Elizabeth Warren’s plan to forgive student debt would help 45 million students

[Blimey]

Finally the deets.

Elizabeth Warren's plan to forgive student debt would help 45 million students

I'm against this plan for a multitude of reasons

1) I'll have to pay for it

2) Why are we forgiving this but not credit card or auto debt?

3) People already spend way too much on shit degrees of no merit. Removing any incentive to stop doing that is only going to hurt us. Anybody reading this with $50k debt in a sociology degree I'm sorry but I am talking about you specifically

4) This will just raise the cost of tuitions (free money always does), thus making the burden I have to get my kids through school even worse, particularly when combined with a tax increase from #1

Now as for how they are paying for this and it's only a 1% tax on billionaires and 2% on people with $50 I do not believe that for one iota of a second.

Personally I believe we need to stop this tuition shit by:

1) Reducing government interaction with loans. Stop federally backstopping loans for degrees that do not have a known and reasonable ROI. So that means, sorry Jenny, you're not taking out $40k/year to study oil painting at a private school. Tough shit.

2) Allow student debt to be discharged in bankruptcy like it used to be. Tied in with #1 this will also weaken the appetite of lenders to throw money at dumb assholes spending six figures on worthless degrees, and that will temper tuition increases, too.

 

[Catskillkid]

https://www.americanthinker.com/art...bt_will_not_save_radical_college_faculty.html

Agree with you @Blimey. I came across this earlier today and this it's a good analysis of the situation.

 

[tirwin1]

2) Allow student debt to be discharged in bankruptcy like it used to be. Tied in with #1 this will also weaken the appetite of lenders to throw money at dumb assholes spending six figures on worthless degrees, and that will temper tuition increases, too.

I really don't think that is a good idea or that you want that. That is a recipe for disaster. All someone has to do is finance their college experience and then declare bankruptcy the day after getting a degree. All the debt is now discharged and the new graduate starts his/her career with a clean slate. There is a good reason that college debt is not allowed to be discharged in bankruptcy because the incentive to cheat is just too strong.

 

[2WheelGnnr]

I thought you could not get ride of FEDERAL LOAN DEBT via a bankruptcy...maybe Im wrong..still paying on mine..almost done and that was for a 2 year degree...LOL

I agree.....can fortive all that then we will all go to college vs working.....who will truly work while we all getting edumacated.....

 

[BDinPutnam]

You left out that it will ultimately be the middle class subsidizing degrees for people who make more money than they do since there is no way in hell her model for this works.

 

[Madmallard]

How come no one is looking at what is driving the cost of a college degree and fix that.

 

[spat]

If you want to fix the student debt crisis, the government should stop underwriting loans for any degree unlikely to lead to a job that can pay it back.

Electrical Engineering, sure, sign on the dotted line.

Lesbian Dance theory, or anything with the word "studies" in the title ? you're on your own kid.

If your graduates (on a per degree basis) don't consistently start paying their loans back within a year, no more loans for students in that program.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Anyone who thinks this is an good idea better remember Chief Elizabeth Crazywhore is part you know what and will most likely get them all forgiven......just to take back her plan.

 

[Grimscale]

No, you cannot discharge student loan debt via bankruptcy.

And I spent 20 years paying off my debt. 20 years of not being able to go out and be frivolous with my money.
Where's MY payback? Now they want my dollars to go toward paying off someone else's debt?

Ok.. I will pay the debt of some hot (actual) female college gymnast and she can recompense me in other ways.

 

[Diesel Tech]

If America's middle-class doesn't start taking back from the ruling minority billionaire class which has a strangle hold on us we're doomed. It costs a kid a 100k to get a degree. We are 26th in the westernized world in healthcare. Our life expectancy is actually going down! Wages are no way keeping up with inflation. Mango Mussolini and repukes want to give more tax breaks to billionaires while telling us Medicare and Social Security are in trouble. Deficit and Nat Debt skyrocketing like never before. People better wake the hell up.

