Full Carry Putnam County

[Actinium]

Ok so this thread kind of has two parts. To start, I’ve had a Putnam county CCW for the past several years with a hunting /target restriction. I want the restrictions removed but I’m not even sure if it is possible to upgrade now that the pro 2A judge has died and it was honestly such a pain in the ass to get the permit initially with their asinine wait times and other regulatory nonsense that I really don’t even want to attempt this if there is essentially no change of it going my way. Has anyone had experience with this recently and/or know what the political climate is with this issue right now?
On another note, I realized I have to move in the very near future a few miles south to Westchester county. Long story but I didn’t get really any say in the matter. I called the permit office and found out that I can keep my permit information/file in Putnam county if I want. However, I am hesitant to change my address since I am worried that doing so could compromise any chance I ever have of getting an upgrade (Westchester apparently doesn’t issue them at all). In addition, I don’t want to subject myself to “safe storage checks” or other restrictions that Westchester county tries to impose (could I even be eligible for this if my file stays in Putnam?) Does anyone have any suggestions to what the best course of action would be?

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Welcome to the forum!

I can't really help you with the first part about whether or not you should bother trying to get your restrictions lifted, but I mean, what do you have to lose by trying? It's not like they will revoke your permit if they decline to lift your restrictions.
As to keeping your permit a Putnam county permit, I definitely would. You can keep your original county permit and judge if moving to an adjacent county. Unless your judge is a dick and decides he or she won't sign off on any more amendments. So, unless you've moved far enough away that it would be too far to make the trips for amendments, keep your Putnam county permit. Don't switch to Westchester. With keeping your Putnam county permit, you wouldn't have to worry about home inspections, since they won't know.

 

[Toecutter]

I haven’t heard any info about the new judge in Putnam . I’m sure if permits were a problem we would have heard about it here it’s been a while the new guys on the bench. There’s a few of us here from Putnam I’m sure someone will chime in.

 

[Popeye243]

He was pushed during the election cycle as a pro 2A judge. Time will tell. As far as the application process, as long as you had proof of a safe and a live fire course, you were good to go. Had a family member go through it 2 years ago with a non 2A friendly judge in Putnam and it went through without issue.

 

[Actinium]

Welcome to the forum!

I can't really help you with the first part about whether or not you should bother trying to get your restrictions lifted, but I mean, what do you have to lose by trying? It's not like they will revoke your permit if they decline to lift your restrictions.
As to keeping your permit a Putnam county permit, I definitely would. You can keep your original county permit and judge if moving to an adjacent county. Unless your judge is a dick and decides he or she won't sign off on any more amendments. So, unless you've moved far enough away that it would be too far to make the trips for amendments, keep your Putnam county permit. Don't switch to Westchester. With keeping your Putnam county permit, you wouldn't have to worry about home inspections, since they won't know.

Hi-I'm not worried about them revoking my permit if they won't upgrade my license to full carry, but I do feel like I only have one attempt at this and if I fail to get it approved this time, it makes it less likely they will consider an upgrade somewhere down the line in the future. I also am concerned with regards to the move as I wonder if having a westchester adress on my permit/upgrade request will make it less likely to go in my favor (i.e. putnam judge being concerned about issuing an upgrade to someone who will carry in Westchester county). Not that I have any concrete evidence to support this-just a possible scenario I came up with that seems at least somewhat plausible.

And also-what about the whole police inspection of a "secure" gun safe that is part of the application upgrade process. Would Putnam county really send staff outside the county to conduct such a visit?

 

[Toecutter]

I can tell you I went through the process 7years ago. It wasn’t bad other then the wait, everyone involved was helpful . As stated you need a live fire training cert. send in paperwork. I waited about 5 months .They will call you in for an interview with a dt which they go through your paperwork ask if you lied about anything, stuff of that nature. Then a month or so later you go to see a judge ,in my case they must of approved 50 people that day . They brought us up 3 at a time. Judge asked the the dt if he had any objections he said no ,then approved us.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

These are really questions you should be asking the Putnam County Pistol Clerk. He or she will tell you how they would likely handle your situation. Does Putnam do safe storage inspections? I thought it was just Westchester that did that?

