Off duty Buffalo Police Officer Shoots a German Shepherd Diring an Attack

fresch · Friday at 9:04 AM

"Never off duty", protected class, could a pleb get away doing this or is it jail time?

OwnTheRide · Friday at 11:40 AM

One hundred percent, she should have kept control of her dogs.

But, watch the footage, and in particular the body language of the GSDs. Those dogs were not attacking. Charging, barking, yes... but not attacking. I'll give you that we can't expect everyone to be able to read dogs as easily as I do.

I'm not willing to call this a good shoot, but I'm also not willing to call it a bad shoot. It's unfortunate all around. I wish the officer had read the situation better, but the owner definitely should have had better control of her dogs. And I do think the negligent owner's point about when the officer chose to shoot is valid. She really was right there and in the line of fire. He's very lucky she didn't get hit.

So in the end, I arrive at the same point as Salt, but without the same reasoning. No charges for officer, ticket for negligent owner.

Since I'm playing MMQB, what would I have done? Simple: either picked up the little dog, or gotten between the little dog and the GSDs. I can easily control two large unknown dogs (who aren't specifically trained to attack, such as police dogs) using presence, voice, body language, or in extreme circumstances, a swift kick. But I recognize not everyone can, nor do I think that should that be an expectation.

Drinkthekoolaid · Friday at 12:02 PM

I don't have time to read the story/ watch the video

Did the off duty officer who is essentially acting like any regular citizen out for a walk get bit before he shot the dog?

That's all I need to know to make my opinion.

If he was bitten, then he acted in self defense.
If he was not bitten then his actions are right to be scrutinized.

I am making my opinions based on what I would do if I'm out taking a walk carrying my pistol. If a dog runs up and is barking at me and acting threatening but not actually biting me I know if I shot it i would be arrested. So that's my standard of judgment for this off duty cop.

tirwin1 · Friday at 12:40 PM

To hell with the owner of the german shepards. She "lost control". In my mind, as a former dog owner, she is a horrible owner. Period. If you can't handle your two dogs in public that is entirely your fault.

The poor dog that was being attacked could easily have been mauled to death by those two dogs. I don't blame the off duty cop for a second.

I have owned dogs and I have been bitten by dogs. I have zero sympathy for this woman or any dog owner that can't control their dogs. Go to hell lady.

Pale Rider · Friday at 12:52 PM

fresch said:
"Never off duty", protected class, could a pleb get away doing this or is it jail time?

YAAAAAAAWNNN

spat · Friday at 1:17 PM

What if the woman with the dogs was legally armed ?

You're out walking your dogs and some guy draws his gun and shoots one of them for barking at him. Sounds like she'd be in a reasonable fear that she might be next.

If she'd shot him dead on the spot, would that be justified?

He didn't get bit. I think if I was on that jury she'd walk.

tirwin1 · Friday at 1:19 PM

spat said:
What if the woman with the dogs was legally armed ?

You're out walking your dogs and some guy draws his gun and shoots one of them for barking at him. Sounds like she'd be in a reasonable fear that she might be next.

If she'd shot him dead on the spot, would that be justified?

He didn't get bit. I think if I was on that jury she'd walk.

Except they weren't barking. They were attacking. A rather significant difference I would say.

spat · Friday at 1:28 PM

tirwin1 said:
Except they weren't barking. They were attacking. A rather significant difference I would say.

Were they attacking ? Doesn't seem like it to me.

Running at someone and barking doesn’t constitute an attack anymore than yelling at someone does.

S&W Fan · Friday at 1:46 PM

Drinkthekoolaid said:
I don't have time to read the story/ watch the video

Did the off duty officer who is essentially acting like any regular citizen out for a walk get bit before he shot the dog?

That's all I need to know to make my opinion.

If he was bitten, then he acted in self defense.
If he was not bitten then his actions are right to be scrutinized.

I am making my opinions based on what I would do if I'm out taking a walk carrying my pistol. If a dog runs up and is barking at me and acting threatening but not actually biting me I know if I shot it i would be arrested. So that's my standard of judgment for this off duty cop.

