Colorado Police Accountability Bill

[Marine Cpl]

Colorado passed this police accountability bill. Who here is against it based on the highlights?

Colorado Senate passes sweeping police accountability bill in 32-1 vote; bill moves to House

The Colorado Senate on Tuesday passed in a nearly unanimous vote a police reform and accountability measure brought in the wake of the death of George Floyd and massive demonstrations across the state calling for better accountability for officers and an end to racial injustice.

www.thedenverchannel.com

 

[Blimey]

I'm just actually a bit confused. This is a whole lot of laws, right...? And maybe some of them make sense but...if they are trying to control police behavior there was already a law on the book controlling Chauvin's, hence his arrest and charge. So if he already broke the law and will be punished, why do we need another?

 

[Catskillkid]

It's tough to say with just the highlights.

From the article: "The bill is 21 pages after amendments and contains sweeping changes regarding increasing body-worn camera usage, data collection, liability for officers who use excessive force, a duty for officers to intervene when others are using excessive force, a ban on chokeholds, changes to qualified immunity for officers who acted unlawfully, and when less-lethal munitions can be used by officers, among other things..."

I guess that's not so bad, though, I'm not a cop and can't say for sure how much this would impact how they would work and enforce laws.

Also from the article: "Sen. Julie Gonzales, D-Denver, whose amendment prohibiting officers from using less-lethal projections on protesters to target their heads, pelvis or back and which prohibits the use of chemical agents on crowds before orders are given and time to comply..."

I mean, sure give the crowd a warning before you shoot tear gas. But in the heat of the moment how can you guarantee as an office one of your rubber bullets isn't going to hit someone in the head?

 

[Catskillkid]

I'm just actually a bit confused. This is a whole lot of laws, right...? And maybe some of them make sense but...if they are trying to control police behavior there was already a law on the book controlling Chauvin's, hence his arrest and charge. So if he already broke the law and will be punished, why do we need another?

At the end of the day, this in my opinion is it. Chauvin allegedly used excessive force that resulted in the death of an unarmed man in police custody. He was fired, arrested, and is being brought up on charges that will work its way through the criminal justice system like any other. Sounds like justice is being done if you ask me. But what do I know, I'm just a small town part-time judge.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It makes use of body cameras mandatory even for SWAT raids.

It makes a partner accountable for not stopping excessive force. The way it is now for the most part, they aren’t held accountable. It was just this one time that they were because it was such a high profile case. This makes it official. So now there is no excuse for not checking your partner. If you want to toe the blue line of silence, your job is gone.

It also takes away qualified immunity if an officer commits a crime while in the performance of their duties.

It requires that if a weapon is pointed at another, a report has to be made. No more fearing for my life in situations like in this video below where the officer uses a BS excuse to point it for an ID refusal.

 

[Apeman]

I'm just actually a bit confused. This is a whole lot of laws, right...? And maybe some of them make sense but...if they are trying to control police behavior there was already a law on the book controlling Chauvin's, hence his arrest and charge. So if he already broke the law and will be punished, why do we need another?

They make new laws to make themselves feel better. It's the same thing they've been doing with gun laws. There are already so many laws on the books but they just reword stuff to show they passed another law

 

[holdover]

Its a feel good sandwich . Most of the laws are already on the books. Does nothing.

 

[meketrefe]

Any news about the new looters and thugs accountability bill ?

 

[Airborneguy]

I can say that most cops here just don’t care because they don’t plan on doing anything, which remains fully legal as of now.

 

[holdover]

If police stop policing the ""oppressed "" areas, in 6 months they will beg to have some law and order. Give them what they want , Lets see how that works out for them. No police protection for anyone or any business . Let them police themselves . And I don't want to hear one word about how the cops don't care, The cops refuse to help , yadda yadda Yadda.Take your medicine.

 

[ManrisFrack]

Like any knee-jerk, rushed legislation, it's probably full of unintended consequences. The highlights sound decent but the devil is always in the details.

Passing laws at the behest of the mob is a terrible way to govern.

 

[meketrefe]

.... The cops refuse to help , yadda yadda Yadda.Take your medicine.

The most amazing thing is that they want to pass laws to change a lot of things but then nobody there to enforce those laws
so basically one thing will negate the other... so in other words, they are full of caca. This is just a diversion following the
sensationalist agenda to sell news as part of the entertainment package.
They way I see it they are doing Trump a favor and all he has to do is to stay quiet and watch them self destroy, that btw, seems to be a very
hard thing for Trump to do since he enjoys attention.

 

[meketrefe]

Like any knee-jerk, rushed legislation, it's probably full of unintended consequences. The highlights sound decent but the devil is always in the details.

Passing laws at the behest of the mob is a terrible way to govern.

A WROL situation will invite the military if safety cannot be guaranteed.
That is one of the many roles of the police once a region is stabilized and there are some laws in place.

or lets leave it to Jesus to fix it .....

