Temporary Restaining Order Issued For Concealed Carry Improvement Act (merged thread)

[spat]

Typically when I post I am not attempting to make it a matter of going after someone in a personal manner, so I was not singling you out. I endeavor to do deal with ideas, policy, viewpoints, theory, and so on, with pointed comments about the consequences taking certain stands or accepting certain views entail. That doesn't mean that I have never resorted to rhetorical fisticuffs on occasion on this forum, but it is typically not my intention to single out one person in some Alinky-esque manner.

That being said, you stated something along the lines of "here we all are waiting..." on the courts. Seems pretty clear that you meant, "Waiting on the courts to find out if we can exercise our RKBA."

And THAT is precisely the problem.

I don't know how long you've been posting here. I have consistently stated that giving up any fundamental Right for a permission slip to exercise a privilege leads to obvious consequences; such as, begging government for permission to do things WE ALREADY HAVE A RIGHT TO AS DETAILED IN OUR LAWS.

Everyone in this thread is crying over their beer that the State of NY has curtailed their RKBA, and yet just about every single person posing in this thread GOES RIGHT ALONG WITH THE PERMITTING SCHEME.

Now, years ago, after encouraging people to refuse to go along with the the UnSafe Act, when the "lifetime" permit to Keep and/or Bear a handgun in this state turned into a "5 year recert," I gave many of the same people in this thread some oddball advice.

Namely, to throw that permission slip away, and refuse to go along with the scheme any longer.

None of us in NY were around in 1911 when the scheme came into being. It was "the way things are" and what people in this state were stuck with because their ancestors had gone along with it. Most recognized that the process to get a premise or a conceal carry permit was onerous, unconstitutional, and so on. That being said, for those without a criminal record, it was a "lifetime" permit as long as people followed the rules, and "allowed for" quite a lot of "freedom" for self-defense.

Now lots of people on these forums stated that the 5 year recert was probably going to lead to worse consequences for NYers who wanted to own hand guns, so I was not some prophet or seer in pointing out what others were also seeing on how things were going. However, I was basically the ONLY person who recommended that NYers throw those damn permission slips in the trash and refuse to go along with the permitting schemes the evil bastards in Albany were going to keep coming up with to curtail our Rights for as long as we were willing to go along with them.

Now here we are years later, and everyone is bemoaning the fact that "we" are somehow still "waiting to get our rights back."

Though I do not post a lot, I am a long time participant going back to the old NY Firearms forum. I have consistently stated that NYers need to stop gambling in the casinos, so to speak, where the house (Albany) always wins when it comes to the RKBA. There are reasons I don't post a lot, and one of them is the fact that I typically don't like to say anything unless I think I actually have something worth saying.

Since you have intimated that "we" are waiting on our rights, I took your statement at face value; that you were including "me" in that "waiting" given that I have posted numerous times in this very thread, and have never made any bones about speaking my mind on this forum.

Well, I am NOT part of the "we" in this equation. I exercise my Rights as I see fit, just as I speak my mind.

There are 3-4 million freaking hand gun permit holders in this freaking state, for God's sake! If you folks would simply STOP PLAYING THE GAME AND GET OFF THE MERRY GO ROUND, the retards running this "state" wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind!

Instead, NYers keep lining up for their permission slips, and keep reaching into their wallets, to appease people in Albany who will never be appeased until everyone in this state are DISARMED.

The one bright light after UnSafe was the fact that most people in NY refused to register their rifles. Of course, most complied by modifying them to get around the registration scheme, so there still was compliance even if almost everything people had was "readily convertible" to their pre-UnSafe status.

The boo hoo hoo from the crybabies regarding the new permitting schemes is utterly pathetic. Everyone in NY who rails about Infringement goes right along with it, so too bad!

Well, I refuse to ask for permission to exercise my Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I'm sorry the rest of you keep complying.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: when Whorecul puts out a new mandate that men in this state will have to service her "needs" and "appetites" in order to get a permission slip, there are lots of NY "men" that will line right up for that, rubbers and KY jelly in hand.

We are at the point where you either sit back and wait for the courts, or you hoist the Jolly Roger and start slitting throats.

Most of us are not ready for the second stage of that. Are you ?

 

[JunkBoxFull]

We are at the point where you either sit back and wait for the courts, or you hoist the Jolly Roger and start slitting throats.

Most of us are not ready for the second stage of that. Are you ?

Spat, he ain`t gonna do anything more than the rest of us are. Some people are only brave behind the screen. Its easy to type a rant, next thing is, is to back it up. He couldn`t answer anybody`s questions when called out. I take what he said as just ranting, blowing off steam.

