NYS Law Regarding Pistol AR Conversion

[1075tech]

I'm actually curious about this.

Also curious about how to turn a stripped lower into a pistol...my friend was asking and I didn't have an answer to tell xim

It depends on the county. When I built mine, I filled out the amendment with the information from the lower. There's a box to check "frame only". Provided a copy of the receipt. Because NY wants to know barrel length and caliber, I just had to send a copy of the receipt for the barrel.

 

[1075tech]

But as to OPs question, I guess you can just remove the brace. Some will go as far as saying that you should replace the buffer tube with one that cannot accommodate a brace.

I'm in the wait and see category. I was already considering doing a F1 on mine. My other consideration was to get a can and have it P&W for a one stamp rifle

 

[SomeSoldier]

But as to OPs question, I guess you can just remove the brace. Some will go as far as saying that you should replace the buffer tube with one that cannot accommodate a brace.

I'm in the wait and see category. I was already considering doing a F1 on mine. My other consideration was to get a can and have it P&W for a one stamp rifle

But if the brace now makes it an SBR, then changing the barrel to 16+" would make it a rifle. No need to change brace.

Want to make it back into a pistol, remove brace, but 10-" barrel back on.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

But if the brace now makes it an SBR, then changing the barrel to 16+" would male it a rifle. No need to change brace.

Want to make it back into a pistol, remove brace, but 10-" barrel back on.

Can you have a brace on a rifle that is trying to be a rifle(no sbr or anything), or does it need to be a stock?

Can you have a dedicated lower with a brace, and have 2 uppers that you change out depending if you want to go rifle or a shorty for pistol?

 

[PutnamCharlie]

If it doesn't fall into the sbr category you can have whatever you want as a stock as far as I have read.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Can you have a brace on a rifle that is trying to be a rifle(no sbr or anything), or does it need to be a stock?

Did the ATF ban the brace or did they ban using it on a pistol AR because it makes it into an SBR

Can you have a dedicated lower with a brace, and have 2 uppers that you change out depending if you want to go rifle or a shorty for pistol?

This is where my head is and would think this is legal based on that TC Contendor case.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

If it doesn't fall into the sbr category you can have whatever you want as a stock as far as I have read.

That's what I thought but I've never looked in that closely

 

[Vantrepes]

I'm going from memory from before braces were OK with the ATF, so don't take it as gospel, or even correct at this point. I got into an argument with my buddies GF 10 years ago when she claimed her brother bought an SBR at a NY gun shop, and walked out with it the same day. Spoiler alert: She was full of shit, and had based her entire argument on the fact that her shit head felon brother had been arrested with a gun..... Shocking, I know, a leftist that wouldn't let the facts get in their way....
That led me down the rabbit hole of ATF and NFA stupidity.

A firearm that is manufactured as a rifle (intended to be fired from the shoulder with two hands and has a rifled barrel) has to always comply with the requirements for a rifle. Minimum 16" barrel, with a minimum overall length of 26". Rifles are measured with any collapsing, or folding stock extended when it comes to the overall length.

A firearm that is manufactured as a shotgun (intended to be fired from the shoulder with two hands and has a smooth bore barrel) has to always comply with the requirements for shotgun. Minimum 18" barrel, with an minimum overall length of 26"

A firearm manufactured as a pistol, has to be intended to be fired with one hand, but there is no barrel length requirements, or OAL requirements. That's why adding a vert grip to a pistol with a flash light rail under the barrel makes it an NFA item, it's now intended to be fired with two hands, and not a pistol, and doesn't comply with the barrel length requirements of a rifle.

A stripped receiver is manufactured as "Other" that is neither a pistol, nor a rifle at the time of manufacture. It doesn't carry the limits that a receiver registered at the manufacturing level does. Once it's built into a rifle though, it's illegal to change that to anything but a rifle configuration without a tax stamp.

Rifles can be purchased from an FFL at 18. Pistols and "Others" can be purchased at 21. State law changes that, but that's the Fed requirement. In some states, it's illegal to buy a pistol from an FFL because of the Fed requirement, but perfectly legal to buy one from a private citizen at 18.

You can turn a firearm manufactured as a pistol into firearm intended to be fired with two hands from the shoulder as long as it meets the rifle length requirements. That means if you take a pistol frame (the registered part), add a 16"+ barrel, and a stock somehow, you are legal as long as you meet the rifle requirements, and as long as it was never in a non-legal configuration during assembly. If you put the long barrel on first, then add the stock, you're legal all the time. If you put the stock on first, you have an NFA item (SBR) until the longer barrel is installed.

AR pistols were pistols because there was no way to attach a stock to the buffer tube. No threaded hole for the stock screw, and no embossment for the carbine stock to lock into, so it wasn't intended to be fired from the shoulder. The first braces clamped onto that tube as it was, with no other attachment. I think the ATF approved a version that went onto a carbine buffer tube (conflicting with their previous ruling even more), but I'm not sure

There was a time when the ATF said you were a felon if you held the plain pistol buffer tube against your shoulder and fired. I believe that's what got their wee-wee slapped in court. They were saying "Yes, this item is legal BUT you can't use it in THIS fashion." They don't get to make the law on USE, they make rulings on an item meeting the technical requirements of the laws that were already written.

