Choosing a Zero on your Carbine

[Bullcreek_Strategic]

I was just changing some optics around on my AR and thought to myself, "what zeros are most common for people when it comes to BZOs (Battlesight Zero)".

Yes you think i would know this, and i do. Im just curious as to what other people are using.

I prefer to use a 36yd zero, due to the fact It has an effective combat range of 300, so what does that mean?
It means there is less than a 6" kill zone from 0-300yd. So no holdovers until i make a shot past 300 and even then with this zero, 400yd shot is going to hit the "C" zone or stomach.

But this only works on certain optics, as in single red dots or holographic or Irons. Other optics i have as in BDC reticles i obviously use the directions provided by the manufacturer to utilizethe optic as it was intended.

So ill put a poll on here, answer the poll and then post your reasoning why.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Do you have a ballistic table for your bullet and load? This is for 69 gr Sierra MatchKing bullets.

Keep an eye on wind drift too.

Prepare to drive yourself crazy.

 

[Bullcreek_Strategic]

Do you have a ballistic table for your bullet and load? This is for 69 gr Sierra MatchKing bullets.

Keep an eye on wind drift too.

Prepare to drive yourself crazy.

Mine was setup going off of 77gr, Falkor/Dracos Straight jacket barrel 16", BLH ammo, BC 0.420 and 2683.5 MV. Ive honestly done the math a 1million times and every calculator ive used seems different, and yes it literally drives me crazy.

As i say in classes bullets to paper dont lie. Just like in the army as a PF, GPS can be wrong paper maps are user error.

The drawing is done so off of a picture perfect world and zero wind haha.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Mine was setup going off of 77gr, Falkor/Dracos Straight jacket barrel 16", BLH ammo, BC 0.420 and 2683.5 MV. Ive honestly done the math a 1million times and every calculator ive used seems different, and yes it literally drives me crazy.

As i say in classes bullets to paper dont lie. Just like in the army as a PF, GPS can be wrong paper maps are user error.

The drawing is done so off of a picture perfect world and zero wind haha.

There is no simple answer. Humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, wind all play into consistency (in addition to all the mechanical rifle factors.). Some things you have no control over but if you understand it you can compensate for it. +/- 4" on a deer at 300 yards, deer most likely know any difference. Field conditions are a who lot different than "F" class shooting conditions.

 

[speedkills27]

always zeroed at 50 with my red dots. I dont have a real reason except when I did some training as a newbie the instructor recommended that zero. Every other instructor/class that iv taken since has run their curriculum based on that zero.

 

[DoD1776]

25 has always worked for me and the fam. There’s no really a particular reason why we do it. It’s just quicker IMO

 

[Curmudgeon]

Travis Haley did a video on a 36yd zero. It made a lot of sense to me. I'm currently 50.

 

[Marine Cpl]

For a 5.56/ .223, a 50 yard zero works better.

With a 36 yard zero which is similar to a 25 yard zero, it puts the round too high during normal combat engagements. (0 to 200) and it's better suited for longer range engagements. It's about 7 inches high at 100 yards and 10 inches high at 200 yards.

Below is the 36 yd/300 yd zero which is similar to the 25 yard. All rounds are too high before 200 yards.

The 50 yard zero keeps the bullet within 2.5 inches high or low all the way from the muzzle out to 225 yards. Less guess work. Point and shoot. You are more likely to have engagements in the 0 to 200 yard range than at 300 to sacrifice the excessive holdovers during the 0 to 200 yard ranges. At 300 yards which is a rare shot, a head shot would put the bullet into the chest with a 50 yard zero.

 

[speedkills27]

For a 5.56/ .223, a 50 yard zero works better.

With a 36 yard zero which is similar to a 25 yard zero, it puts the round too high during normal combat engagements. (0 to 200) and it's better suited for longer range engagements. It's about 6 inches high at 100 yards and 10 inches high at 200 yards.

Below is the 36 yd/300 yd zero which is similar to the 25 yard. All rounds are high before 200 yards.