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Jesus, this guy right here...

 

[holdover]

They have no plan, They have no judicial system, They have no laws, they have no law enforcement they have no prison's they have no logistical way to accomplish what they are asking for. It will be a giant shit show .

Now if you step back and look at it , what they are asking for is separation and independence from the US, and US laws. They are not saying that outright, but if you refuse to comply with the laws of the country and want to make your own laws and law enforcement with your own leaders then Yes , they are asking to separate from the US in manner of speaking. They have said that capitalism and law enforcement must be destroyed. They are talking about having their own country.

 

[GOPerfect]

I need to say, I did not read this Bullshit bill. I do not care too.

I am against it, yes, I am against and I did NOT read it.

This is all just feel good shit. Society will be hurt by whatever they come up with. Period.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I’m for the mandatory use of body cameras. I’m for the loss of qualified immunity when a crime is committed. I’m for the official discipline of officers who look the other way when unnecessary force is used. I’m also for oversight when a sidearm is pointed at someone.

Guess I’m for the bill.

 

[GOPerfect]

The camera thing. I am a huge fan of the camera on every officer. Beat cops, supervisors, LT's, Capt's... All of them. Who is willing to cover those charges? Outfitting an entire department with cameras is stupid pricey.

Unnecessary force is a really tough one. Not being sarcastic. Force is in the eye of the beholder and user of said force. Tough call.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The camera thing. I am a huge fan of the camera on every officer. Beat cops, supervisors, LT's, Capt's... All of them. Who is willing to cover those charges? Outfitting an entire department with cameras is stupid pricey.

Unnecessary force is a really tough one. Not being sarcastic. Force is in the eye of the beholder and user of said force. Tough call.

The cost of cameras is cheaper than a few lawsuits that are already in the budget. As far as unnecessary force being in the eye of the beholder...Well obvious unnecessary force. IE. Something like this.


Or this.


Or this.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

The camera thing. I am a huge fan of the camera on every officer. Beat cops, supervisors, LT's, Capt's... All of them. Who is willing to cover those charges? Outfitting an entire department with cameras is stupid pricey.

Unnecessary force is a really tough one. Not being sarcastic. Force is in the eye of the beholder and user of said force. Tough call.

Can I ask you a serious question or two, also related to another thread? I'm not a LEO, don't play one on TV, and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but en route to a call, does dispatch provide at least most of the relevant info they have? Names, nature of call, background info, code ###, etc? While en route, do you try to develop an awareness of the situation you are about to be part of? If you are sent to a domestic violence call involving a person with multiple violent felony convictions or report of a weapon/shots fired, would you be more prepared on arrival to escalate use of force than if you were headed to the local Exxon station because the shopkeeper called in a young kid stealing a candy bar?

I certainly would, but I would like to think I could adjust accordingly if the scene was not as expected. Be safe out there man.

I am also a fan of body cam on every officer to dissuade excessive force and provide supporting evidence. It doesn't surprise me that the NYSP don't use them. There have been more than a couple NYSP officer involved shootings close by in the last few years, and it has been their word vs the dead guy, so...

 

[holdover]

The cost of cameras is cheaper than a few lawsuits that are already in the budget. As far as unnecessary force being in the eye of the beholder...Well obvious unnecessary force. IE. Something like this.


Or this.


Or this.

Here's the thing, Those officers were not trained to act like that. Its sort of like making new gun laws for criminals . It doesn't stop him from committing a crime , just like nobody can stop you from committing a crime today. They are not supposed to act like that. Laws dont stop people from committing crimes, or we would be a crime free society.

So the next time an officer wrongly kills a black man what do you think is going to happen? They are going to freak out again. Theres no Eutopia we can legislate.

Best thing to do is to let them separate from white society , Give them what they ask for , and wash our hands of them . Then they will begin to learn the lessons of economics which they seem to have no clue about and complain that they don't have the money to do what they want and will demand it from the federal government, which they will label as racist when they cant continue to give them money .And that whites keep holding them down. It will never end , ever.

 

[Celt]

I’m for the mandatory use of body cameras. I’m for the loss of qualified immunity when a crime is committed. I’m for the official discipline of officers who look the other way when unnecessary force is used. I’m also for oversight when a sidearm is pointed at someone.

Guess I’m for the bill.

Those points alone I can support. The intent behind passing new laws is for long overdue reform. The floyd incident was just the match that lit the fire. Sure, Chauvin broke from dept protocol and is being punished accordingly, as he should be, but changes are needed with more accountability. More accountability will improve police/community relations, and public trust in LE has taken a beating over the past handful years.

 

[holdover]

And when this new legislation fails? Make more laws?

 

[Celt]

And when this new legislation fails? Make more laws?

I hear that completely, its like "giving in to terrorists". Once you start, it never ends. However, Ive felt that we have needed reforms with more accountability for a while now, not related to this situation. I definitely like the idea of body cameras for all. I think this is something that most in law enforcement would support , and if everybody knows their actions are being recorded all the time it may deter some bad behavior. It certainly won't stop someone intent on doing something bad regardless, but I think it would be a positive move.

 

[holdover]

Theres' always room for improvements, I don't have a beef with that. But nothing that can be done will be enough to appease the Marxist movement which are crying for the death of capitalism And those that enforce slavery on them . The Marxists want to enforce equality by destroying the rich and middle class. They see the police as enforcers of an unfair system They simply cannot ever be appeased until they are in full power .

 

[Catskillkid]

Theres' always room for improvements, I don't have a beef with that. But nothing that can be done will be enough to appease the Marxist movement which are crying for the death of capitalism And those that enforce slavery on them . The Marxists want to enforce equality by destroying the rich and middle class. They see the police as enforcers of an unfair system They simply cannot ever be appeased until they are in full power .

Disagree slightly. Marxists have no problem with the police per se. They just want the police to enforce their edicts.

 

[holdover]

That's correct. What they are saying is that the police are paid by capitalists , that police protect that system .As opposed to a Marxist police force.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Theres' always room for improvements, I don't have a beef with that. But nothing that can be done will be enough to appease the Marxist movement which are crying for the death of capitalism And those that enforce slavery on them . The Marxists want to enforce equality by destroying the rich and middle class. They see the police as enforcers of an unfair system They simply cannot ever be appeased until they are in full power .

You are looking at this wrong from a us vs them BLM movement. It’s not about that. You can be 100 percent against BLM and their actions but still be for police accountability.

Even your enemies are right in some points.

 

[Airborneguy]

I have to say, I’m mostly in agreement with goperfect.

I could break down each and every point, support some, oppose others, but it would be pointless.

The fact of the matter is that the loudest voices in society right now, the only ones allowed to speak without retribution, HATE the police. Therefore, the coming “reforms” will all be geared towards and used to crush police officers regardless of their culpability in incidents which will still occur because the criminal and mentally challenged element will not be changing at all, or will actually get worse.

So considering all of that I have made a cost basis analysis of my career over the last month or so and have decided the only decision is to retire. Many, many of my brothers and sisters have decided to do the same.

My sister’s fiancé has a cousin who works in our pension section. I got her number yesterday. Her instructions to my sister were “please tell him only to call if he is actually going to retire because we are way too busy right now.”

These aren’t rookies leaving. These are seasoned, well-trained veterans. At least 95% of whom (by data) are proven to be positive members of the force who’ve spent years doing good work. They’re feeling like ants not because they “want to be able to keep beating people up” but because they know the reality of policing and know that you can only hide so much.

Eventually you will encounter an EDP or a protestor or a criminal with a darker skin tone who will resist. You will be judged and it won’t be fairly weighed. You will lose your freedom and everything you worked for over the years for your family and yourself.

So it’s over. Kaput. Reforms don’t matter anymore. Anyone who takes a police job has a mental illness as far as I am concerned. Anyone who can retire and doesn’t probably lost their pension in a past divorce or has a mental illness as well. I don’t care what reforms those people face because they are doing it to themselves.

In 9 months I’ll be chillin’, all of this behind me. Years of experience intervening and helping domestic violence victims just wasted because it is not worth the risk to self for me to keep helping people.

Doesn’t matter to me. I’ll be a member of the check of the month club.

 

[GOPerfect]

The cost of cameras is cheaper than a few lawsuits that are already in the budget. As far as unnecessary force being in the eye of the beholder...Well obvious unnecessary force. IE. Something like this.


Or this.


Or this.

Guy in wheelchair was resisting and hit the cop in the face. Wheelchair guy lost. I am okay with it.

First video, guy was not following simple instructions.

Third video, I did not watch. Bored with these type of videos.

 

[GOPerfect]

Can I ask you a serious question or two, also related to another thread? I'm not a LEO, don't play one on TV, and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but en route to a call, does dispatch provide at least most of the relevant info they have? Names, nature of call, background info, code ###, etc? While en route, do you try to develop an awareness of the situation you are about to be part of? If you are sent to a domestic violence call involving a person with multiple violent felony convictions or report of a weapon/shots fired, would you be more prepared on arrival to escalate use of force than if you were headed to the local Exxon station because the shopkeeper called in a young kid stealing a candy bar?

I certainly would, but I would like to think I could adjust accordingly if the scene was not as expected. Be safe out there man.

I am also a fan of body cam on every officer to dissuade excessive force and provide supporting evidence. It doesn't surprise me that the NYSP don't use them. There have been more than a couple NYSP officer involved shootings close by in the last few years, and it has been their word vs the dead guy, so...

Sometimes yes, most of the times, officers have very little information in regards to the call.