Advocating overthrow of government through violence or armed resistance

FP1201 · Wednesday at 11:19 AM

Brawny71 said:
I believe advocating undermining US government through use of force or violence is still against the law. Just curious how many of these advocates are on the Internet right now. #thinblueline #lawenforcement | Kyle Reyes | 152 comments

It's somewhat confusing that our Founding Documents not only say, but demand the overthrow of a tyrannical government, however subsequent Laws have ultimate penalties for sedition, treason, and Armed Rebellion...Seems like conflicting and highly subjective ideologies.

OK, so now you've run down and sedated a 12 ton Bull Elephant...now WTF are you going to do when it wakes up?
Our Government doesn't need to be overthrown, it needs a good enema to flush out shit that's been in Office well over twenty five years.

Zerex · Wednesday at 11:34 AM

The left is encouraging this.

I can see the cracks in society, due mostly to the lawless outlaw democrat officials who have shitcanned the Federal Code in the blue states.

Will the 7 or 8 blue states, form a Confederacy and secede.?
The CBS.....Confederation of Blue States?

The usual suspects would lead it, and as a new country, could sign alliances with China, to come and protect it.

FP1201 · Wednesday at 3:04 PM

Zerex said:
The left is encouraging this.

I can see the cracks in society, due mostly to the lawless outlaw democrat officials who have shitcanned the Federal Code in the blue states.

Will the 7 or 8 blue states, form a Confederacy and secede.?
The CBS.....Confederation of Blue States?

The usual suspects would lead it, and as a new country, could sign alliances with China, to come and protect it.

That's generally how communists work, the up side of which is the commies that came to "protect" the fledgling leaders would execute them first as soon as their usefulness expires.
Even conquerors detest traitors as they know eventually they will betray their new Master the same as they did their countrymen.

TEOTWAWKI inc. · Wednesday at 7:45 PM

Brawny71 said:
Just curious how many of these advocates are on the Internet right now.

I'm here. I want this as much as anybody.

holdover · Wednesday at 8:04 PM

Dude you dont have to fire a shot! give them a few states, under the condition that they all have to live there . Id buy that. Get the fuck out and dont come back

GOPerfect · Wednesday at 8:17 PM

This is in fact, against the law.

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

FP1201 · Wednesday at 9:47 PM

GOPerfect said:
This is in fact, against the law.

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Well we shouldn't need guns to protect against a tyrannical government if it's illegal to overthrow it.
The same government that wrote that did so to protect themselves from those they would subjugate. the people they're supposed to serve....look at most of the Laws dealing with interactions between the Public and Government are to protect their sorry asses behind a Flag of Public Service making themselves exempt and a protected class...Tyrannical Cops aren't the only ones that go on power trips. edited to fix grammatical errors.

Defilade · Wednesday at 10:30 PM

The Declaration of Independence says we have the right to abolish the government and institute a new one. They gave everyone a loophole. Nobody's taking it so their conscience is clear as they fuck everyone over.

GOPerfect · Wednesday at 11:21 PM

Defilade said:
The Declaration of Independence says we have the right to abolish the government and institute a new one. They gave everyone a loophole. Nobody's taking it so their conscience is clear as they fuck everyone over.

Kind of... Not really....

Declaration of Independence (1776): Philosophical, political justification for the colonies to break from Britain.
U.S. Constitution (1789): The actual law of the land; creates the government and sets legal rules.

The Declaration expresses a moral argument (“it is the Right of the People”)—it’s aspirational and theoretical. It is not enforceable law today. It does not grant Americans a legal right to overthrow the government.

GOPerfect · Wednesday at 11:26 PM

Constitution is the law

The Constitution establishes legal mechanisms for change: voting, amendments, impeachment, recall (in some states), petitions, etc.
Any attempt to forcibly “alter or abolish” the government outside these mechanisms is illegal under U.S. law, and would be considered treason or insurrection (Article III, Section 3; 18 U.S. Code § 2383).

GOPerfect · Wednesday at 11:41 PM

There is so much confusion and word splitting these days.

None of our Justices, IMO, fully comprehend the true meanings and our Rights.

They all have an agenda....

Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson often spoke of the people as a safeguard against government overreach.
Quote from 1787:

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

James Madison

Known as the “Father of the Constitution” and primary author of the Bill of Rights.
In Federalist Papers and letters:

He saw a well-regulated militia as a check on both foreign threats and potential domestic tyranny.

In 1788, Madison wrote about people’s right to bear arms in relation to militias as a safeguard against a standing army being used oppressively.

Patrick Henry

Famous for “Give me liberty, or give me death!”
Advocated armed citizenry to protect freedom from government encroachment.
Strongly supported including a right to bear arms in the Constitution to prevent tyranny.

George Mason

Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights, which inspired the Second Amendment.
In 1776:

He argued that the people have the right to armed resistance if the government fails to protect their liberties.

Founding context

The general theme: armed militias and citizens were a check on a potentially oppressive central government.
This was especially relevant because the new United States had no large standing army, which many feared could become a tool of tyranny.

Grimscale · Thursday at 7:56 AM

GOPerfect said:
Constitution is the law

The Constitution establishes legal mechanisms for change: voting, amendments, impeachment, recall (in some states), petitions, etc.

Any attempt to forcibly “alter or abolish” the government outside these mechanisms is illegal under U.S. law, and would be considered treason or insurrection (Article III, Section 3; 18 U.S. Code § 2383).

And when a government seeks to exist outside it specific legal mechanism it is no longer a recognized form of government, thus losing any and all protections of 18 U.S. Code § 2383.

Is removing an un-Constitutional government really treason or insurrection?

Defilade · Thursday at 10:03 AM

GOPerfect said:
Constitution is the law

The Constitution establishes legal mechanisms for change: voting, amendments, impeachment, recall (in some states), petitions, etc.

Any attempt to forcibly “alter or abolish” the government outside these mechanisms is illegal under U.S. law, and would be considered treason or insurrection (Article III, Section 3; 18 U.S. Code § 2383).

Nope! We have been operating under “Maritime Law” with each state, county, city and divisions or agencies have been operating under as corporations. Common law is the real law. and Contracts makes the law. Our current Government is a fraud as it has been usurped into a Corporation.

Tisto · Thursday at 11:21 AM

GOPerfect said:
Constitution is the law

The Constitution establishes legal mechanisms for change: voting, amendments, impeachment, recall (in some states), petitions, etc.

Any attempt to forcibly “alter or abolish” the government outside these mechanisms is illegal under U.S. law, and would be considered treason or insurrection (Article III, Section 3; 18 U.S. Code § 2383).

This is why if you're going to poison the King, you'd better make damn sure it kills him.

Robin · Thursday at 11:39 AM

Should say duly elected government, not the domain elected government. When we had the Patriot Act steal our bill of right's Liberty and allowed the NSA to record every last phone call in the country, why can't they track down who is funding the insurrection in Minnesota. Seems like having my Liberty unlawfully taken from me isn't paying the dividends promised. Some entity is reaping the benefits, wonder who?
Robin

FP1201 · Thursday at 8:11 PM

GOPerfect said:
Kind of... Not really....

Declaration of Independence (1776): Philosophical, political justification for the colonies to break from Britain.

U.S. Constitution (1789): The actual law of the land; creates the government and sets legal rules.

The Declaration expresses a moral argument (“it is the Right of the People”)—it’s aspirational and theoretical. It is not enforceable law today. It does not grant Americans a legal right to overthrow the government.

The Declaration was the Death Warrant for every Man that signed it, to the King, it was Treason and back then they didn't give much of a shit it you were hung or shot, so long as you were made dead.
My inarticulate point is that our founding documents gave the People the power and options to change our Government, and those we placed in power made it illegal to do so.
This Constitutional Convention (It's been called for on and off since at least the 70's) sounds like a good idea until you face the reality that anything and everything could be changed or even scrapped...can you imagine having a Second Amendment Right if democrats held majority in a convention?
It's worked for 250 years because ordinary men in positions of power couldn't easily fuck with it. Remember the Prohibition on Alcohol and it's repeal? The NFA of '34 was attributed to the violence from Prohibition, and of course there was Income Tax and the Federal Reserve that were made possible from changes. (at least I think, could be mistaken)

RedBreast21 · Thursday at 8:39 PM

Every govt makes it illegal to overthrow it. Still doesn't stop the action of overthrow when the tyranny becomes so great, resistance is the only solution. But is our govt now, the reason for overthrow? Some are pushing that narrative. Be careful of what controls your thoughts.

We have been involved in a color revolution for ten years now. The managed decline of the United State at the hands of the UK and EU banking families. It would have been completed by now had Hillary won 2016. Trumps win in 2024, the real Epstein files (leverage) and control of the USD which is firmly in the hands of Trump and the American people, has them in full panic mode. A massive and necessary financial reset is underway and it has the old world bankers contemplating burning the entire world economy down. Every single country in the West has 100% capitulated to Trump. No one asks the obvious question. Why? He walked into Davos and lay waste to globalism and walked out.

The foreign influence in this country would not be tolerated by any other first world military power. We clearly have traitors in Congress and at all levels of our govt, in all agencies. This will not be an easy task to smoke them out. But they are getting smoked out. Maduro in my opinion, walked into that Brooklyn facility way to cocky saying "Happy New Year" to a guard. He is dealing. Those files in Georgia, with Gabard present, sent that clear message of foreign involvement in 2020 election and that could not happen without local support. The democrats signaling now that anything found would be planted by Trump.

Oh 2026 mid-terms will be a spicy year. Calm your mind. We haven't seen the real enemy yet :ROFL:

Celt · Thursday at 9:11 PM

When is it really tyranny and not a temper tantrum that things arent going your way? All politicians keep taking our freedoms, and they have figured out how to do it and get away with it.

If its just a temper tantrum, like the left is having, then you have big trouble coming if you try toboverthrow the gov. But at what point is it really tyranny, to which we have a duty to address? In NY, I believe we are living under a form of tyranny with how our 2a rights are treated, how we are taxed, and restricted.

FP1201 · Friday at 9:58 AM

GOPerfect said:
Kind of... Not really....

Declaration of Independence (1776): Philosophical, political justification for the colonies to break from Britain.

U.S. Constitution (1789): The actual law of the land; creates the government and sets legal rules.

The Declaration expresses a moral argument (“it is the Right of the People”)—it’s aspirational and theoretical. It is not enforceable law today. It does not grant Americans a legal right to overthrow the government.

just remember that one comma has been the contention of meaning in the Second Amendment.

CaseHardened · Friday at 10:10 AM

Ok, a great many Mayors and other fools have declared areas in their cities are NO-GO for ICE.

That's insurrection right there.

I expect it's all just blather so as to appease their fellow Democrat Communists constituents.

But what happens when some "Barney Fife" local PD decides they are going to FORCIBLY stop ICE Agents?

Grimscale · 2026-02-08T06:32:45-0500

CaseHardened said:
But what happens when some "Barney Fife" local PD decides they are going to FORCIBLY stop ICE Agents?

More importantly:
What happens when some "Barney Fife" local PD decides they've had enough of stupid mayors and governors and decides to arrest them if/when they wander through his territory?

Now THAT'S the "anti-government" action I would love to see.

Criticalt · 2026-02-08T10:35:50-0500

GOPerfect said:
There is so much confusion and word splitting these days.

None of our Justices, IMO, fully comprehend the true meanings and our Rights.

They all have an agenda....

Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson often spoke of the people as a safeguard against government overreach.

Quote from 1787:

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

James Madison

Known as the “Father of the Constitution” and primary author of the Bill of Rights.

In Federalist Papers and letters:

He saw a well-regulated militia as a check on both foreign threats and potential domestic tyranny.

In 1788, Madison wrote about people’s right to bear arms in relation to militias as a safeguard against a standing army being used oppressively.

Patrick Henry

Famous for “Give me liberty, or give me death!”

Advocated armed citizenry to protect freedom from government encroachment.

Strongly supported including a right to bear arms in the Constitution to prevent tyranny.

George Mason

Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights, which inspired the Second Amendment.

In 1776:

He argued that the people have the right to armed resistance if the government fails to protect their liberties.

Founding context

The general theme: armed militias and citizens were a check on a potentially oppressive central government.

This was especially relevant because the new United States had no large standing army, which many feared could become a tool of tyranny.

I believe there is a bit of nuance needed in this conversation. One side, Red or Blue, cannot "overthrow" the government because they dont like how the current administration is doing things. This is where we are now.
But, if the government went WAY overboard and unequivocally started not only violating, but completely eliminating ALL Americans rights, a forced reset may be called for.
This is exactly what many leftists are pushing for. They are saying that Trump is blatantly removing rights, actively trying to stop the 2028 election so he stays in command, and removing states rights. If that was actually happening, the majority of the Right would join the Left in a forced reset by removing Trump and replacing him.
My point is, its illegal for one group...Left, Right, Antifa....to overthrow the government. But if ALL Americans agree, the laws dont matter.

Advocating overthrow of government through violence or armed resistance

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18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government​

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18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government​

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Constitution is the law​

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Thomas Jefferson​

James Madison​

Patrick Henry​

George Mason​

Founding context​

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Thomas Jefferson​

James Madison​

Patrick Henry​

George Mason​

Founding context​

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government