If Putnam County lets you keep your permit and judge even though you moved to Westchester, I don't see how they would have an issue granting you your unrestricted. I don't know if the counties would be sharing info about you or not. Again, that would be a good question to ask the pistol clerk in Putnam.
People from outside of Westchester with ccw permits carry there. It's not like you have to check in at the police station and declare anything or that someones unrestricted permit is suddenly void when they travel to Westchester county. Though each county has it's own system of applying for a permit and in some cases added rules and regs for having that counties permit, the pistol permit is a NYS permit and it is good anywhere in the state with the exception of NYC.
My point is that if Putnam is letting you keep your current permit with them after your move, you would still be doing all your pistol related business with them and not Westchester, address be damned. I don't think they would give a shit about Westchester unless the two counties talk to each other about permit holders who move from one county to the other, which I doubt they do, but that is something to ask Putnam.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Who told you you could keep your Putnam permit when you move to Westchester?

I am pretty sure the folks down there won't look kindly upon that.

Not to discourage you, just seems like hinky advice to me.

I'm curious on the topic of our new Judge generally, keeping an eye on this thread.

 

[Actinium]

Who told you you could keep your Putnam permit when you move to Westchester?

I am pretty sure the folks down there won't look kindly upon that.

Not to discourage you, just seems like hinky advice to me.

I'm curious on the topic of our new Judge generally, keeping an eye on this thread.

The person I called in Putnam told me I had two options. One was to have my file shipped to Westchester, and the other was to keep my Putnam permit with just an address amendment. Though she said I would still have to go to Putnam to have all amendments filed in the future if I chose the latter option.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

The person I called in Putnam told me I had two options. One was to have my file shipped to Westchester, and the other was to keep my Putnam permit with just an address amendment. Though she said I would still have to go to Putnam to have all amendments filed in the future if I chose the latter option.

And that is what I have been told when I asked my clerk about moving to an adjacent county. I understand though, that a judge could refuse to sign off on new amendments if they wanted to. I mean, they could do that even if you stayed in your county.

 

[Actinium]

And that is what I have been told when I asked my clerk about moving to an adjacent county. I understand though, that a judge could refuse to sign off on new amendments if they wanted to. I mean, they could do that even if you stayed in your county.

I know, and this has been something I worried about ever since I found out I would have to move years ago. It is just frustrating to have gone through all the work to get a permit in an (apparently pro 2a) county and now have all that threatened just because I need to relocate 15 miles south. I don't think that getting amendments refused by a judge is likely for having a different address (I don't think I even want to buy any more guns any time soon), but it seems likely to be something that could get in the way of potentially upgrading. Regardless, it doesn't look like I have much of a choice since I need to report the address change. I guess I could ask the clerk what they think the outcome would be, but if this is up to the judge's discretion, it would probably be safer politically for them to just deny the upgrade if I am living in another county. It would save him any liability from getting in trouble with Westchester (which basically never upgrades permits to full carry).

But on another note, say for the sake of argument I already had a full carry license in Putnam (or some other county) and then moved and transferred my file to Westchester. Would Westchester actually downgrade someone's permit for no reason other than the move?

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I know, and this has been something I worried about ever since I found out I would have to move years ago. It is just frustrating to have gone through all the work to get a permit in an (apparently pro 2a) county and now have all that threatened just because I need to relocate 15 miles south. I don't think that getting amendments refused by a judge is likely for having a different address (I don't think I even want to buy any more guns any time soon), but it seems likely to be something that could get in the way of potentially upgrading. Regardless, it doesn't look like I have much of a choice since I need to report the address change. I guess I could ask the clerk what they think the outcome would be, but if this is up to the judge's discretion, it would probably be safer politically for them to just deny the upgrade if I am living in another county.

I don't know how it is for you down there, but in my county I can request a meeting with my judge if I wanted to talk to him. I have thought of doing this as he is the least 2A friendly judge that signs permits in my county. So when thinking of getting my restrictions lifted I had thought to meet with him first, before doing anything, and let him know that I was interested in having them lifted and to let him know my reasons and that I planned on taking a whole regime of training courses on top of the required state one, Etc.. All complete BS to have to go through but training is never a bad thing and I figured meeting with the judge, putting a face to the name and letting him know my plan would be better than just applying to have my restrictions removed. I haven't done it yet, but if I end up doing it that is the way I'll approach it.

 

[BDinPutnam]

@ArmedCorgi I would do the training first maybe.