 

[spat]

If America's middle-class doesn't start taking back from the ruling minority billionaire class which has a strangle hold on us we're doomed. It costs a kid a 100k to get a degree. We are 26th in the westernized world in healthcare. Our life expectancy is actually going down! Wages are no way keeping up with inflation. Mango Mussolini and repukes want to give more tax breaks to billionaires while telling us Medicare and Social Security are in trouble. Deficit and Nat Debt skyrocketing like never before. People better wake the hell up.

Why does it cost so much for a degree now ?

The cost of a degree has risen at several times the rate of inflation for decades.

The answer is simple, we tried the Democrat solution and threw money at the problem.

Guess what, when you throw money at something and you insulate the people receiving the benefit from the ones paying the cost rockets up and the quality drops like a stone. It's as sure as gravity.

 

[dsdmmat]

Why does it cost so much for a degree now ?

The cost of a degree has risen at several times the rate of inflation for decades.

The answer is simple, we tried the Democrat solution and threw money at the problem.

Guess what, when you throw money at something and you insulate the people receiving the benefit from the ones paying the cost rockets up and the quality drops like a stone. It's as sure as gravity.

Add to that the debt cannot be discharged through bankruptcy or the student’s death and you have the full answer.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Why does it cost so much for a degree now ?

The cost of a degree has risen at several times the rate of inflation for decades.

The answer is simple, we tried the Democrat solution and threw money at the problem.

Guess what, when you throw money at something and you insulate the people receiving the benefit from the ones paying the cost rockets up and the quality drops like a stone. It's as sure as gravity.

And, of course, 98% of it is financed by the government.

These are the same people who want the Federal government running 20% of the economy (health care).

 

[tirwin1]

If America's middle-class doesn't start taking back from the ruling minority billionaire class which has a strangle hold on us we're doomed. It costs a kid a 100k to get a degree. We are 26th in the westernized world in healthcare. Our life expectancy is actually going down! Wages are no way keeping up with inflation. Mango Mussolini and repukes want to give more tax breaks to billionaires while telling us Medicare and Social Security are in trouble. Deficit and Nat Debt skyrocketing like never before. People better wake the hell up.

Didn't realize this site attracted SJWs lol. The talking points never seem to change. Tax the billionaires and our problems will be solved - check. Lament the state of healthcare - check. Refer to republicans in a derogatory manner - check (while ignoring democrats - check).

 

[MadScientist]

My big issue with this is that there are simply too many kids going to college. It’s that simple. It used to be something that people with “special” minds went to, now kids are told they have to go just to get a job. And what you end up with is a fuckton of mediocre students getting degrees in psychology just to end up waiting tables.

I don’t want this to be taken as elitist either. The problem is a corruption of the concept of honest work. My biggest regret in life was going to college and not working harder to try to take over my grandfathers welding shop (he strongly discouraged me for some reason).

But fix this problem and guaranteed the “debt crisis” would be massively diminished.

 

[@thewheels]

This is just the dems special way of thanking the colleges and universities for their stellar success in turning out an endless stream of socialist mouth breathers.


I pray my kid wants to work in a trade and skip college. Or be a hacker for a bank security audit company. I'd be fine with that too.

 

[Blimey]

I really don't think that is a good idea or that you want that. That is a recipe for disaster. All someone has to do is finance their college experience and then declare bankruptcy the day after getting a degree. All the debt is now discharged and the new graduate starts his/her career with a clean slate. There is a good reason that college debt is not allowed to be discharged in bankruptcy because the incentive to cheat is just too strong.

It's not as bad as people think. There are reason bankruptcy lets people wipe their slate clean. Why can I run up vacation debt on credit cards and other things and discharge those, but not an education?

History of Student Loans: Bankruptcy Discharge

I understand the argument behind it, but what we have now is de facto debt slavery. There are people out there with a masters in social work making $35-40k/year with $150k in debt. These people are indentured servants to their student loans. They will never be able to get out from them, this is an albatross around their neck. They shouldn't have it. And on the other side of the coin, nobody should ever have given them this much debt for such a vocation.

 

[Blimey]

If you want to fix the student debt crisis, the government should stop underwriting loans for any degree unlikely to lead to a job that can pay it back.

Electrical Engineering, sure, sign on the dotted line.

Lesbian Dance theory, or anything with the word "studies" in the title ? you're on your own kid.