I whine an complain just as much as the next guy about all the tyrannical BS, but i would still prefer waiting for the courts to bring these tyrants down. Yeah, its gonna be awhile. We`ve got a ton of catching up to do. They`ve had 200 year head start on us. It ain`t gonna get fixed overnight.

Are we all tired of this sh!t, Hell yeah, we ALL are. Is it go time yet, no, its not. Some would prefer it to be, but those who wish that, have never been in a real battle. Because if they were, they would try NOT to want bad sh!t to happen. Who knows, that day may come. It`s just not, today, for me.

 

[CaliberPlus]

Further, these rants divide. Kind of like the guys that cannot see that banning or "regulating" on looks of a firearm, is somehow ok.

I also hear the attacks on FFL's, "just don't comply" goes the saying, Well, there goes the license. If you don't think someone is there just waiting to snitch, well, I would disagree. Personally, we got flipped in for not playing Gestapo during the mask time. I refused to wear one. I HATED having customers wear a mask, like the apparent chick that came in with mask, dark glasses and a hat. (Nothing purchased.)

Let me clarify, most gun owners that I have met, and I have met a few, seem to be decent people. Being decent people and wanting to do the right thing did not used to be a bad thing. Like so much in this upside down world, it can now be viewed as a bad thing. Kind of like a guy can put a dress and find high heels and claim to be a chick.

 

[Saltwater60]

SCOTUS Smackdown!! 2nd Circuit Expedites 5 Gun Control Challenges To Hearings On The Same Day! 3/20/2023​

Cool…. We can lose everything in one fell swoop. I can’t see this going our way but I’ve been wrong before…. Time will tell.
How long do you guys think it will take to get a ruling? It’s now 5 cases so it will be a few weeks in to court and a few weeks for them to decide so I’m thinking around June?

 

[Saltwater60]

Further, these rants divide. Kind of like the guys that cannot see that banning or "regulating" on looks of a firearm, is somehow ok.

I also hear the attacks on FFL's, "just don't comply" goes the saying, Well, there goes the license. If you don't think someone is there just waiting to snitch, well, I would disagree. Personally, we got flipped in for not playing Gestapo during the mask time. I refused to wear one. I HATED having customers wear a mask, like the apparent chick that came in with mask, dark glasses and a hat. (Nothing purchased.)

Let me clarify, most gun owners that I have met, and I have met a few, seem to be decent people. Being decent people and wanting to do the right thing did not used to be a bad thing. Like so much in this upside down world, it can now be viewed as a bad thing. Kind of like a guy can put a dress and find high heels and claim to be a chick.

No doubt about it. I had a friend who told me she was helping a friend out since his dad died and lived in NY and the son lived in California. He had pistols and she was going to keep them until after probate and then hand them into an FFL to be sent to the son in California. I said no go and don’t do it because you’ll be arrested. An ffl will not do that and will call the police because they are going to think it’s a sting operation and you have no right to have those guns in your Poseidon and it’s illegal.
She listened and turn them into the local police precinct to be properly handed over to an FFL and shipped to California. Now would it be great to just take them and mail them to the kid in California yeah, but it’s risky. Apparently some on here would do it though.

 

[byron]

No doubt about it. I had a friend who told me she was helping a friend out since his dad died and lived in NY and the son lived in California. He had pistols and she was going to keep them until after probate and then hand them into an FFL to be sent to the son in California. I said no go and don’t do it because you’ll be arrested. An ffl will not do that and will call the police because they are going to think it’s a sting operation and you have no right to have those guns in your Poseidon and it’s illegal.
She listened and turn them into the local police precinct to be properly handed over to an FFL and shipped to California. Now would it be great to just take them and mail them to the kid in California yeah, but it’s risky. Apparently some on here would do it though.

there is an exception in the case of a death

when a licensed gun owner dies, the person in charge of the decedent’s personal property would technically be in illegal possession of the decedent’s gun and guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree. N.Y. Penal Law § 265.01 (Consol. 2016). However, the law provides an exemption from criminal liability for an executor or administrator or any other lawful possessor of a decedent’s firearm if, within fifteen days of the death of the gun owner, the person in possession of a decedent’s gun either i) lawfully disposes of the gun; or ii) turns the gun over to the police. N.Y. Penal Law § 265.20(a)(1)(f) (Consol. 2014). Failure to do so can result in a charge of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree, a class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail or three years of probation, and a $1,000 fine. N.Y. Penal Law § 265.01 (Consol. 2016); N.Y. Penal Law § 70.15 (Consol. 2016); N.Y. Penal Law § 80.05 (Consol. 2017).