That in turn led to the braces being submitted, and being deemed legal by the ATF because it was INTENDED to be wrapped around the forearm, and not held to the shoulder. Then the ATF said it was illegal to shoulder a brace, since that wasn't the indented use, and they either got smacked again, or dodged the slap by changing their ruling, so it was then legal to shoulder a braced pistol.

In NY, almost all of that is irrelevant. You can't get a tax stamp for a SBR, or SBS, and we have the weight limit for pistols in the AWB, but again, I haven't kept up on it. The Shockwave and like were sold, but there was something about them being illegal under NY law, "sort of, but not really, so be safe and just give them to the police" or something like that. Again, I haven't kept up on it. You can buy an "Other" receiver, and register it as a pistol in NY, as long as it meets all the NY state law requirements. How you register it depends on the County. I'm not sure, since I never went through it, but the whole "Multi-Caliber" marking on some receivers might cause an issue in NY, since they want the caliber on the permit too. Then again, people have registered caliber conversions before, so who knows, ask the PP office, and see how badly they want to screw with you.

Other weird shit because of the classifications:
When the NFA went into effect, all long guns were required to have a 18" barrel. It changed when the Gov sold a bunch of surplus M1 carbines with 16 3/4" barrels as legal long guns in the 60's. OOPS... they created a whole bunch of felons by breaking the law themselves and not filing the correct paper work to transfer SBRs.... so they changed the law, reducing the requirement for rifles to 16".... Gov at it's finest. Learned that in the Forgotten Weapons video they just put out.
The Taurus Judge line of pistols can be chambered to accept a 410 shell, but have to have a rifled barrel, otherwise it would be an SBS
The short shotguns with a birds head grip (Rem 14 and the Shockwave) are legal as "Other" because they fall in between a bunch of the categories, and don't have a rifled barrel.
I don't remember who (Franklin Armory maybe?) came out with an AR-15 pattern rifle that had a smooth bore barrel so it would fall into the same category as the Shockwave. Accuracy was a joke, but the gun fit within the legal requirements, had a short barrel, and an OAL under 26".

Short version: The end result of them trying to band-aid these stupid poorly written laws are a morass of confusing, and conflicting requirements

 

[MuttCat]

And there we are again....

 

[Slacker43]

I'm going from memory from before braces were OK with the ATF, so don't take it as gospel, or even correct at this point. I got into an argument with my buddies GF 10 years ago when she claimed her brother bought an SBR at a NY gun shop, and walked out with it the same day. Spoiler alert: She was full of shit, and had based her entire argument on the fact that her shit head felon brother had been arrested with a gun..... Shocking, I know, a leftist that wouldn't let the facts get in their way....
That led me down the rabbit hole of ATF and NFA stupidity.

A firearm that is manufactured as a rifle (intended to be fired from the shoulder with two hands and has a rifled barrel) has to always comply with the requirements for a rifle. Minimum 16" barrel, with a minimum overall length of 26". Rifles are measured with any collapsing, or folding stock extended when it comes to the overall length.

A firearm that is manufactured as a shotgun (intended to be fired from the shoulder with two hands and has a smooth bore barrel) has to always comply with the requirements for shotgun. Minimum 18" barrel, with an minimum overall length of 26"

A firearm manufactured as a pistol, has to be intended to be fired with one hand, but there is no barrel length requirements, or OAL requirements. That's why adding a vert grip to a pistol with a flash light rail under the barrel makes it an NFA item, it's now intended to be fired with two hands, and not a pistol, and doesn't comply with the barrel length requirements of a rifle.

A stripped receiver is manufactured as "Other" that is neither a pistol, nor a rifle at the time of manufacture. It doesn't carry the limits that a receiver registered at the manufacturing level does. Once it's built into a rifle though, it's illegal to change that to anything but a rifle configuration without a tax stamp.

Rifles can be purchased from an FFL at 18. Pistols and "Others" can be purchased at 21. State law changes that, but that's the Fed requirement. In some states, it's illegal to buy a pistol from an FFL because of the Fed requirement, but perfectly legal to buy one from a private citizen at 18.

You can turn a firearm manufactured as a pistol into firearm intended to be fired with two hands from the shoulder as long as it meets the rifle length requirements. That means if you take a pistol frame (the registered part), add a 16"+ barrel, and a stock somehow, you are legal as long as you meet the rifle requirements, and as long as it was never in a non-legal configuration during assembly. If you put the long barrel on first, then add the stock, you're legal all the time. If you put the stock on first, you have an NFA item (SBR) until the longer barrel is installed.