If your graduates (on a per degree basis) don't consistently start paying their loans back within a year, no more loans for students in that program.

Agree. Pretty much if your degree has the word studies in it, can you please leave room for cream?

 

[Deplorable Me]

Another dumb ass buying votes with my money.

 

[tirwin1]

It's not as bad as people think. There are reason bankruptcy lets people wipe their slate clean. Why can I run up vacation debt on credit cards and other things and discharge those, but not an education?

History of Student Loans: Bankruptcy Discharge

I understand the argument behind it, but what we have now is de facto debt slavery. There are people out there with a masters in social work making $35-40k/year with $150k in debt. These people are indentured servants to their student loans. They will never be able to get out from them, this is an albatross around their neck. They shouldn't have it. And on the other side of the coin, nobody should ever have given them this much debt for such a vocation.

Complete and total slavery....except for the fact that no one forced them to rack up $150k in debt for a job that pays only $35-40k a year. This isn't slavery - this is incredibly stupid behavior by people ignorant of basic economics. Life is about choices. If people make bad ones why should they be bailed out by everyone else?

The one change I would make would be to place a limit on the amount a student could borrow based on the expected starting salary of their major. If a person could no longer go to college then this is a good thing because it will have saved them from being a debt slave in the first place.

 

[reinhardt]

My 2 cents.
1) Don't parents help out their kids with tuition? I started saving for my kids education as soon as they were born. I felt it was my obligation to do so. Did I pay all of their tuition? Heck no, I wasn't a good money making machine but I helped out alot.
2) I suspect that there will be a large transference of $ when Boomers start taking their eternal siestas. Those inheritors with outstanding loans will then have the $ to pay off their student debts. If I may be so bold to suggest a slogan for this action: Let the underground siestas pay for the unpaid semesters.

 

[Blimey]

Complete and total slavery....except for the fact that no one forced them to rack up $150k in debt for a job that pays only $35-40k a year. This isn't slavery - this is incredibly stupid behavior by people ignorant of basic economics. Life is about choices. If people make bad ones why should they be bailed out by everyone else?

The one change I would make would be to place a limit on the amount a student could borrow based on the expected starting salary of their major. If a person could no longer go to college then this is a good thing because it will have saved them from being a debt slave in the first place.

How is discharging student debt any stupider or make less sense than discharging credit card debt accrued on vacations and tvs, etc.?

By allowing this to be discharged in bankruptcy and also by stopping the fed backstopping everything and push more for private loans, it will be harder for people to get $150k debt for a silly job that cannot ever possibly pay it back.

And no I absolutely do not want to pay for these people's stupid decisions. I want entities with an eye on ROI forced to do it, the same way credit card lenders look at credit risk and income, etc. Degrees should be looked at the same way.

 

[E the massive]

Bankruptcy ain't a clean get away. They liquidate all assets and garnish paychecks. One of the Bushes saw to that. Student loans started this mess. In the 70's tuition at Harvard was around 15 grand a year.

 

[oc shooter]

no way I condone any of this but who the hell am I just another lower middle class dope

 

[tirwin1]

How is discharging student debt any stupider or make less sense than discharging credit card debt accrued on vacations and tvs, etc.?

I want entities with an eye on ROI forced to do it, the same way credit card lenders look at credit risk and income, etc. Degrees should be looked at the same way.

And there is the problem. The credit bureaus and banks determine who gets credit cards and what their credit limits are. They have an eye on ROI for credit card debt. There is no one looking at ROI for student loans. It sure isn't the schools. The credit worthiness of a student doesn't even enter the equation. Right now loans are the means to plug the gap so a person can go to school. Loans are now treated as part of the overall financial aid package. It wasn't the case 30 years when I went to school. It's almost as if the default assumption is to simply take out a loan to finance a person's education.

 

[E the massive]

Find the investors that bought these loans and you will find who is really pushing this. Once again people are being used as useful idiots by billionaires.

 

[Blimey]

And there is the problem. The credit bureaus and banks determine who gets credit cards and what their credit limits are. They have an eye on ROI for credit card debt. There is no one looking at ROI for student loans. It sure isn't the schools. The credit worthiness of a student doesn't even enter the equation. Right now loans are the means to plug the gap so a person can go to school. Loans are now treated as part of the overall financial aid package. It wasn't the case 30 years when I went to school. It's almost as if the default assumption is to simply take out a loan to finance a person's education.

