Firearms Myths!!!

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ExMember_4526

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Robin said:
Another myth. That guy is an expert.
Robin
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The ironic thing about your comment is that he never claims to be, he in fact says that it’s about the validity of the view point being presented, not the presenter.

“Facts don’t care about your feelings” & all that!

But if you can specifically reference a point you take issue with, & actually cite sources, with vetted data points, that would indeed be welcomed!

Your “spydie senses” pick up on that?
 
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Robin said:
Yeah, I was trying to be nice, he's just flat out annoying.
Robin
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Ha, well that’s subjective. His mannerisms or style of discourse might annoy you, but what does that have to do with the content?

Again, “facts don’t care about feelings”. I understand you feel annoyed, but what does that have to do with the issues being discussed?
 
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Acer-m14 said:
ummm you got shot .. does it matter with what lol
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Umm... yes! Terminal ballistics are a thing! Also, considerations like mitigating “over travel” in a HD situation, etc Not challenging, looking for elaboration or clarification... There’s many factors to consider when trying to understand how a round will behave once it penetrates various mediums (like soft tissue). The construction of a round is one consideration.
 
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well Cali bans lead ammo .. VA wants to ban copper ammo ..

i got a mosin with steel core ammo .

they all will end up like my deer ..

shot placement ;)

sorry the neighbor got hit .. not on me .. its on the attacker .,. i didn't start it ..
 
Marine Cpl

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BoruchYaakov said:
“Hollow Points“ or open tips, could you elaborate and give context to your general statement? (Not being a jerk, actually interested)
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Without going into a long and drawn out post, handgun rounds are slow. The bullet only destroys tissue the size of the bullet itself unlike high speed rifle rounds that create a temporary stretch cavity well past tissue elasticity limits that even with a miss of a vital organs, the shockwave is so massive that vitals can be disrupted anyway and the hole is many times the diameter of the bullet itself.

So whether the slow handgun bullet is .355 (FMJ) in diameter or .621 (expanded hollow point) in diameter, vital organs need to actually be struck to create an immediate incapacitation. IE, heart, spinal column, ect.

What stops someone quickly with a handgun? Vitals being struck causing the lights to be turned off. Bleeding out from a slightly larger wound from an expanded hollow point that misses a vital organ does not stop someone quickly. It takes many minutes and sometimes hours to bleed out. Even a shot to the femoral artery takes many minutes.

That’s why handgun rounds suck. They are very survivable even if hit in the chest if vital organs are missed and this is proven unlike rifle hits anywhere in a chest which pretty much always means a kill.

All the hoopla and marketing BS sold to us by manufacturers that is in turn parroted by internet commandos about energy dump from expansion is hogwash. The FBI ballistics manual even states this and evidence of pistol wound survivability with hollow points that miss vitals also proves this.

In short, you have to hit vitals with a handgun bullet to IMMEDIATELY stop someone. It doesn’t matter if the vital is hit with something the size of a 9mm or a millimeter or 2 larger after expansion. We shoot to IMMEDIATELY stop. Not to bleed out later.
 
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BoruchYaakov said:


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Finally! An Internet commando that makes sense! Good videos.

But back to the hollow points. I’ll admit that a near miss of the heart for example by millimeters would have been a graze by an expanded hollow point. That’s a legitimate benefit.

But for me the penetration issues that hollow points have do not trump the sure penetration or should I say greater penetration of a ball round. Many people have gotten lucky and lived because a hollow point stopped just short of a vital. It happens all the time.

There are many things that decrease a hollow points penetration from reaching a vital organ. Distance from target is one. Not all shots are at 10 ft like when they are tested. A barrier is another. That bullet may have to go through an arm first consisting of clothing layers like a leather jacket on entry, flesh and bone, a leather jacket again upon exit of the arm, and then a leather jacket again for the 3rd time at the chest followed by more flesh and bone before it reaches the heart. And that’s on a frontal shot. If it enters the chest from the side, it has to penetrate more. Both distance and barriers slow a bullet down and decrease it’s energy to go further. And mind you that the bullet expanded in the arm. That expanded bullet with more diameter had to exit the arm and enter the chest already expanded. It may not make the 12 inch minimum as it did in gel when fired at 10 ft because it would be slower and have a greater surface area. Add a car door in front of that arm and now it’s even slower.

That’s why I prefer solids. I’d rather have more penetration than expansion.
 
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Marine Cpl said:
Finally! An Internet commando that makes sense! Good videos.

But back to the hollow points. I’ll admit that a near miss of the heart for example by millimeters would have been a graze by an expanded hollow point. That’s a legitimate benefit.

But for me the penetration issues that hollow points have do not trump the sure penetration or should I say greater penetration of a ball round. Many people have gotten lucky and lived because a hollow point stopped just short of a vital. It happens all the time.

There are many things that decrease a hollow points penetration from reaching a vital organ. Distance from target is one. Not all shots are at 10 ft like when they are tested. A barrier is another. That bullet may have to go through an arm first consisting of clothing layers like a leather jacket on entry, flesh and bone, a leather jacket again upon exit of the arm, and then a leather jacket again for the 3rd time at the chest followed by more flesh and bone before it reaches the heart. And that’s on a frontal shot. If it enters the chest from the side, it has to penetrate more. Both distance and barriers slow a bullet down and decrease it’s energy to go further. And mind you that the bullet expanded in the arm. That expanded bullet with more diameter had to exit the arm and enter the chest already expanded. It may not make the 12 inch minimum as it did in gel when fired at 10 ft because it would be slower and have a greater surface area. Add a car door in front of that arm and now it’s even slower.

That’s why I prefer solids. I’d rather have more penetration than expansion.
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Yes, agreed! That’s why I wanted you to elaborate. I was looking to clarify if your statement referred specifically to 9mm (& certain other pistol calibers) or was a general (“across the board”) statement on all ammunition. For instance open tip .223/5.56 certainly has benefits (application depending) over ball!

On shot placement:

32316B97-34C4-49E4-8696-CA03B9CC3CE4.jpeg

*I wouldn’t call Aaron an “internet commando”. I find him, & the other P&S guys, to be some of the few decent platforms of information dissemination.
 
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BoruchYaakov said:
Yes, agreed! That’s why I wanted you to elaborate. I was looking to clarify if your statement referred specifically to 9mm (& certain other pistol calibers) or was a general (“across the board”) statement on all ammunition. For instance open tip .223/5.56 certainly has benefits (application depending) over ball!

On shot placement:

View attachment 62322

*I wouldn’t call Aaron an “internet commando”. I find him, & the other P&S guys, to be some of the few decent platforms of information dissemination.
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On rifles, I actually like hollow points. They create an even bigger temporary stretch cavity.
 
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