 

[Robin]

'No' is always the answer if you are afraid to ask.
Robin

 

[Chevusa]

It’s funny how people say the restrictions are meaningless, yet people still want to get them removed. Why bother? Do whatever you want. The legal scholars here said it was ok.

 

[Actinium]

It’s funny how people say the restrictions are meaningless, yet people still want to get them removed. Why bother? Do whatever you want. The legal scholars here said it was ok.

I know the restrictions are meaningless and don’t hold any legal weight. it just makes it easier to get out of state carry permits and makes it less likely that your permit gets revoked if you are “caught” carrying outside of them

 

[Cooolone]

Damn right, administrative attachments placed upon a "Right" are not law, they can never be. They get away with it because it's not challenged, and if it is, deals are made to prevent a court precedent, period!

But that said... Please provide case history of revoked permits... due to using or carrying outside administrative restrictions! Please, I'm waiting!

That said, geeee, here's another noobie asking how to skirt law. I don't bite! Do what ever your State or County requires! When you've been around a while, ask again, you might get a different answer, lmao!

Funny because I'm sure you (OP) used the search function right???

Anyways, Have a Nice Day.

 

[Actinium]

Damn right, administrative attachments placed upon a "Right" are not law, they can never be. They get away with it because it's not challenged, and if it is, deals are made to prevent a court precedent, period!

But that said... Please provide case history of revoked permits... due to using or carrying outside administrative restrictions! Please, I'm waiting!

That said, geeee, here's another noobie asking how to skirt law. I don't bite! Do what ever your State or County requires! When you've been around a while, ask again, you might get a different answer, lmao!

Funny because I'm sure you (OP) used the search function right???

Anyways, Have a Nice Day.

What law am I trying to skirt?

 

[Chevusa]

Damn right, administrative attachments placed upon a "Right" are not law, they can never be.

Actually there is legislation in the state assembly pending now that would do just that. It would name the restrictions in penal law 400. Also, by your logic it would also be illegal to require a permit to exercise a right. Yet I'm willing to bet you did just that, and got your permit. Why? The reason is because you know your legal opinions will fall on deaf ears when you appear in the court room in handcuffs and shackles. I'm not saying I disagree with your mindset, but this is NY state and you will abide by their rules or suffer the consequences.

 

[Cooolone]

Actually there is legislation in the state assembly pending now that would do just that. It would name the restrictions in penal law 400. Also, by your logic it would also be illegal to require a permit to exercise a right. Yet I'm willing to bet you did just that, and got your permit. Why? The reason is because you know your legal opinions will fall on deaf ears when you appear in the court room in handcuffs and shackles. I'm not saying I disagree with your mindset, but this is NY state and you will abide by their rules or suffer the consequences.

Yawn... Ok, go ahead, NY, go legislate restrictions... SCOTUS has already passed guidance on the subject. NYS already restricts 2A by making it unlawful to open carry. Further restrictions will be struck down if ever passed, can't have it both ways. Want to make a process to sift through those, the courts have allowed the States to exercise reasonable prudence upon, ie, those with a propensity to commit violence against others, sure, ok. But even the "good character" clause is subject to scrutiny. Why not just make an allowance for permits to be issued only to redheads who apply on their 24th birthday only when the moon is wanning after an eclipse! Is the same shit...

We all know in NY, they do whatever they want. If you knew anything about the Constitution, you'd know no law is valid if it is in violation of it, pass them all you want. Have fun. You do what you want, I do what I want.

And No, I have no problem with a paper trail, or so called permit to carry in my pocket. I do have a problem with arbitrary and capricious application of laws, ordinances and or administrative functions, which are by design Defacto Restrictions placed upon law abiding citizens seeking to exercise their rights! When they come looking for them, who says my firearms must be at the location placed upon my permit. Who says I owe them the information of where they might be, ie, out of state. And no, who says I just have a safe! Unenforceable and in direct contradiction with SCOTUS ruling (rendering a firearm unusable for defense).

And no, I am a law abiding citizen of course. I voluntarily comply with laws as I deem fit. And you'd waste a lot of time trying to find more than a VT law violation with my name attached . Maybe I just practice what I preach and I'm so good at it, I've never had an issue where I got shackled! Have I had LE encounters, you bet ya'... Walked away each and every time.