It’s a sick situation everyone has gotten used to. The assumption that a typical family must come up with $50-100k for an education and get a HELOC to do it is gross.

 

[Bustedknees]

Rape,,, 9 + % interest rates have nothing to do with problem because nobody talks about it..

 

[Grimscale]

If America's middle-class doesn't start taking back from the ruling minority billionaire class which has a strangle hold on us we're doomed.

The days of storming the castle, killing the occupant, and keeping their money is over. this is not a solution.
If you want to penalize successful people just for being successful they will "take their ball" and leave. Then where would you be?

It costs a kid a 100k to get a degree.

Then maybe you should look into why it costs so much to get a degree. Let's start with eliminating "tenure" and making teachers perform.

We are 26th in the westernized world in healthcare.

Citation please?
Also, explain what criteria you use to base your statement on. Experience, cost, final outcome, etc.
And what do you consider the "westernized world"?

Our life expectancy is actually going down!

Funny thing that... looking at a few graphs on the Googles, it appears life expectancy is going down for MANY Countries, not just the U.S.A.

Wages are no way keeping up with inflation.

so your answer to that is to steal the money from a few to give to the many. What did the "many" do to earn that money? How are you going to provide for those "many" when they refuse to be productive? When the source of money dries up? When jobs are cut because employers cannot afford to pay all of their employees some arbitrary number that sounded good in a five second political ad?
Also, which jobs/wages are you referring to? Entry level jobs a young adult will get to start their experience in the working world, or lifelong careers?
Hint: flipping burgers at McD's is not a lifelong career, and was NEVER intended to be what is colloquially referred to as "a living wage". It is, and always was, meant to be a stepping stone to a real career.

Mango Mussolini and repukes want to give more tax breaks to billionaires

Ignoring the juvenile name calling...

Yes, the Republicans love to give tax breaks to their friends, who are almost always rich. I have never understood why these people cannot just pay the same rate as the rest of the population.
I've had political science teachers say charging the same rate (ie: flat rate) to everyone is discriminatory to the poor. The poor end up paying a higher percentage of their earnings because of it.
But the solution is not to grade the scale in such a way that those who are most successful end up at the poverty level, with 99% of their earnings taken by the government to give to others. This goes back to my initial response. Forcing successful people to hand over the benefits of their success will only make them leave. Eventually you will have NO successful people to pillage, and the remaining loafers will starve.

The "American Dream" is and always was about working hard to better yourself and your place in life. Communism is the exact opposite of that. It presents the idea that you don't have to improve yourself to "get by" because everything you "NEED" is given to you.
Life, at least for humanity, is not about just "need". By that reckoning you will only receive enough food and water to subsist, only have as much shelter as is minimally possible. There will be no extravagance, no individuality, and no impetus to trying to excel.
Sounds like a pretty dreary place.

while telling us Medicare and Social Security are in trouble.

Ironic you would mention two government run plans which were originally supposed to be funded by the very people who would benefit from them.
And both of these plans have since been opened up to people who have NEVER contributed to them in the first place.
Here's a perfect example of the communist result. Money is taken away from the productive, given to the unproductive. At the end of the day, there is not enough money to go around. Eventually the productive decide it's not worth "busting ass" and give up. Now, there's no more money coming in at all.

Deficit and Nat Debt skyrocketing like never before.

Yes, because low intelligence and lazy people keep expecting the government to pay for everything, rather than taking responsibility for their own lives. A prime example is the latest call to have a certain segment of the population's debt "wiped out", which actually only moves the responsibility of repayment off of the individual's shoulders and places it on the shoulders of the taxpayer. This requires higher taxes, thus more people who can no longer afford to live on what used to be a "living wage", thus more people who rely on the government for everything, which requires even HIGHER taxes... ad nauseum.

I paid my debt. I'm not paying yours.

People better wake the hell up.

Yes, they should.
These proposals would turn America into another disease-ridden, bankrupt, miserable hell hole.
Is that really what you want?

 

[BDinPutnam]

@Grimscale: