Biden Promises To End Traditional 401(k)-Style Retirement Savings Tax Benefits

[Deplorable Me]

Joe Biden Promises To End Traditional 401(k)-Style Retirement Savings Tax Benefits. What’s That Mean?

Will employers still sponsor retirement plans if tax deferral is removed? Plus: why retirement credit supporters are comparing apples and oranges.

www.forbes.com

I'm predicting an angry reaction in the stock market. Forget the billionaire tax, democrats are going to flank us and bone us otherwise.

 

[Cooolone]

Democraps are going to get real creative on how to extract as much $ as possible to pay for all the handouts...

And meanwhile, those of us who were disciplined enough to save for a rainy day and weathered this bullshit get left in the background. No benefits, no stimulus checks, nothing but more taxes, fees, hidden costs...

Fuck them!

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Democraps are going to get real creative on how to extract as much $ as possible to pay for all the handouts...

And meanwhile, those of us who were disciplined enough to save for a rainy day and weathered this bullshit get left in the background. No benefits, no stimulus checks, nothing but more taxes, fees, hidden costs...

Fuck them!

Sounds a little like communism to me.

 

[SonOfSun]

I'm in favor of getting rid of 401ks or at least changing them dramatically, nothing to do with Biden's plan though.

401k's essentially force you to fund large multinationals to work against you or you can't save effectively for retirement. Every company 401k I've ever had has limited fund options. things like an S&P500 index, etc. Well companies like Facebook, etc. make up a large portion of those indexes. So your choices end up being to help fund companies like Facebook, etc. through your retirement investing and they do things that you don't want to support -OR- to put the money in shit returns like cap preservation or LI bonds and not make enough return on investment. Either way you get screwed.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I'm in favor of getting rid of 401ks or at least changing them dramatically, nothing to do with Biden's plan though.

401k's essentially force you to fund large multinationals to work against you or you can't save effectively for retirement. Every company 401k I've ever had has limited fund options. things like an S&P500 index, etc. Well companies like Facebook, etc. make up a large portion of those indexes. So your choices end up being to help fund companies like Facebook, etc. through your retirement investing and they do things that you don't want to support -OR- to put the money in shit returns like cap preservation or LI bonds and not make enough return on investment. Either way you get screwed.

You sound like "SonOfSanders".

 

[SonOfSun]

You sound like "SonOfSanders".

Not really, I still support a tax deferred retirement savings plan, if the 401k is to stick around I think it should be mandatory for you to have a much larger array of fund options.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I'm in favor of getting rid of 401ks or at least changing them dramatically, nothing to do with Biden's plan though.

401k's essentially force you to fund large multinationals to work against you or you can't save effectively for retirement. Every company 401k I've ever had has limited fund options. things like an S&P500 index, etc. Well companies like Facebook, etc. make up a large portion of those indexes. So your choices end up being to help fund companies like Facebook, etc. through your retirement investing and they do things that you don't want to support -OR- to put the money in shit returns like cap preservation or LI bonds and not make enough return on investment. Either way you get screwed.

I work for a big fortune 250 type company and I love my choices. I even have very specific targeted funds like a semiconductor fund, transportation index fund, IT services portfolio, as examples etc.


I don't want to change anything.


Fuck Biden

 

[spat]

Not really, I still support a tax deferred retirement savings plan, if the 401k is to stick around I think it should be mandatory for you to have a much larger array of fund options.

Yes, because "it should be mandatory" always leads to more freedom.

How about they just reduce the tax burden so far that you don't *need* to have tax deferred loopholes in order to save money.

IDK, call me crazy, but I think people should be allowed to do what they want with the money they earn, and i don't think some bureaucratic monstrosity should be dictating choices to them.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Not really, I still support a tax deferred retirement savings plan, if the 401k is to stick around I think it should be mandatory for you to have a much larger array of fund options.

Mine has lots and lots of options.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Not really, I still support a tax deferred retirement savings plan, if the 401k is to stick around I think it should be mandatory for you to have a much larger array of fund options.

Find an employer with a better plan. What you're bitching about has nothing to do with the tax code and everything to do with what the employer offers in the plan.

I love my 401k. I have an entire section of it that is self directed and made up of funds, ETF's, and a few select individual stocks I selected myself.

 

[Blimey]

according to Vanguard’s 2020 survey, most savers do not target this “get the full match” level of savings at all. 34% of savers contribute less than needed to get the full match, a surprising 49% contribute more, and only 18% contribute exactly enough to get that full match, and nothing more

I have never read anything about savings/investing/retirement that gave me any impression other than that a very substantial number of Americans are myopic, impulse-enslaved people. This is also why 401ks have not been a good replacement for pensions for the middle class. A lot of people are simply too stupid to understand it, have no ability to delay gratification at all, and so do not properly save. Even excluding those who are so on the edge financially they cannot even find 5% of their paycheck, we are left with millions who could--who could find that five or six percent, but who never bothered to, yet always did find money for an annual cruise or payments for their fishing boat.

As for biden's plan I'm sure it will screw those who value retirement and plan diligently for it.

 

[masterswimmer]

I'm in favor of getting rid of 401ks or at least changing them dramatically, nothing to do with Biden's plan though.

401k's essentially force you to fund large multinationals to work against you or you can't save effectively for retirement. Every company 401k I've ever had has limited fund options. things like an S&P500 index, etc. Well companies like Facebook, etc. make up a large portion of those indexes. So your choices end up being to help fund companies like Facebook, etc. through your retirement investing and they do things that you don't want to support -OR- to put the money in shit returns like cap preservation or LI bonds and not make enough return on investment. Either way you get screwed.

Doesn't sounds like you know much about the stock market and equity issues.

How about a little stock market 101 class.

The only time your investment, including the funds going into a 401-k, are funding a company's coffers is during the IPO (that's the Initial Public Offering in case you didn't know). Any purchase subsequent to the IPO is through the secondary market. None of those funds make it to the company whose stock your fund bought.

 

[Deplorable Me]

In our future?

Redirect Notice

 

[SonOfSun]

Doesn't sounds like you know much about the stock market and equity issues.

How about a little stock market 101 class.

The only time your investment, including the funds going into a 401-k, are funding a company's coffers is during the IPO (that's the Initial Public Offering in case you didn't know). Any purchase subsequent to the IPO is through the secondary market. None of those funds make it to the company whose stock your fund bought.

Mutual funds pool money from the investors and use that money to buy other securities. The mutual fund takes that money and buys shares to match the portfolio's prescribed investments. Yeah, of course the corporation whose stocks they are buying can't just create new shares on it's own whim to sell and dilute the value of the existing shares, but ultimately that money that gets pumped into the market through the 401k system *DOES* support those companies and empower them.

 

[spat]

Mutual funds pool money from the investors and use that money to buy other securities. The mutual fund takes that money and buys shares to match the portfolio's prescribed investments. Yeah, of course the corporation whose stocks they are buying can't just create new shares on it's own whim to sell and dilute the value of the existing shares, but ultimately that money that gets pumped into the market through the 401k system *DOES* support those companies and empower them.

So, maybe you should buy stock in the companies you *don't* like so that you can vote on how they're run ?

 

[SonOfSun]

So, maybe you should buy stock in the companies you *don't* like so that you can vote on how they're run ?

401k sourced shares don't have voting rights. That's part of the problem as well, I didn't even go into that part....

 

[Deplorable Me]

So, maybe you should buy stock in the companies you *don't* like so that you can vote on how they're run ?

Maybe he can purchase his employer?

Google Search

 

[spat]

401k sourced shares don't have voting rights. That's part of the problem as well, I didn't even go into that part....

There are other retirement options besides a 401k.

Nobody's forcing you to use one.

