Russian Coup?

Xae289

Xae289

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Wow, this is big. Looks like Prigozhin and PMC Wagner have turned on Moscow. From Russian news sources,

For a short version, Evgeniy Prigozhin accused Russian forces of intentionally shelling his men. He and many of his men pulled chocks and are marching against Moscow with their target being the military leadership, including the Minister of Defense, Sergey Shoygu. It doesn't seem that he is directly targeting, or has spoken out directly against, Vladimir Putin.

Here is a Russian news story where Lt. Gen. Vladimir Alekseev is calling on troops not to follow Prigozhin, telling them that the Russian armed forces did not target them, and that only Putin has the power to appoint military leadership. That last bit is interesting. It seems as if Putin really isn't the target right now and that Prigozhin's acts are being presented by him as a mutiny against an incompetent and corrupt military hierarchy led by Shoygu and not a full-on coup d'etat targeting the presidency. At least for now. Who knows whether Prigozhin would ride his success to target Putin?

Sources: (They're Russian sources, but your browser should be able to translate them reasonably well)

m.5-tv.ru

Генерал-лейтенант Алексеев призвал ЧВК «Вагнер» не начинать гражданскую войну

Первый замначальника Главного управления Генштаба ВС РФ записал видеообращение к бойцам и командирам организации Евгения Пригожина.
m.5-tv.ru m.5-tv.ru

Another Russian source with lots of updates and a timeline.

m.tsargrad.tv

Пригожин против Шойгу - что происходит. Прямая трансляция

Основатель ЧВК "Вагнер" Евгений Пригожин заявил сегодня, что готов идти военным путём на Минобороны России, обвинив ведомство в атаке на базу "оркестрантов". В Минобороны в ответ назвали заявления Пригожина фейком, подчеркнув, что армия продолжает работу в зоне СВО. В режиме прямой трансляции...
m.tsargrad.tv m.tsargrad.tv

@Mosinitis , I can read and understand Russian decently, but don't stay up on reasonably reliable Russian news sources or what their biases may be. I assume you can probably read and understand it better and have a handle on media sources you find reliable. Are you up to date on this?
 
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holdover

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Nahhhhhhhh, something is very wrong here. This could possibly be a Russian trap intend to lure Ukraine into a bold, rushed attack

Im watching for a Russian pullback , the ultimate bait .
 
libertysnake

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Honestly, I wouldn't trust any of this crap. Who knows what the media is honest about anymore these days. Who knows if it's a trap.

Fuck, for all we know Putin is going to turn around and say they were paid by Ukraine and count it as an attack on Russian soil by Ukraine. It could just be an opportunity at propaganda. It's too early to tell.
 
Xae289

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holdover said:
Nahhhhhhhh, something is very wrong here. This could possibly be a Russian trap intend to lure Ukraine into a bold, rushed attack

Im watching for a Russian pullback , the ultimate bait .
Click to expand...
That is something I'm considering as well. It would be a brilliant trap to get Ukraine to play their best cards hastily, then come back with a powerful counter-attack.

My other suspicion is that the PMC is a mercenary company. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". At the end of the day, mercenaries have mercenary loyalties. Did Prigozhin sell out to the high bidder?

What I presented in my last post was the face-value situation. I definitely don't take this situation at face-value, but I don't know enough to have a real opinion on what the truth of the matter is.
 
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holdover

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Xae289 said:
That is something I'm considering as well. It would be a brilliant trap to get Ukraine to play their best cards hastily, then come back with a powerful counter-attack.

My other suspicion is that the PMC is a mercenary company. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". At the end of the day, mercenaries have mercenary loyalties. Did Prigozhin sell out to the high bidder?

What I presented in my last post was the face-value situation. I definitely don't take this situation at face-value, but I don't know enough to have a real opinion on what the truth of the matter is.
Click to expand...

Nobody really does, Ive heard :
claims that 2000 men were killed by Russian missile strikes
Wagner has taken Rostov.
wagner shot down a russian helicopter
internet is down in Moscow/ Russia

Ive have not seen or heard any confirmation of casualties
I ve hve not seen Russian military engaugeing or setting up roadblocks or defense
Ive not seen Wagner hit by missiles or artillery
I have not seen Russian politicians condemn or confirm this.

Then I have to consider that 2000 men were killed but the main target, Prigozhin , is OK.

I have to consider that Prigozhin could have been lured into a meeting and simply arrested rather than a missle strike on Wagner.

I have to consider that Prigozhin was lureing Ukraine into Bakhmut by claiming his men were out of ammo , (which I thought was pretty strange at the time)

I have to consider that Prigozhin , being a good military man , would understand that he is out numbered 50 to 1 or better. and has no supplies to carry out any kind of long term operation.

then I have to consider is it a ploy to feign weakness, to entice Ukraine into a hasty attack ? I dont know. Its classic Genghis Khan if it is .

I dont know for sure, this could be legit or an attempt by outside forces . I m just suspicious of what Im seeing and not seeing
 
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spat

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ArmedCorgi said:
Any chance we are behind this?
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I wouldn't put it past us to have fired the missiles and programmed them to fly around and attack the Wagners from behind.

I don't think that's what happened, but I wouldn't put it past us.

I can also see the Russian military convincing themselves the Wagners were going to stage an coup and tried to stage a pre-emptive attack too.

It's very hard to tell what's going on, and we probably won't know until it's old enough they're teaching it as history.
 
spat

spat

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Xae289 said:
That is something I'm considering as well. It would be a brilliant trap to get Ukraine to play their best cards hastily, then come back with a powerful counter-attack.

My other suspicion is that the PMC is a mercenary company. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". At the end of the day, mercenaries have mercenary loyalties. Did Prigozhin sell out to the high bidder?

What I presented in my last post was the face-value situation. I definitely don't take this situation at face-value, but I don't know enough to have a real opinion on what the truth of the matter is.
Click to expand...
I imagine it wouldn't take more than a few billion to pay them off.

minus 10% for the big guy of course.

Would be real interesting if Zelensky had done it out of funds he siphoned off, and he screwed the Biden plan to keep the fighting (and looting) going on indefinitely.
 
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