So I have a question for all of the legal scholars on this forum. I have a friend from out of state with a legal (in his state) pistol who wants to fly to a destination in free America where he is legal to own and posses said pistol. Best airfare is out of Westchester. Strictly speaking is he covered under FOPA to travel directly to the airport with the gun unloaded and locked, check in his bag and travel? He would also like to return the same way.
Article 926A of FOPA
- Thread starter togmaster
- Start date
Brawny71
.45 acp
Federal law allows him to travel THRU any state with it secured as you described. Even IF he were to get delayed or laid over, he is SUPPOSE to be covered. In the past, a Fredo within the airlines HAS called the NYC PD and called them in and it caused an issue. What I have done in this situation for JFK, Laguadia, and Newark is I don't take my bag from the Airlines; it stays in the Federal TSA area. It also becomes their liability if it disappears. But the Federal law allows for unplanned delays causing you to STAY in an unfriendly state. You cannot PLAN to stay (overnight, potty stops and lunch is allowed) when transitioning through a state you are not permitted in. But you can keep the firearm unloaded, in a lockable container, separate from the ammo.
18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms
Though my question is if he is in a legal state, why would he come to Westchester to fly out? There really have to be better options. Why temp the commies and why give them your business? Reading through your post; IF he is already in NYS WITH a pistol but not permitted by NYS and stayed, he is in violation. IF he is going to travel to Westchester TO CONTINUE to travel (like from Vermont, PA, NH) to a legal destination he is technically legal but I wouldn't trust anyone in NYS to value that or care.
18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms
Though my question is if he is in a legal state, why would he come to Westchester to fly out? There really have to be better options. Why temp the commies and why give them your business? Reading through your post; IF he is already in NYS WITH a pistol but not permitted by NYS and stayed, he is in violation. IF he is going to travel to Westchester TO CONTINUE to travel (like from Vermont, PA, NH) to a legal destination he is technically legal but I wouldn't trust anyone in NYS to value that or care.
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C3D
.308 Win
Legal advice on an internet forum is worth what you pay for it.
Numerous, numerous people have been arrested for CPW -- mostly but not only by Port Authority PD -- and agencies and courts in NY have taken the position that FOPA does not cover air travel. Many of the arrestees had the charges dismissed, but the 2nd Circuit has held (in the 2010 Torraco case) that declaring an unlicensed handgun is valid probable cause for an arrest even if FOPA could potentially apply.
Read the NRA-ILA note on the subject and then make your own judgment as to whether declaring an unlicensed handgun at a NY airport is a smart thing to do.
www.nraila.org
ETA: As an aside, this is unfortunate for residents of western Connecticut who might use Westchester as a convenient airport.
Numerous, numerous people have been arrested for CPW -- mostly but not only by Port Authority PD -- and agencies and courts in NY have taken the position that FOPA does not cover air travel. Many of the arrestees had the charges dismissed, but the 2nd Circuit has held (in the 2010 Torraco case) that declaring an unlicensed handgun is valid probable cause for an arrest even if FOPA could potentially apply.
Read the NRA-ILA note on the subject and then make your own judgment as to whether declaring an unlicensed handgun at a NY airport is a smart thing to do.
NRA-ILA | Firearm Transportation
Make sure you know the laws regarding transportation of your firearms.
www.nraila.org
ETA: As an aside, this is unfortunate for residents of western Connecticut who might use Westchester as a convenient airport.
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Thank you and in response to your question, the reason he is considering Westchester is an extremely inexpensive airfare to a destination in the south.
If he does not have a CCW for NY I would highly advise AGAINST it.
As @C3D stated, most local PD in NY will not be on your side. My buddy is a PAPD officer stationed at JFK and he's told me numerous stories about people coming with their handguns all ready for a flight, but because they didn't have their CCW, they got jammed up.
They will arrest you for attempting to fly with a firearm, even when following proper procedures for airline travel. The FOPA is ambiguous and doesn't specifically state it covers air travel.
As @C3D stated, most local PD in NY will not be on your side. My buddy is a PAPD officer stationed at JFK and he's told me numerous stories about people coming with their handguns all ready for a flight, but because they didn't have their CCW, they got jammed up.
They will arrest you for attempting to fly with a firearm, even when following proper procedures for airline travel. The FOPA is ambiguous and doesn't specifically state it covers air travel.
urjustamemory
.40 S&W
My advice, I am not a lawyer and never will claim to be.
Tell your friend to not cheap out, skip flying into/out of a state that hates firearms. Yea it's more expensive to fly elsewhere but it's not worth cheaping out and potentially getting hassled over or worse.... arrested over.
Brawny71
.45 acp
So if he travels from a safe state, to NY with the firearm locked up and separate from ammo, to the airport, he can then lock the ammo (in mags, not in him) in a lock box and check it /declare. He cannot travel to NYS, SPEND THE NIGHT, then leave. It is his travel plan with no planned overnight in a hostile state
C3D
.308 Win
An additional note, it is legal under Federal law to Fedex a handgun to yourself at your travel destination with no need to involve an FFL. It won't be a zero cost option but it sidesteps getting arrested by the Westchester Department of Public Safety.
He does not have a NY CCW yet.
So looking into the fedex option i see this. "Shippers that do not hold an FFL are not eligible to obtain approval and are prohibited from shipping firearms with FedEx. Shippers that have not received approval, regardless of their FFL status, are prohibited from shipping firearms with FedEx." Looks like it has to go through an FFL.
C3D
.308 Win
@togmaster
How very interesting. Both UPS and FedEx changed their rules on this in 2022. I bet the Biden administration is behind the change.
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
When checking declared pistols at Westchester Airport a few years ago, everything ran very smoothly. But, police did check my New York permit (not a CCW) against the serial numbers on the pistols.
Someone without a New York permit should not try to check firearms at a New York state, let alone a New York City, airport.
Brawny71
.45 acp
Exactly the over reach I warned of. Even though legal by federal law, NYS trumps
I flew in and out of Westchester a couple of months ago. No one asked for a permit. The agent at the gate didn't even want me to open the gun case.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Legally he is covered.
But, just like a mugger, NYS won't let the law stop them from stealing your shit and giving you a very bad day.
So, proceed at your own risk.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
And what's the penalty for not telling FedEx what's in the box ?
Is the discount enough to cover the lawyer fees if NY wants to fuck with him? If not I would pay the extra to avoid NY.
He should do what he can afford.
He should do what he can afford.
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
Cheap now but be real expensive when he needs to pay the lawyer to get him out of this, maybe, and without the beloved gun. Pay a bit more and avoid NYS.
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
Only other thing I could think of is to make the gun inoperable, fly out of WC, and ship the other parts to himself for cheap. I still wouldn’t risk it because he doesn’t have a NYS permit and legal in his state and where he’s going leads me to believe it might not be NYS legal.
In regard to shipping... Just break the firearm down into parts and ship in two boxes!
Done!
Now you aren't shipping a firearm, but disassembled parts to yourself!
And oh, Fuck NY!
Lol
I think I should put that line (above) in my signature and save some thumb work (typing) hahahaha!
Done!
Now you aren't shipping a firearm, but disassembled parts to yourself!
And oh, Fuck NY!
Lol
I think I should put that line (above) in my signature and save some thumb work (typing) hahahaha!