AR pistols were pistols because there was no way to attach a stock to the buffer tube. No threaded hole for the stock screw, and no embossment for the carbine stock to lock into, so it wasn't intended to be fired from the shoulder. The first braces clamped onto that tube as it was, with no other attachment. I think the ATF approved a version that went onto a carbine buffer tube (conflicting with their previous ruling even more), but I'm not sure

There was a time when the ATF said you were a felon if you held the plain pistol buffer tube against your shoulder and fired. I believe that's what got their wee-wee slapped in court. They were saying "Yes, this item is legal BUT you can't use it in THIS fashion." They don't get to make the law on USE, they make rulings on an item meeting the technical requirements of the laws that were already written.

That in turn led to the braces being submitted, and being deemed legal by the ATF because it was INTENDED to be wrapped around the forearm, and not held to the shoulder. Then the ATF said it was illegal to shoulder a brace, since that wasn't the indented use, and they either got smacked again, or dodged the slap by changing their ruling, so it was then legal to shoulder a braced pistol.

In NY, almost all of that is irrelevant. You can't get a tax stamp for a SBR, or SBS, and we have the weight limit for pistols in the AWB, but again, I haven't kept up on it. The Shockwave and like were sold, but there was something about them being illegal under NY law, "sort of, but not really, so be safe and just give them to the police" or something like that. Again, I haven't kept up on it. You can buy an "Other" receiver, and register it as a pistol in NY, as long as it meets all the NY state law requirements. How you register it depends on the County. I'm not sure, since I never went through it, but the whole "Multi-Caliber" marking on some receivers might cause an issue in NY, since they want the caliber on the permit too. Then again, people have registered caliber conversions before, so who knows, ask the PP office, and see how badly they want to screw with you.

Other weird shit because of the classifications:
When the NFA went into effect, all long guns were required to have a 18" barrel. It changed when the Gov sold a bunch of surplus M1 carbines with 16 3/4" barrels as legal long guns in the 60's. OOPS... they created a whole bunch of felons by breaking the law themselves and not filing the correct paper work to transfer SBRs.... so they changed the law, reducing the requirement for rifles to 16".... Gov at it's finest. Learned that in the Forgotten Weapons video they just put out.
The Taurus Judge line of pistols can be chambered to accept a 410 shell, but have to have a rifled barrel, otherwise it would be an SBS
The short shotguns with a birds head grip (Rem 14 and the Shockwave) are legal as "Other" because they fall in between a bunch of the categories, and don't have a rifled barrel.
I don't remember who (Franklin Armory maybe?) came out with an AR-15 pattern rifle that had a smooth bore barrel so it would fall into the same category as the Shockwave. Accuracy was a joke, but the gun fit within the legal requirements, had a short barrel, and an OAL under 26".

Short version: The end result of them trying to band-aid these stupid poorly written laws are a morass of confusing, and conflicting requirements

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought under the safe act bullshit you could not have an AR pistol in ny due to the mag not being inserted in the grip. It has been a long time since I gave a shit about the laws in this shithole state but that sticks in my memory.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought under the safe act bullshit you could not have an AR pistol in ny due to the mag not being inserted in the grip. It has been a long time since I gave a shit about the laws in this shithole state but that sticks in my memory.

Fix mag makes it legal.

 

[Slacker43]

Fix mag makes it legal.

Gotcha. I didn't consider that end around. I'd personally rather not have one that neutered but to each his own.

 

[1075tech]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought under the safe act bullshit you could not have an AR pistol in ny due to the mag not being inserted in the grip. It has been a long time since I gave a shit about the laws in this shithole state but that sticks in my memory.

Fix mag makes it legal.

Since I purpose built my 6.5 Grendel for hunting, I fixed a 5 round magazine.

It measures 26.5" with the brace removed so I can just put a vfg on it and call it an "other".

 

[1075tech]

But if the brace now makes it an SBR, then changing the barrel to 16+" would make it a rifle. No need to change brace.

Want to make it back into a pistol, remove brace, but 10-" barrel back on.

Correct

 

[SomeSoldier]

Since I purpose built my 6.5 Grendel for hunting, I fixed a 5 round magazine.

It measures 26.5" with the brace removed so I can just put a vfg on it and call it an "other".

Sounds right to me.

 

[Acer-m14]

A firearm manufactured as a pistol, has to be intended to be fired with one hand, but there is no barrel length requirements, or OAL requirements.

then why is everyone shooting there Glock 19 or S&W with both fkin hands .. ?? LOL

this below should be illegal

 

[Acer-m14]

a rare photo of a actual pistol designed to be fired with one hand ..

 

[Vantrepes]

then why is everyone shooting there Glock 19 or S&W with both fkin hands .. ?? LOL

this below should be illegal

Don't try to bring logic into government.... it's not welcome lol

Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms - Gun Control Act Definition - Pistol | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Previous Page Download this Section Download the Guidebook Next Page Firearms Verification Gun Control Act Definitions Pistol 18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(29) and 27 CFR § 478.11 The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more...

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Firearms Verification​

Gun Control Act Definitions​

Pistol​

18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(29) and 27 CFR § 478.11

The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

• a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);
• and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

Yeah, lots of WTF when I first read that.