If you wait to be bitten by a dog, in this case potentially two dogs at which point they Would be attacking you , your chances of getting to your firearm are drastically reduced. I won’t voice an opinion because I can't get the footage to play. However, some here are attributing human behaviors to animals, that’s dangerously wrong.

Drinkthekoolaid · Friday at 1:59 PM

S&W Fan said:
If you wait to be bitten by a dog, in this case potentially two dogs at which point they Would be attacking you , your chances of getting to your firearm are drastically reduced. I won’t voice an opinion because I can't get the footage to play. However, some here are attributing human behaviors to animals, that’s dangerously wrong.

I don't necessarily disagree, however...

If I'm walking in my neighborhood, and 2 "off leash" dogs are acting aggressively, and I shoot them without being bitten, I'm going to get charged and end up in Court/jail.

Why is it too much to hold the off duty cop to the same standards and limitations? His life and safety are no more valuable than mine is to me.

I judge others and make my opinions based on what I would do in that situation.

spat · Friday at 2:18 PM

S&W Fan said:
If you wait to be bitten by a dog, in this case potentially two dogs at which point they Would be attacking you , your chances of getting to your firearm are drastically reduced. I won’t voice an opinion because I can't get the footage to play. However, some here are attributing human behaviors to animals, that’s dangerously wrong.

Nobody would fault him for drawing. If you already have your gun drawn and in your hand, then yea, you can absolutely deploy it if bitten.

Sounds like the dogs weren't even threatening *him*, just his dog.

Pale Rider · Friday at 2:34 PM

My chief used to tell us that since we are armed, if we get bit by a dog it's our own fault.

tirwin1 · Friday at 4:49 PM

spat said:
Were they attacking ? Doesn't seem like it to me.

Running at someone and barking doesn’t constitute an attack anymore than yelling at someone does.

I viewed it as an attack. That little dog stood little chance against the 2 German shepherds.

repete · Friday at 5:31 PM

Couldn't see the vid, but " Why did he have his gun on him in the first place?” Just in case he was attacked by dogs or something that why!

GOPerfect · Friday at 9:37 PM

fresch said:
"Never off duty", protected class, could a pleb get away doing this or is it jail time?

Yes. I know this for a fact. A personal fact.

OwnTheRide · Friday at 10:53 PM

GOPerfect said:
Yes. I know this for a fact. A personal fact.

Agreed that a non-cop could get out of this situation without charges, though I think a cop is more likely to.

Also, I can't help but notice a few things that potentially indicate preferential treatment:

1. He wasn't arrested
2. His guns were not taken
3. His name has not been released

That said, those three things are the right move... they just should apply to everyone.

GOPerfect · Friday at 11:01 PM

OwnTheRide said:
Agreed that a non-cop could get out of this situation without charges, though I think a cop is more likely to.

Also, I can't help but notice a few things that potentially indicate preferential treatment:

1. He wasn't arrested
2. His guns were not taken
3. His name has not been released

That said, those three things are the right move... they just just apply to everyone.

I may or may not have been involved in something like this many years back.

I may have been just a regular guy.

There may not have been any arrests, confiscating and my name may have never been released.

All hypothetical though...

spat · Saturday at 2:13 AM

Saltwater60 said:
I’m sure there are plenty who would fault him. The people in the article don’t think he should have even had a gun on him while walking.

OK, you're right, the world is full of morons and I should have considered that.

Change that to "nobody who should be taken seriously would fault him".

spat · Saturday at 2:18 AM

Saltwater60 said:
Interesting thought. Was she the original aggressor?

I'm not convinced there *was* an attack for her or even her dogs to be the aggressor.

It's far more common for dogs to growl and charge and *not* actually attack than the other way around.

And it doesn't sound like he was even the target if the supposed attack, just his dog. Legally, all the dogs involved were just property. In NY do you get to draw and fire your gun just to prevent property damage ? Can you shoot someone's dog for stealing your lunch ?