 

[Saltwater60]

there is an exception in the case of a death

when a licensed gun owner dies, the person in charge of the decedent’s personal property would technically be in illegal possession of the decedent’s gun and guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree. N.Y. Penal Law § 265.01 (Consol. 2016). However, the law provides an exemption from criminal liability for an executor or administrator or any other lawful possessor of a decedent’s firearm if, within fifteen days of the death of the gun owner, the person in possession of a decedent’s gun either i) lawfully disposes of the gun; or ii) turns the gun over to the police. N.Y. Penal Law § 265.20(a)(1)(f) (Consol. 2014). Failure to do so can result in a charge of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree, a class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail or three years of probation, and a $1,000 fine. N.Y. Penal Law § 265.01 (Consol. 2016); N.Y. Penal Law § 70.15 (Consol. 2016); N.Y. Penal Law § 80.05 (Consol. 2017).

He died months ago and she was legally none of those things. She was just a friend of the family and she had no legal right to have them. Anyway the estate would not be settled in 15 days so she would have kept them for months and months over that, probably closer to one year.

 

[Glock_USA]

Not a big fan of this guy but this is short and right to the point. Good info.

 

[ManualF150]

I guess we shall see what happens after 3/20/2023... I actually thought it was 3x it got marked as unconstitutional, but he's right, it's 5x! I actually lost count... hopefully they will just do the right thing.

But... I'm not counting on anything.

Why?

Because 3 days later Heil Hochul and her cunting constituents will make another law/act in direct defiance to the decision yet again. Round and round we go, we don't stop.

 

[Glock_USA]

I guess we shall see what happens after 3/20/2023... I actually thought it was 3x it got marked as unconstitutional, but he's right, it's 5x! I actually lost count... hopefully they will just do the right thing.

But... I'm not counting on anything.

Why?

Because 3 days later Heil Hochul and her cunting constituents will make another law/act in direct defiance to the decision yet again. Round and round we go, we don't stop.

If you want the merry go round to stop then get off of the ride.

 

[Saltwater60]

Now it’s 6 cases and not 5? It’s so hard to keep track of.

 

[ManualF150]

Now it’s 6 cases and not 5? It’s so hard to keep track of.

That was the other number I had to double check.

As usual, it's nothing but a mess.

 

[maverick52]

Ammo is their next target. Limiting ammo purchases, lead free, etc.

 

[ManualF150]

Ammo is their next target. Limiting ammo purchases, lead free, etc.

They are already limiting ammo by using mind games....

How about the folks on here that refuse to give up their information and go to another free state to buy ammo?

Like for me for example, it's not the fact that they want the information, I just don't want to "comply" if I don't have to, especially if I have other options. Right now I reload, but I do like to get some factory made ammo, especially for once used casings to keep in rotation. So in order for me to buy more ammo, in my travels out of state, I'll just stop by a gun shop and buy what I need.

All this has negative implications on sales for these stores. Which is exactly what the left wants.

 

[Glock_USA]

Now it’s 6 cases and not 5? It’s so hard to keep track of.

This can either go good or bad very quickly. Watch them wipe out all 6 cases at once with one decision. I don't think that will happen but it could.

 

[Vinson57]

This can either go good or bad very quickly. Watch them wipe out all 6 cases at once with one decision. I don't think that will happen but it could.

Justice Thomas and Alito hinted to them to try it and find out? They want this court to put their shit in a finding, written and then it will be handled once and for all.

As some say infringed means what it means but its infringed anyways, the Supreme Court could decide, that states never get to infringed as its not a state right. State rights are things not mentioned in the constitution. The 2A is and means, state must end gun control. 10th amendment is a two way street to sort out what is what.

 

[Truebeliever]

Yep. Just waiting for others to come along and tell me how it's actually a good thing and the lower courts will get their act together next time because they've been put on warning and will get bitch slapped if they don't!!

This is how the court system works. The 2nd is given a chance to get in line . It’s a chain of command type of thing .

 

[Glock_USA]

This is how the court system works. The 2nd is given a chance to get in line . It’s a chain of command type of thing .

Sure. We know this. It's been discussed by the YouTube types who are in tune with this. We've all watched the video explanations that you have, so you're not telling us anything new. My point is they've had their chances already. How many more will they get?

 

[Truebeliever]

Sure. We know this. It's been discussed by the YouTube types who are in tune with this. We've all watched the video explanations that you have, so you're not telling us anything new. My point is they've had their chances already. How many more will they get?

Do you really want to know? This hearing is just over allowing the law to remain in effect UNTIL the appeal is heard. So , no matter the decision, it’s going to go up for at least one more time no matter what they decide unless they just make a ruling on the appeal itself -which is doubtful.

 

[Glock_USA]

Do you really want to know? This hearing is just over allowing the law to remain in effect UNTIL the appeal is heard. So , no matter the decision, it’s going to go up for at least one more time no matter what they decide unless they just make a ruling on the appeal itself -which is doubtful.

Well kind of. The injunction or restraining orders were granted initially because the district courts (who are the courts that will decide the cases) agreed that the plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits of their cases. They didn't just issue their rulings haphazardly in expectation of reversing their decision when they make their final ruling. So the question really is how many chances will the 2nd circuit get to meddle in these cases to appease the tyrannical officials in NY? SCOTUS allowing it to happen continuously and repeatedly is a joke.

If NY passed a law tonight that blacks aren't allowed to vote or jews weren't allowed to go to temple how long would the cases be put off? How many stays? Would it be allowed to be enforceable in the meantime by tyrant scum bag cops who think the Bill Of Rights applies to them differently because they sat through an "academy" for a few weeks or months? Would jews have to sneak around to worship in secret until the courts got around to hear their case while they risk arrest in the meantime? How is this any different that those scenarios?

 

[Cooolone]

I don't understand the confusion by so many CITIZENS of this great country!

My RIGHTS aren't bestowed, and therefore cannot be DENIED! The 2nd ESPECIALLY which is the only RIGHT with explicit instructions provided, SHALL NOT BE INGRINGED!

Courts, Judges, and Empty Suit Governors included, do not decide what my RIGHTS are. This is the original problem with even writing them down, as some of the founders had feared!

I'll exercise my RIGHT, as I see fit, in the pursuit of happiness as decreed in that famous document. I will enjoy those RIGHTS absent fear of the Big Bad Wolf that never comes, but I will never walk undefended, especially in today's upside down world where the need and necessity for self preservation is displayed daily, let alone in NY State! I'm not going to worry about the toothless SCOTUS, or the LEFTIST Bent Administration that wants to impose it's executive will bypassing the legislative and judicial branches of our Gov't that enact and interpret laws! RIGHTS, exceed those branches of Gov't and sit atop the mantle of the experiment in which we are all voluntary participants.

Good luck to those always looking over their shoulder in fear of the heavy hand of Gov't, or the Bad Guy because they're willing to submit and subject themselves to unconstitutional laws enacted with maleficence towards those who would exercise their RIGHTS... SHALL NOT BE INGRINGED is written and signed by representatives from every State. Funny thing is NY was the LAST STATE to sign the Constitution... lol, kinda ironic, no? Again... Those RIGHTS are mine, assigned at birth, not by Gov't, only recognized by Gov't. That's it! Simple truth, regardless of how complicated they wish to make it.

Best Regards!

And oh...

FUCK NY!!!
lol

 

[Glock_USA]

I don't understand the confusion by so many CITIZENS of this great country!

My RIGHTS aren't bestowed, and therefore cannot be DENIED! The 2nd ESPECIALLY which is the only RIGHT with explicit instructions provided, SHALL NOT BE INGRINGED!

Courts, Judges, and Empty Suit Governors included, do not decide what my RIGHTS are. This is the original problem with even writing them down, as some of the founders had feared!

I'll exercise my RIGHT, as I see fit, in the pursuit of happiness as decreed in that famous document. I will enjoy those RIGHTS absent fear of the Big Bad Wolf that never comes, but I will never walk undefended, especially in today's upside down world where the need and necessity for self preservation is displayed daily, let alone in NY State! I'm not going to worry about the toothless SCOTUS, or the LEFTIST Bent Administration that wants to impose it's executive will bypassing the legislative and judicial branches of our Gov't that enact and interpret laws! RIGHTS, exceed those branches of Gov't and sit atop the mantle of the experiment in which we are all voluntary participants.

Good luck to those always looking over their shoulder in fear of the heavy hand of Gov't, or the Bad Guy because they're willing to submit and subject themselves to unconstitutional laws enacted with maleficence towards those who would exercise their RIGHTS... SHALL NOT BE INGRINGED is written and signed by representatives from every State. Funny thing is NY was the LAST STATE to sign the Constitution... lol, kinda ironic, no? Again... Those RIGHTS are mine, assigned at birth, not by Gov't, only recognized by Gov't. That's it! Simple truth, regardless of how complicated they wish to make it.

Best Regards!

And oh...