The 50 yard zero keeps the bullet within 2.5 inches high or low all the way from the muzzle out to 225 yards. Less guess work. Point and shoot. You are more likely to have engagements in the 0 to 200 yard range than at 300 to sacrifice the excessive holdovers during the 0 to 200 yard ranges.

Based on your chart a 50 yd zero makes more sense to me for a "defensive rifle" scenario.

 

[Bullcreek_Strategic]

For a 5.56/ .223, a 50 yard zero works better.

With a 36 yard zero which is similar to a 25 yard zero, it puts the round too high during normal combat engagements. (0 to 200) and it's better suited for longer range engagements. It's about 7 inches high at 100 yards and 10 inches high at 200 yards.

Below is the 36 yd/300 yd zero which is similar to the 25 yard. All rounds are too hig

The 50 yard zero keeps the bullet within 2.5 inches high or low all the way from the muzzle out to 225 yards. Less guess work. Point and shoot. You are more likely to have engagements in the 0 to 200 yard range than at 300 to sacrifice the excessive holdovers during the 0 to 200 yard ranges. At 300 yards which is a rare shot, a head shot would put the bullet into the chest.

Right on man, I can get down with that reasoning.
This is what i was looking at getting on this thread an actual talk about guns and "stuff" haha. Thanks everyone.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Based on your chart a 50 yd zero makes more sense to me for a "defensive rifle" scenario.

I'd go on to say it suits military applications as well with a red dot since it's difficult to accurately hit targets with a red dot past 300 yards anyway since the dot would is obscure most of the target at ranges past that.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Is this for 556 only? Either way I like a 50. I think ever actually having to fight at 300 yards on U.S. soil is unlikely.

 

[Curmudgeon]

@Willjr75 re: "With a 36 yard zero which is similar to a 25 yard zero, it puts the round too high during normal combat engagements. (0 to 200) and it's better suited for longer range engagements."

Wouldn't a 36 yard zero mean it hits point of aim at 36 yards? Why is that too high?
Aiming center of mass at 100 yards puts the round at collarbone level.

The thing I like about the idea is theres a 9" range from 0-300.

 

[Bullcreek_Strategic]

@Willjr75 re: "With a 36 yard zero which is similar to a 25 yard zero, it puts the round too high during normal combat engagements. (0 to 200) and it's better suited for longer range engagements."

Wouldn't a 36 yard zero mean it hits point of aim at 36 yards? Why is that too high?
Aiming center of mass at 100 yards puts the round at collarbone level.

The thing I like about the idea is theres a 9" range from 0-300.

5.5" in a perfect world of conditions and 77gr.

@Willjr75 i learned this while i was in the Army and yes for Red dots and holographic, it works flawlessly, no thinking involved under 300yds

 

[dsdmmat]

Depends on the duty of the rifle (carbine).

Most of mine are zeroed for their purpose.
House gun is zeroed at 10 yards, that is the furthest shot inside my house.

Fun gun zeroed at 25 yards for shooing targets.

Everything else is zeroed at 100 yards with scope dope taped to the butt for ranges out to 400.

 

[tapper3]

with scope dope taped to the butt for ranges out to 400.

LOL -- old school. I thought I was the only one still doing that. I use target pasters - cheap and handy.

 

[ManrisFrack]

I chose 'other' before I read the post. My other is Maximum Point Blank Zero but it is essentially the same concept as the 36yrd zero. I chrono the load I'm using, run the numbers through this calculator ShootersCalculator.com | Point Blank Range Calculator and sight in.

Couple of relevant things:

I set up rifles for deer hunting, first and foremost.
I try to take 5 or more shots at 100yrds and average the height above zero and adjust from that (easier at most ranges than setting a target at odd distances such as 36yrds).
I prefer scopes with uniformly graduated reticles vs BDC reticles - makes it easier to use this system as long as you take the time to calculate and check drops.​

 

[Marine Cpl]

Wouldn't a 36 yard zero mean it hits point of aim at 36 yards? Why is that too high?
Aiming center of mass at 100 yards puts the round at collarbone level.

The thing I like about the idea is theres a 9" range from 0-300.