My legal opinion would carry no weight inside a courtroom due to the systemized ostracizing of any regular folk seeking to redress their grievances before the court unless of course you obtain some legal representation that pro belongs to the same country club as the residing Judge responsible for handling your case. (Breath)... Lol

But thanks for providing the case history, my point on this has never been disproven.

What law am I trying to skirt?

You tell me...!?

 

[BDinPutnam]

What law am I trying to skirt?

FWIW that was not my take-away at all and generally I have a high quality troll detector built in.

 

[Chevusa]

SCOTUS has already passed guidance on the subject.

SCOUTS has affirmed that the right to keep a gun applies in the household. Not carrying concealed.

If you knew anything about the Constitution, you'd know no law is valid if it is in violation of it, pass them all you want.

Then why did you comply with it and obtain a permit? Talking online and doing in real life are quite different things aren't they?

Maybe I just practice what I preach

You clearly don't as presented by your conflicting statements. A) "No law is valid if it is in violation of it, pass them all you want. Have fun. You do what you want, I do what I want." B) "I have no problem with a paper trail, or so called permit to carry in my pocket", "I am a law abiding citizen of course."

thanks for providing the case history, my point on this has never been disproven.

You are making an unreasonable request and the failure of someone to take the bait doesn't prove anything. Who has the time to write to every court in every town/village/county in the state to request public record of court proceedings, and what court has the resources to apply to having a clerk search out the matter? To think it hasn't happened is foolish. A lot of you restriction breakers take 2 extreme and opposing positions on the matter in direct conflict of one another. Example: A) Your permit can be pulled for wearing purple socks! B) Nobody has ever had a permit taken for carrying a gun where the licensing officer said you're not allowed to. They would never! It would set a bad precedent!
Well, which one is it?

 

[ArmedCorgi]

A lot of you restriction breakers take 2 extreme and opposing positions on the matter in direct conflict of one another. Example: A) Your permit can be pulled for wearing purple socks! B) Nobody has ever had a permit taken for carrying a gun where the licensing officer said you're not allowed to. They would never! It would set a bad precedent!
Well, which one is it?

My money is on purple socks.

 

[Actinium]

Yawn... Ok, go ahead, NY, go legislate restrictions... SCOTUS has already passed guidance on the subject. NYS already restricts 2A by making it unlawful to open carry. Further restrictions will be struck down if ever passed, can't have it both ways. Want to make a process to sift through those, the courts have allowed the States to exercise reasonable prudence upon, ie, those with a propensity to commit violence against others, sure, ok. But even the "good character" clause is subject to scrutiny. Why not just make an allowance for permits to be issued only to redheads who apply on their 24th birthday only when the moon is wanning after an eclipse! Is the same shit...

We all know in NY, they do whatever they want. If you knew anything about the Constitution, you'd know no law is valid if it is in violation of it, pass them all you want. Have fun. You do what you want, I do what I want.

And No, I have no problem with a paper trail, or so called permit to carry in my pocket. I do have a problem with arbitrary and capricious application of laws, ordinances and or administrative functions, which are by design Defacto Restrictions placed upon law abiding citizens seeking to exercise their rights! When they come looking for them, who says my firearms must be at the location placed upon my permit. Who says I owe them the information of where they might be, ie, out of state. And no, who says I just have a safe! Unenforceable and in direct contradiction with SCOTUS ruling (rendering a firearm unusable for defense).

And no, I am a law abiding citizen of course. I voluntarily comply with laws as I deem fit. And you'd waste a lot of time trying to find more than a VT law violation with my name attached . Maybe I just practice what I preach and I'm so good at it, I've never had an issue where I got shackled! Have I had LE encounters, you bet ya'... Walked away each and every time.

My legal opinion would carry no weight inside a courtroom due to the systemized ostracizing of any regular folk seeking to redress their grievances before the court unless of course you obtain some legal representation that pro belongs to the same country club as the residing Judge responsible for handling your case. (Breath)... Lol

But thanks for providing the case history, my point on this has never been disproven.





You tell me...!?

Look I don’t agree with pretty much any regulation that NY state has put in place regarding guns and I am not endorsing following them because I believe it’s the right/moral thing to do. I am doing so because ignoring them can at best get your permit revoked (and thus all your guns confiscated) and at worst get you put in prison. Any sensible person would agree with me. Please stop trolling my thread

 

[Cooolone]

SCOUTS has affirmed that the right to keep a gun applies in the household. Not carrying concealed.