 

[masterswimmer]

Mutual funds pool money from the investors and use that money to buy other securities. The mutual fund takes that money and buys shares to match the portfolio's prescribed investments. Yeah, of course the corporation whose stocks they are buying can't just create new shares on it's own whim to sell and dilute the value of the existing shares, but ultimately that money that gets pumped into the market through the 401k system *DOES* support those companies and empower them.

Zero percent accuracy in that post. Not one cent supports the company.

 

[SonOfSun]

Zero percent accuracy in that post. Not one cent supports the company.

Do companies own any of their own shares?

Are share prices higher than they would be if tens of millions of people weren't automatically dumping money into their 401K weekly/biweekly for months....years...decades?

 

[masterswimmer]

Do companies own any of their own shares?

Are share prices higher than they would be if tens of millions of people weren't automatically dumping money into their 401K weekly/biweekly for months....years...decades?

Blockbuster, GE, JC Penney, Sears, Montgomery Ward, Radio Shack, Compaq, Kodak, Circuit City, PanAmthe list is endless of companies that also owned their own shares and saw their investments dwindle away to a pittance, or zero. Owning shares of their own company doesn't mean one cent of a purchase I make goes back to the company. Absolutely zero of my purchase (401-k or otherwise) gets back to the company.

 

[Steal2B]

Biden was a moron even before his brain rot sped up. His owners and donors won't let him kill IRAs and 401ks but the progressive wing would love to raid any nest eggs.

 

[SonOfSun]

Blockbuster, GE, JC Penney, Sears, Montgomery Ward, Radio Shack, Compaq, Kodak, Circuit City, PanAmthe list is endless of companies that also owned their own shares and saw their investments dwindle away to a pittance, or zero. Owning shares of their own company doesn't mean one cent of a purchase I make goes back to the company. Absolutely zero of my purchase (401-k or otherwise) gets back to the company.

Does the tens of millions of people automatically dumping money weekly/biweekly into their 401k inflate the purchase price of stocks that the funds hold?

 

[spat]

Does the tens of millions of people automatically dumping money weekly/biweekly into their 401k inflate the purchase price of stocks that the funds hold?

If your argument is that the entire global stock market is a ponzi scheme and fiat currency is a scam, I'll agree with you.

But, it's what we've got and nobody has a plan to fix it that doesn't involve a financial apocalypse the likes of which the world has never seen.

 

[Steal2B]

Does the tens of millions of people automatically dumping money weekly/biweekly into their 401k inflate the purchase price of stocks that the funds hold?

No. Think about it, if that was the case there would already be massive swings on common payday dates tied the calendar. I suggest you look at some continuing education night courses for retirement planning, and read some fund prospectus documents, a thread response will not provide enough information.

 

[GOPerfect]

A whole lot of stupid and ignorant in this thread.

 

[meketrefe]

The US cannot be even a little bit socialist. Basically it is too big, too diverse and you also need a very civilized population
and competent politicians that show accountability.
So no, it will not work, not even small portions of it.
All these plans are based on knee jerking reactive BS but have no basis.
If this was a private business plan and they had to demonstrate investors how they were going to capitalize it would end up
in the trash first go round and politicians would be fired due to lack of experience and proven results.

 

[MothMan]

Man, am I glad I have a 403(b) not a 401k.

 

[BDinPutnam]

A whole lot of stupid and ignorant in this thread.

Bears repeating.

 

[masterswimmer]

Does the tens of millions of people automatically dumping money weekly/biweekly into their 401k inflate the purchase price of stocks that the funds hold?

Nice investment Utopia right there.

Read my quote below again. That list of failed companies, all quite well known I might add and once quite profitable as well, didn't survive because "tens of millions of people automatically dumping money weekly/biweekly into their 401k....".

So in answer to your question, NO the share prices don't always inflate. It would be nice if the share prices of all my investments only went up. Unfortunately I live in the real world where the tide of stock prices does ebb and flow.

Blockbuster, GE, JC Penney, Sears, Montgomery Ward, Radio Shack, Compaq, Kodak, Circuit City, PanAm the list is endless of companies that also owned their own shares and saw their investments dwindle away to a pittance, or zero.