Celt · Saturday at 7:51 AM

A dog can also be considered a weapon. Just as gun owners are responsible for every bullet that leaves their gun a dog owner is responsible for the actions of their dogs.

Keyzard · Saturday at 8:06 AM

I take our dog for a couple mile walk every day, and having to deal with an aggressive animal is my biggest fear.
I really don't want to shoot someone's pet, so my pistol would be my last resort. I always carry pepper spray on those walks.

spat · Saturday at 8:39 AM

Keyzard said:
I take our dog for a couple mile walk every day, and having to deal with an aggressive animal is my biggest fear.
I really don't want to shoot someone's pet, so my pistol would be my last resort. I always carry pepper spray on those walks.

We have a truly shocking number of dogs that just run loose out here. They're actual pets, not strays, but people seem very nonchalant about free ranging their dogs.

May have something to do with the open range laws and the fact that cattle and other livestock roam freely. If you don't want them eating your vegetable garden you need to fence them out.

We have a leash law, but it doesn't seem anyone really cares.

We also have many packs of wild coyotes running loose too.

I carry when we walk the dog, I carry anytime i'm wearing pants, but I would have to be in real fear of serious injury to shoot one, and that likely would mean already being injured and unable to stop them any other way.

Jmac00 · Saturday at 9:06 AM

tirwin1 said:
To hell with the owner of the german shepards. She "lost control". In my mind, as a former dog owner, she is a horrible owner. Period. If you can't handle your two dogs in public that is entirely your fault.

The poor dog that was being attacked could easily have been mauled to death by those two dogs. I don't blame the off duty cop for a second.

I have owned dogs and I have been bitten by dogs. I have zero sympathy for this woman or any dog owner that can't control their dogs. Go to hell lady.

I concur. I 'workamp' at a RV park. last year, a couple came in with two massive Great Danes, these boys were big even by Great Dane standards. They were walking around the campground and the husband had to take a leak, so he hands the dogs off to his 130-140 pound wife. He proceeds to the bathroom which was about 3 feet way. While the husband had control, the dogs were very well behaved, but he handed them off to the wife. The dogs see a squirrel <not kidding, a freak'n 13 stripe ground squirrel> and drags this poor lady down a paved street for about 15 feet. She got a pretty good case of road rash before the old man came out and regained control.
On the plus side, the nice lady never let go of the leads, but she, and I suspect the old man, were not very happy. She walked back to their camper alone :idk:

It's all in how the dogs are trained. If you can't walk them on a lead, by either guardian, then the dogs need a lot more training

Robin · Saturday at 10:19 AM

Or the guy needs a prostate exam.
Robin

GOPerfect · Saturday at 11:35 AM

spat said:
We have a truly shocking number of dogs that just run loose out here. They're actual pets, not strays, but people seem very nonchalant about free ranging their dogs.

May have something to do with the open range laws and the fact that cattle and other livestock roam freely. If you don't want them eating your vegetable garden you need to fence them out.

We have a leash law, but it doesn't seem anyone really cares.

We also have many packs of wild coyotes running loose too.

I carry when we walk the dog, I carry anytime i'm wearing pants, but I would have to be in real fear of serious injury to shoot one, and that likely would mean already being injured and unable to stop them any other way.

The free range dogs here... it is astounding how many there are.

I shoot at dogs on a near daily basis. I started with BB's. I am up to pellets now. If they do not start to learn, I will notch that up another level.

spat · Saturday at 12:33 PM

GOPerfect said:
The free range dogs here... it is astounding how many there are.

I shoot at dogs on a near daily basis. I started with BB's. I am up to pellets now. If they do not start to learn, I will notch that up another level.

We had a problem when i was a kid with dogs getting into our garbage

The solution was simple. Put the metal cans on a rubber stall mat and hook an electric fencer up to them.

Only problem we had after that was forgetting to turn the fencer off before taking out the garbage LoL

Off duty Buffalo Police Officer Shoots a German Shepherd Diring an Attack

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