SCOTUS has noted the inability of the State to restrict by not allowing open "AND" concealed. Check your fire! They can't have both...

Then why did you comply with it and obtain a permit? Talking online and doing in real life are quite different things aren't they?

You misquote my posts! I have and will continue to explain that "Administrative" addition or restrictions are not lawful and are bullshit. You align my posts with Constitutional Carry and I have not endorsed that in these statements. Re-read a few times. Strict Scrutiny does not mean there couldn't be a process, just that the limits of exercising your 2A Right NOT be Infringed! Maybe it's too complex for some to understand.

You clearly don't as presented by your conflicting statements. A) "No law is valid if it is in violation of it, pass them all you want. Have fun. You do what you want, I do what I want." B) "I have no problem with a paper trail, or so called permit to carry in my pocket", "I am a law abiding citizen of course."

You are making an unreasonable request and the failure of someone to take the bait doesn't prove anything. Who has the time to write to every court in every town/village/county in the state to request public record of court proceedings, and what court has the resources to apply to having a clerk search out the matter? To think it hasn't happened is foolish. A lot of you restriction breakers take 2 extreme and opposing positions on the matter in direct conflict of one another. Example: A) Your permit can be pulled for wearing purple socks! B) Nobody has ever had a permit taken for carrying a gun where the licensing officer said you're not allowed to. They would never! It would set a bad precedent!
Well, which one is it?

You make it seem like this has actually happened, every court, every Town, yeah ok. But NO, this precedent does not exist, and it won't! But too many fall for the koolaid they pass around. It's works especially on the weak minded, ad weak backboned! Purple socks? Good one, why not just anyone who has eyes?

Fact is you're 99.9% never going to have an encounter that's unfavorable as long as you aren't:

1. Breaking a 2nd law, or more at the same time.
2. Aren't a gangbanger
3. Don't have anger issues

Lmao!

There is no extreme or conflict in what I have posted, continually... A consistent cynical diatribe towards ridiculous assumptions about the big bad Boogeyman that just doesn't exist!

 

[nortatoga]

Yawn... Ok, go ahead, NY, go legislate restrictions... SCOTUS has already passed guidance on the subject. NYS already restricts 2A by making it unlawful to open carry. Further restrictions will be struck down if ever passed, can't have it both ways. Want to make a process to sift through those, the courts have allowed the States to exercise reasonable prudence upon, ie, those with a propensity to commit violence against others, sure, ok. But even the "good character" clause is subject to scrutiny. Why not just make an allowance for permits to be issued only to redheads who apply on their 24th birthday only when the moon is wanning after an eclipse! Is the same shit...

We all know in NY, they do whatever they want. If you knew anything about the Constitution, you'd know no law is valid if it is in violation of it, pass them all you want. Have fun. You do what you want, I do what I want.

And No, I have no problem with a paper trail, or so called permit to carry in my pocket. I do have a problem with arbitrary and capricious application of laws, ordinances and or administrative functions, which are by design Defacto Restrictions placed upon law abiding citizens seeking to exercise their rights! When they come looking for them, who says my firearms must be at the location placed upon my permit. Who says I owe them the information of where they might be, ie, out of state. And no, who says I just have a safe! Unenforceable and in direct contradiction with SCOTUS ruling (rendering a firearm unusable for defense).

And no, I am a law abiding citizen of course. I voluntarily comply with laws as I deem fit. And you'd waste a lot of time trying to find more than a VT law violation with my name attached . Maybe I just practice what I preach and I'm so good at it, I've never had an issue where I got shackled! Have I had LE encounters, you bet ya'... Walked away each and every time.

My legal opinion would carry no weight inside a courtroom due to the systemized ostracizing of any regular folk seeking to redress their grievances before the court unless of course you obtain some legal representation that pro belongs to the same country club as the residing Judge responsible for handling your case. (Breath)... Lol

But thanks for providing the case history, my point on this has never been disproven.





You tell me...!?

Would you care to cite which SCOTUS ruling/opinion you are referencing?

 

[Acer-m14]

get that PP .. jump the hoops .. toss out some $$$ too .. SCOTUS LOL ..

ready to feel the burn ..

Two men from out of the area, one with a gun, who fled police, released on appearance tickets

www.thebatavian.com