Yes it's point of aim at 36 yds. Your sights would be pointing the muzzle at an arc to hit at 36 yds. The bullet goes higher after that because of the arc, peaks at about 200 yards than starts dropping again and will be on at 300 yards.

So anything past 36 yards the bullet is high until it reaches 300 yards. It drops after that.

The AR15 below shows what I mean. In the picture you are actually aiming high to hit 50 yards in that example, the bullet keeps going high until it runs out of steam and drops to hit again at 200 yards. The same would happen at 36 yds and 300 yards.

 

[tapper3]

Keep in mind that all of this is predicated on whether you are using the iron sights or optics on a flat top receiver or optics on risers to see over the top of that stupid front sight tower.

Height above the muzzle makes a big difference in your sight in distance if you are trying to keep the trajectory fairly flat over various distances.

ETA - this is why I have to put the dope on the stocks of different guns........... can't keep all that crap straight without writing it down.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Yes it's point of aim at 36 yds. Your sights would be pointing the muzzle at an arc to hit at 36 yds. The bullet goes higher after that because of the arc, peaks at about 200 yards than starts dropping again and will be on at 300 yards.

So anything past 36 yards the bullet is high until it reaches 300 yards. It drops after that.

The AR15 below shows what I mean. In the picture you are actually aiming high to hit 50 yards in that example, the bullet keeps going high until it runs out of steam and drops to hit again at 200 yards. The same would happen at 36 yds and 300 yards.

Yes, but the peak is only a few inches. I guess it just boils down to preference and maybe ones practical situation.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yes, but the peak is only a few inches. I guess it just boils down to preference and maybe ones practical situation.

It peaks at 9 inches high in some points.

 

[BlackDragon]

What's the zero of choice on an ar10?

I was seriously considering taking my m&p10 this season, as I've gotten really comfortable with it over the spring/summer. I currently have it zeroed at 100 yards, and am pretty happy with it. Curious to hear opinions.

 

[shootemup]

Do you have a ballistic table for your bullet and load? This is for 69 gr Sierra MatchKing bullets.

Keep an eye on wind drift too.

Prepare to drive yourself crazy.

THANKS for the wind table !!

 

[SomeSoldier]

300

 

[Acer-m14]

battle site zero to me is Iron sights like the Mosin .. battle sited for 300 ..
but who actually aims in a battle besides snipers ..
i shoot both eyes open on irons or a scope 90% of the time hunting . if i see it my eyes lock on it .. its just knowing your gun .. point that sucker
and shoot ..

do you really need sights ??

hey shes hot and fun to watch ..

 

[Eddie Gunks]

It all comes down to what you plan to shoot.

My scar16 is set up for 25/300 meters for the irons. So in order for the irons to match up with the number on the turret (without additional calculations) it needs to be sighted in at 25m.

The tough part is with a 25/300 the bullet is like 7 inches high at 100. This made for some tough hold unders at 100 yards at 3 gun matches.....but the 3 setting (300) i was crushing it.

For magnified optics i use 100.

For red dots i use 50/200 cause the bullets are about +\- 2 inches from. The muzzle to just over 200.

Again. It all comes down to how and what you plan to shoot.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

THANKS for the wind table !!

Most ballistic calculators give you wind tables.

I use bullet flight. Applied ballistics is another good one. When i was picking mine, ab did not work on an iphone. So i use bullet flight. I paid for my app to get the additional features.

It is awesome.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

battle site zero to me is Iron sights like the Mosin .. battle sited for 300 ..
but who actually aims in a battle besides snipers

Was just about to post something similar. All this shit goes out the window when there are moving targets at varied distances and even more so when there is return fire. You need only look at videos of fire fights to see this.

 

[Bullcreek_Strategic]

Was just about to post something similar. All this shit goes out the window when there are moving targets at varied distances and even more so when there is return fire. You need only look at videos of fire fights to see this.

Ive been using 36yd zero overseas since 2012, never ran into a problem.

 

[speedkills27]

I'm a dummy when it comes to processing numbers quickly so 50/200 makes it a little easier. Ill have to do some further reading and learning on the 36 though, definitely a good thread.