50-A Is Gone

GOPerfect · Jun 12, 2020

cranberry said:
Surely your body cam will exonerate you from any bad behavior .

Nope, not all the time.

Airborneguy · Jun 13, 2020

spat said:
If you were justified getting into a wrestling match, then you're probably justified doing whatever you need to do once you're down there IMHO.

I’ve made the decision that I will not use any force for anything other than defense of myself or another cop from now until I retire.

I will not use any force - not matter how justified - to effect an arrest. I don’t care if I’m on camera, if someone does not want to be arrested I will not force the issue. Let everyone see cops walking away on camera.

spat · Jun 13, 2020

Airborneguy said:
I’ve made the decision that I will not use any force for anything other than defense of myself or another cop from now until I retire.

I will not use any force - not matter how justified - to effect an arrest. I don’t care if I’m on camera, if someone does not want to be arrested I will not force the issue. Let everyone see cops walking away on camera.

It's going to have to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Your way might actually be the fastest path back to sanity for us all.

Saltwater60 · Jun 13, 2020

Also for those saying the police addresses won’t be released how hard do you think it is to find that persons address. It’s very easy with $1.29 on the internet.

prambo · Jun 13, 2020

Joe Blow said:
Your home address etc. info will not be available through a FOIL. Lawsuits etc., no guarantees. Nothing to hide, nothing to worry about...

Didn't see the "/s" (sarcasm) indicator...forgot, you must have...right?

pjzwtl · Jun 13, 2020

Ne

prambo said:
Didn't see the "/s" (sarcasm) indicator...forgot, you must have...right?

new poster from chaz

Vapor · Jun 13, 2020

Saltwater60 said:
Also for those saying the police addresses won’t be released how hard do you think it is to find that persons address. It’s very easy with $1.29 on the internet.

You don't even have to spend that much.

Truebeliever · Jun 13, 2020

Vantrepes said:
In that case, the record should show that there was an investigation, and there was no wrong doing found on that officers part. "This was investigated, and found to be a false allegation. The complainant was found to have committed perjury, and served X time in prison."
It's bullshit they can make the claim, and have it recorded, with no proof. If I file a report that had $5k, and was robbed, I at the very least face the charge of filing a false report if I didn't have $5k to start with.
"I had $5k with me, and the cop stole it!" only flies if the body camera shows the cop pulling $5k out of the suspects pocket, and there's no record of it being put into evidence. Under my rules, right there, they would be charges, and prosecuted for perjury. Then the cops record reflects they were falsely accused, and the person making the accusation was prosecuted for it.
Being able to lie with zero repercussions is a major part of the problem.

That's been one of the sticking point with the Floyd event. "That cop had 18 reports, and they did NOTHING! BURN SHIT DOWN!".... How many of those were crap reports? How many were real situations where he went over the edge?
Personally, I have no idea, so it falls into the "Um, that's interesting, but irrelevant" category. Same as Floyd's criminal record. Yes, it proves he was a scumbag, but that doesn't have anything to do with what happened after he was cuffed and on the ground.

Also a good point. Why make anything but complaints, and the results of the investigation against the cop part of the record? If a cop gets close to kicking the crap out of someone for no reason, and says "Holy shit, I need to figure this out NOW, before it becomes a problem" I see no reason that should be part of the release.

Airborn, that's part of the double edged sword. If the cops are already under threat of prosecution, and it's being prosecuted, then they would have no problem with the people filing the bullshit complaints facing the same.

All around, right now, under the rules they have in place, it's nothing but pandering. Political "Look, we did something!" just to say they did something.

18 in how many years? That’s close to one complaint a year. You just proved my point. Active cops will have complaints. I knew a guy who had over 50. That’s right 50. That’s a problem and it wasn’t for force. I had a few . Some areas , the “good “citizens threaten cops that they will make the complaint even if the cop is right. When you work a busy area, you will get them fast because you will constantly run into those people .

Each complaint had to be investigated separately. Those 18 complaints can all be BS. Heck a cop who is sued and not just a complaint made against him can be in the right all 18 times . False complaints are common . And where someone works and the assignment given can largely tell if they are going to get complaints.
There is a reason BLM is against body cameras. It’s proving how many of the complaints are false.

holdover · Jun 13, 2020

Airborneguy said:
I’ve made the decision that I will not use any force for anything other than defense of myself or another cop from now until I retire.

I will not use any force - not matter how justified - to effect an arrest. I don’t care if I’m on camera, if someone does not want to be arrested I will not force the issue. Let everyone see cops walking away on camera.

Cant blame you one bit. They want you to look away? Then look away.

Vantrepes · Jun 13, 2020

Truebeliever said:
18 in how many years? That’s close to one complaint a year. You just proved my point. Active cops will have complaints. I knew a guy who had over 50. That’s right 50. That’s a problem and it wasn’t for force. I had a few . Some areas , the “good “citizens threaten cops that they will make the complaint even if the cop is right. When you work a busy area, you will get them fast because you will constantly run into those people .

