing our property, a fallout type shelter just seems natural but not likely. If a nuke hits, im dead I guess.

If you are talking about one dirty bomb in NYC or Boston; OK that could happen. If you are talking about Russia, China, or North Korea sending so many weapons that Upstate NY might be affected; never happen in our lifetime. That's a no win situation for any developed country to cause damage to the biggest economy on earth.

 

[carpediem]

Ive thought about this quite a bit.
After all the work weve done with preparing our property, a fallout type shelter just seems natural but not likely. If a nuke hits, im dead I guess.

Depends on your proximity to a potential target and the yield of the weapons that would be used. I remember a time in the 80s when I was concerned about this and approximated the diameters of potential hits on potential nearby targets. Griffiss AFB in Rome is still and active military site and thus likely a target. And certainly NYC. Niagara Falls Intl Airport used to have a TFW of F-16s there, but they are a transport unit now. Still a likely target. Albany and Fort Drum too. NY could get hammered if it were to go down like that.

 

[Snappo]

Depends on your proximity to a potential target and the yield of the weapons that would be used. I remember a time in the 80s when I was concerned about this and approximated the diameters of potential hits on potential nearby targets. Griffiss AFB in Rome is still and active military site and thus likely a target. And certainly NYC. Niagara Falls Intl Airport used to have a TFW of F-16s there, but they are a transport unit now. Still a likely target. Albany and Fort Drum too. NY could get hammered if it were to go down like that.

But you would be concerned with retaliation. So before you worried about a nothing target like Niagara Falls you would be more concerned with every carrier group, every sub, and all those silos out in the midwest. So clearly NY would go down in wave 2 after you put an end to retaliation capability. Who has the ability to do that? Russia maybe? On a good day? I can't see them doing that anyway. They do a little export/import with us; but they do a lot of export/import with countries that rely on our agricultural output. Starving countries can't afford to buy stuff from Russia.

 

[carpediem]

But you would be concerned with retaliation. So before you worried about a nothing target like Niagara Falls you would be more concerned with every carrier group, every sub, and all those silos out in the midwest. So clearly NY would go down in wave 2 after you put an end to retaliation capability. Who has the ability to do that? Russia maybe? On a good day? I can't see them doing that anyway. They do a little export/import with us; but they do a lot of export/import with countries that rely on our agricultural output. Starving countries can't afford to buy stuff from Russia.

Russia would be the only state player on the planet with enough arms and the knowledge of our military to execute a first strike that eliminates our ability for a massive retaliatory strike. Their naval assets would be tasked with destroying our navy, not their ICBMs. They are also aware that once their launch is detected and verified, retaliation is guaranteed to visit itself on their cities. Their frontline bombers would launch as many weapons at whatever silos we have left in an effort to lessen the blow, but they would still be in trouble. They have also modernized and expanded their capabilities, while ours have atrophied under the disarmament illusion. Once the atomic genie was out of the bottle, there will never be a world without atomic weapons, ever, unless they are all used and there is no world as we now know it.

 

[Snappo]

Russia would be the only state player on the planet with enough arms and the knowledge of our military to execute a first strike that eliminates our ability for a massive retaliatory strike. Their naval assets would be tasked with destroying our navy, not their ICBMs. They are also aware that once their launch is detected and verified, retaliation is guaranteed to visit itself on their cities. Their frontline bombers would launch as many weapons at whatever silos we have left in an effort to lessen the blow, but they would still be in trouble. They have also modernized and expanded their capabilities, while ours have atrophied under the disarmament illusion. Once the atomic genie was out of the bottle, there will never be a world without atomic weapons, ever, unless they are all used and there is no world as we now know it.

You think Russia would go for it? What would they gain that would offset the losses to them and their allies? Long and short term?

 

[Jem45472]

Nukes come our way, I'm going to watch the fireworks.

 

[meketrefe]

Folks have done amazing things with shipping containers 6-10ft below and nobody can find them. There are many ways to conceal effectively. Fuel cell generators are not that expensive anymore and they are emissions free. There are thermal and ventilation systems that work w/o electricity and
use geothermal differential systems to more the air and heating.
What is wrong with a bit of radiation? There is more radiation in Ipanema beach than in the old town of Chernovyl. People live there (illegally) since soon after the alleged catastrophe and nobody has gotten sick. They have been eating the mushrooms and vegetables from their own gardens.
Cold war era fear is overrated.

 

[Snappo]

Folks have done amazing things with shipping containers 6-10ft below and nobody can find them.

My understanding is those are a really bad idea. Apparently they cave in.
Why you shouldn't bury shipping containers for bunkers

 

[meketrefe]

I should have explained... the way they do it they are laid as the "shell" structure and then reinforced with some beams and rebar steel , treated with
primer and anti-corrosion treatment and then concrete is also poured between an external Styrofoam layer and the structure. Others use side structures similar to earth ships made of
recycle tires and rebar steel and packed dirt.
More expensive than just a container that might collapse but cheaper than bunker kits.
People use those as interim storage / sellers but then can take people in for a period of time according
to whatever design and resources.