FUCK NY!!!
lol

Well said. I like your argument but the judge won't. So it's really a matter of the risk you wish to take. That will vary for each person. In the end I believe we will be on the right side of history and the cops who enforce this and the officials who passed this will be on the wrong side of history. How much will be have to endure and how long will that take? Nobody knows.

 

[Truebeliever]

Well kind of. The injunction or restraining orders were granted initially because the district courts (who are the courts that will decide the cases) agreed that the plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits of their cases. They didn't just issue their rulings haphazardly in expectation of reversing their decision when they make their final ruling. So the question really is how many chances will the 2nd circuit get to meddle in these cases to appease the tyrannical officials in NY? SCOTUS allowing it to happen continuously and repeatedly is a joke.

If NY passed a law tonight that blacks aren't allowed to vote or jews weren't allowed to go to temple how long would the cases be put off? How many stays? Would it be allowed to be enforceable in the meantime by tyrant scum bag cops who think the Bill Of Rights applies to them differently because they sat through an "academy" for a few weeks or months? Would jews have to sneak around to worship in secret until the courts got around to hear their case while they risk arrest in the meantime? How is this any different that those scenarios?

Okay, in a SCOTUS court environment that they aren’t watching the case, the appeals court could keep it up for years by finding some small thing in the case and send it back down for the trial court to explore the new issue. They can’t do it in this case. They get three shots at the Apple in this one. They will have a hearing on the stay until the appeals case is heard, then the actual appeal then an En Blanc panel when it’s the whole appeals court rather than a three judge panel.

 

[Glock_USA]

Okay, in a SCOTUS court environment that they aren’t watching the case, the appeals court could keep it up for years by finding some small thing in the case and send it back down for the trial court to explore the new issue. They can’t do it in this case. They get three shots at the Apple in this one. They will have a hearing on the stay until the appeals case is heard, then the actual appeal then an En Blanc panel when it’s the whole appeals court rather than a three judge panel.

Would SCOTUS have denied the emergency request if the jews were legally prohibited from attending temple to give the 2nd another chance in 3 months to get it right or would emergency relief be granted immediately?

 

[GlockModel29]

Would SCOTUS have denied the emergency request if the jews were legally prohibited from attending temple to give the 2nd another chance in 3 months to get it right or would emergency relief be granted immediately?

You are making a great point and I agree with you 1000%....

 

[Truebeliever]

Would SCOTUS have denied the emergency request if the jews were legally prohibited from attending temple to give the 2nd another chance in 3 months to get it right or would emergency relief be granted immediately?

Go look it up. Look at the covid restrictions and how long that took

COVID and Religion at SCOTUS

www.rpc.senate.gov

it’s how the court works.

 

[maverick52]

Do you really want to know? This hearing is just over allowing the law to remain in effect UNTIL the appeal is heard. So , no matter the decision, it’s going to go up for at least one more time no matter what they decide unless they just make a ruling on the appeal itself -which is doubtful.

I believe this is the hearing for the appeal of the preliminary injunction. The stay was issued as an emergency stay. Then the hearing was expedited to 3-20. All of these cases are being combined and ruled on either to maintain the emergency stay (in which the second circuit would have to draft a thorough decision explaining why) or vacate the stay and allow the district courts decisions to stand. Then we move on to the real case(s) which I assume will all be in our favor. When those cases are decided there will be yet another appeal by NYS. What I am not clear on is, is whether NYS can appeal to the second circuit en banc if we win on 3-20 or if we can appeal en banc. Or we go directly to SCOTUS

 

[Saltwater60]

Ammo is their next target. Limiting ammo purchases, lead free, etc.

Already on it.

 

[Saltwater60]

This can either go good or bad very quickly. Watch them wipe out all 6 cases at once with one decision. I don't think that will happen but it could.

If that does that’s fine as long as the Supreme Court takes them all up if things don’t go they way they should.

 

[Saltwater60]

Well said. I like your argument but the judge won't. So it's really a matter of the risk you wish to take. That will vary for each person. In the end I believe we will be on the right side of history and the cops who enforce this and the officials who passed this will be on the wrong side of history. How much will be have to endure and how long will that take? Nobody knows.

I disagree with you on the history thing. I don’t think most Americans will support what we’re going for with the Bruen decision. Should that matter legally? No. I’m sure most or all Americans do not support paying taxes but you’ll still get convicted for not paying your taxes. I don’t think too many Americans will support expanding full autos, silencers, and eliminating mag limits, but I could be wrong. I think this can be attributed to Hollywood bullshit and liberal lies but those things influence people.