Each complaint had to be investigated separately. Those 18 complaints can all be BS. Heck a cop who is sued and not just a complaint made against him can be in the right all 18 times . False complaints are common . And where someone works and the assignment given can largely tell if they are going to get complaints.
There is a reason BLM is against body cameras. It’s proving how many of the complaints are false.

I agree on all points. The problem is they point to the number of complaints as if it indicates the officer is 100% guilty on every one of them. I have no doubt that the majority of them are bullshit.
I'd say the vast majority of the time, when you arrest someone, they don't develop a warm fuzzy feeling for the cop. With absolutely no downside to lying through their teeth, the number of complaints against an officer means nothing.
The number of times the cop was found to have violated policy is a different number, but that's not what the news is reporting. The news is reporting 18 complaints, with no other information.

Criticalt · Jun 13, 2020

GOPerfect said:
Not even sure where to begin.

I'll start with home address. That will be given out. Now my family is at risk. We do not deal with all good people.

Where does this stop? Starts with LE and goes to each and every department and section of government. Anyone employed by a town, city, county and State. Opens up too many bad possibilities.

My family is not part of my job. They don't need to everything I do. I did many things in the Army that my family knows nothing about, just like this job. Not theirs to know.

Officers get hit with all types of accusations, some are true, some are very false. We do not always win the case against us. Many will take a quick suspension over fighting some of these BS charges.

I can add more later.

I dont know much about cops but I know a bit that doctors go through.
It would shock most people just how many doctors are accused of crimes....sexual touching, sexual misconduct, physical abuse, groping....etc.
There are very few doctors with any time in that havent been accused of something.
Most of the accusations are false but many doctors settle for cash to keep it quiet. Because just like cops, a doctors accusation history can follow them for life.

Saltwater60 · Jun 13, 2020

Absolutely. They will use these complaints to get rid of those cops. There are those that will complaint just to do that when they know this. We will then wIf up with unqualified police officers.

Darth · Jun 13, 2020

So those of us that work in correctional facilities addresses and names can be FOILed, but these should be protected because...?

Saltwater60 · Jun 13, 2020

Darth said:
So those of us that work in correctional facilities addresses and names can be FOILed, but these should be protected because...?

Yours should be protected too. No ones name for working should be able to be foiled.
If you call M&T bank and say I want Jane Smiths address and personnel files what do you think they would do? I get it the cops are paid for with tax money but if you’re an M&T bank customer your money is paying their salary to. Just like why the pistol permit names and addresses should not be able to be foiled. Cops have guns in their homes and this makes them targets as well.

Truebeliever · Jun 13, 2020

Criticalt said:
I dont know much about cops but I know a bit that doctors go through.
It would shock most people just how many doctors are accused of crimes....sexual touching, sexual misconduct, physical abuse, groping....etc.
There are very few doctors with any time in that havent been accused of something.
Most of the accusations are false but many doctors settle for cash to keep it quiet. Because just like cops, a doctors accusation history can follow them for life.

Yes, but imagine if they couldn’t keep it quiet. Out of the bogus complaints at least one must be real so let’s destroy the careers of all those other innocent people - that’s the mentality of the left now.

Darth · Jun 13, 2020

Saltwater60 said:
Yours should be protected too. No ones name for working should be able to be foiled.
If you call M&T bank and say I want Jane Smiths address and personnel files what do you think they would do? I get it the cops are paid for with tax money but if you’re an M&T bank customer your money is paying their salary to. Just like why the pistol permit names and addresses should not be able to be foiled. Cops have guns in their homes and this makes them targets as well.

I agree it shouldn't be releasable, but I missed where the cops were fighting on our side before this specifically affected them.

:idk:

Rap · Jun 13, 2020

DrBleachCocktail said:
The bill makes police disciplinary records subject to Freedom of Information Law, or FOIL, requests, similar to most records kept by public agencies.

Transparency for the win. I'm sure all the coppers here, along with the vast majority of their colleagues in blue have nothing to worry about.

GOPerfect · Jun 13, 2020

Darth said:
So those of us that work in correctional facilities addresses and names can be FOILed, but these should be protected because...?

You are actually covered under the same. Well, you were....

pjzwtl · Jun 14, 2020

Darth said:
So those of us that work in correctional facilities addresses and names can be FOILed, but these should be protected because...?

I would say that’s fucked up as well and shouldn’t be.

Saltwater60 · Jun 14, 2020

Darth said:
I agree it shouldn't be releasable, but I missed where the cops were fighting on our side before this specifically affected them.

Sometimes it takes something like this of others to be on our side. Just be glad it will help us in the long run hopefully. This entire pandemic should help us hopefully. I think a lot of people on both sides are mad about their rights being violated. We will find out in 5 months. Is that long enough for people to forget? I hope not.

Saltwater60 · Jun 14, 2020

Rap said:
Transparency for the win. I'm sure all the coppers here, along with the vast majority of their colleagues in blue have nothing to worry about.

I’d encourage you to speak with a cop if you know one. There are many complaints filed against cops that are 100% bullshit.
I’ve had it happen to me at my job a few times. I’m sure law enforcement it’s even worse. Remember you’re catching people at the lowest points I think heir lives, sometime taking their jobs, their freedom, their livelihood, and their family away from them. You honestly don’t think some of them would file BS claims against a cop at that point? Wake up man coffees on!!

Rap · Jun 14, 2020

Saltwater60 said:
I’d encourage you to speak with a cop if you know one. There are many complaints filed against cops that are 100% bullshit.
I’ve had it happen to me at my job a few times. I’m sure law enforcement it’s even worse. Remember you’re catching people at the lowest points I think heir lives, sometime taking their jobs, their freedom, their livelihood, and their family away from them. You honestly don’t think some of them would file BS claims against a cop at that point? Wake up man coffees on!!

I'm awake. Claims determined to be without merit will reflect that on the record. In the case of false accusation campaigns being waged against innocent officers, those patterns should all come out in the wash.

Also,from my read of the short original post, *disciplinary records* are going to be made available. Does that even include unsubstantiated claims?

Saltwater60 · Jun 14, 2020

Rap said:
I'm awake. Claims determined to be without merit will reflect that on the record. In the case of false accusation campaigns being waged against innocent officers, those patterns should all come out in the wash.

Also,from my read of the short original post, *disciplinary records* are going to be made available. Does that even include unsubstantiated claims?

I would say yes. Also keep in mind many claims are never truly investigated because it costs more to investigate. Many claims are just settled for a few thousand dollars and both parties are happy.

So are you now saying you want every claim investigated fully? I’d guess we’d have to hire 10-20% more cops just to investigate these claims. That would have huge financial impacts on our taxes.

I have no problem with bad cops being fired but I don’t think making every claim available is the way to go.
Take this example they could use this TK rob cops of pensions. Say they file a claim against a cop that’s got 18 years on the job and he hits the magic quota of say 25-30 complaints before they say well this is the last one we can afford and you’re terminated. Sorry.

Rap · Jun 14, 2020

Saltwater60 said:
I would say yes. Also keep in mind many claims are never truly investigated because it costs more to investigate. Many claims are just settled for a few thousand dollars and both parties are happy.

So are you now saying you want every claim investigated fully? I’d guess we’d have to hire 10-20% more cops just to investigate these claims. That would have huge financial impacts on our taxes.

I have no problem with bad cops being fired but I don’t think making every claim available is the way to go.
Take this example they could use this TK rob cops of pensions. Say they file a claim against a cop that’s got 18 years on the job and he hits the magic quota of say 25-30 complaints before they say well this is the last one we can afford and you’re terminated. Sorry.

This is clearly a conversation full of assumptions and uncertainty. But to answer your question, yes, claims should be investigated. Cops should not "take a plea deal" if they did nothing wrong. Trust the system. Isn't that how the logic works?

Saltwater60 · Jun 14, 2020

Rap said:
This is clearly a conversation full of assumptions and uncertainty. But to answer your question, yes, claims should be investigated. Cops should not "take a plea deal" if they did nothing wrong. Trust the system. Isn't that how the logic works?

Formal charges are not brought up many times. A note is placed in the personnel file and the claim is paid out. So I guess a plea deal is taken but it’s above and beyond the officer. It’s a financial decision more than a legal decision. I agree it’s wrong but I don’t see it changing. I don’t want my taxes to raise $1,000/ year to investigate these claims or whatever it will rise.

Talk with a cop if you know one and ask them how often this happens. I’ll bet it’s a few times per year per cop.

Airborneguy · Jun 14, 2020

Huge difference between “unsubstantiated” and “unfounded” on my job. “Unsubstantiated” complaints - which typically are the ones where some animal falsely reports something then refuses to participate in the investigation, stick with the cop for the remainder of their career.

People should be prosecuted for false complaints against cops.

Chevusa · Jun 14, 2020

Police names, addresses and phone numbers can already be gotten through the law Cuomo signed into law 6 months or so back. If you're arrested you can get all that info from not only the cop that arrested you but every other cop on scene too. I forget what the law was called but it went along with the bail reform I believe.

diggs223 · Jun 14, 2020

I would say a cop in any city should quit now. pension not worth it, they're nothing more than cannon fodder. politicians, media and most of the
public will cry do your job stop bad guy but dont hurt him, won't matter what. cops will not be able to do anything right, there will be no
backup, politicians will stand back see which way the wind blows then kick them to the gutter

Saltwater60 · Jun 14, 2020

diggs223 said:
I would say a cop in any city should quit now. pension not worth it, they're nothing more than cannon fodder. politicians, media and most of the
public will cry do your job stop bad guy but dont hurt him, won't matter what. cops will not be able to do anything right, there will be no
backup, politicians will stand back see which way the wind blows then kick them to the gutter

I think the cops should immediately quite politician protective detail as a protest.

GOPerfect · Jun 15, 2020

Saltwater60 said:
I think the cops should immediately quite politician protective detail as a protest.

I am currently putting together a list of every single politician in NY that will contain every bit of information for the public to see.

Every bit of information that I can find will be putt on the list.

50-A Is Gone

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