US Catholic Bishops to Vote on Denying Biden Communion

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Why does any topic that has to do with an element of religion immediately go and jump the shark and end up going to theoretical extremes which have nothing to do with the actual topic of the threads original post.

 

[GOPerfect]

What has been said has been said again, and will be said again, in many ways, in many languages, but still, the search continues, and will continue.
Robin

That's some deep shit right there....

 

[FS1040]

Why does any topic that has to do with an element of religion immediately go and jump the shark and end up going to theoretical extremes which have nothing to do with the actual topic of the threads original post.

Disagreements don’t equate to animosity. I’d invite @Darth to shoot with me anytime he’s in my area.

 

[spat]

Atheism does not say "God didn't do it."

Atheism is a lack of belief in a God or Gods. It doesn't say anything of the beginning of the universe.

How are you determining there are no other possibilities?

I am well aware of your quirky ideas about the definitions of atheism and agnosticism.

I prefer to use the more widely understood notions.

Atheism is the belief in the absence of a god.

Agnosticism is the lack of a belief either way.

The notion underpinning your definitions, that you can believe something without thinking that you know it, is absurd and not worth considering.

As for why I think those are the only possibilities, I am done discussing your other absurd concept, that there is another possibility besides a universe with a beginning or one without a beginning.

If you can describe such a possibility I would discuss it, but I'm not playing your current game any longer where you demand proof for the most obvious conclusions, yet refuse to claim they are incorrect.

 

[spat]

That’s not evolution. That’s called selective breeding. There is an outside agent acting upon those horses. Evolution says chance makes it happen. Impossible.

The horses on the Outer Banks have been left alone. Guess what—they are still horses. Where’s evolution making them faster and faster?

You see a building and know an architect designed it. You wear shoes and know they were assembled by child labor in China. In both cases, you weren’t there, but you know soneone made it.

The theory of evolution breaks every law of physics and nature and we are to believe the impossible? It makes zero sense

Evolution says nothing about the cause of the selective breeding.

In Darwin's original observations they were environmental factors, certainly not random chance.

It seems obvious that anything that causes taller giraffes, or faster cheetahs or whatever to be more successful will lead to giraffes getting taller or cheetahs getting faster. Whether that something is a breeder, or just fewer of them dying from starvation before they can reproduce, it's still evolution.

In fact, if it was god that decided to cause the taller giraffes to breed more successfully, then *god* would be directing the evolution.

As for the horses on the outer banks, why would evolution make them faster ? Evolution will make them better at living on the outer banks. It's unlikely "faster" is the best way to do that.

I bet if you look, you *will* find evolutionary changes that have occurred to help them adapt.

 

[Darth]

The first step in suppressing the truth — Romans 1 is clear on this— is eliminating God from your conscience and denying His existence. It’s not that God doesn’t exist, it’s that you don’t want Him to exist. Why?

He demands no other gods before Him. You want to do what you want. You are the master of your own destiny. You want to be like god yourself. It’s the same lie believed by Adam and Eve in the garden 7,000 or so years ago. (Maybe 10,000 if you don’t believe in a young earth.)

The heavens declare the glory of God and you say that’s not proof enough? What do you need, a sign?

He gave you a sign when He rose from the grave. Eyewitnesses testified to it. They died for it. You say you want more proof. How much is enough?

You think we have evolved? Nope, we are the same as we’ve always been—sinners in need of a savior.

You have not answered the question.

Why should we belive what the Bible says?

You can't use it as a source without a reason to belive it is true.

 

[Darth]

View attachment 114969

Well, Atheism isn't a belief, so my earlier point still stands

 

[Darth]

I am well aware of your quirky ideas about the definitions of atheism and agnosticism.

I prefer to use the more widely understood notions.

Atheism is the belief in the absence of a god.

Agnosticism is the lack of a belief either way.

The notion underpinning your definitions, that you can believe something without thinking that you know it, is absurd and not worth considering.

As for why I think those are the only possibilities, I am done discussing your other absurd concept, that there is another possibility besides a universe with a beginning or one without a beginning.

If you can describe such a possibility I would discuss it, but I'm not playing your current game any longer where you demand proof for the most obvious conclusions, yet refuse to claim they are incorrect.

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief in a God or Gods.

You've done this intellectualy dishonest sideshow before, and it's no more true now than it was before.

 

[FS1040]

Well, Atheism isn't a belief, so my earlier point still stands

Riiiiight. You just keep believing that.

 

[meketrefe]

You guys are making it too complicated to explain religion with math. It can be simply explained with one bit binary method.
0=you dont have faith.
1=you do.

 

[Darth]

That’s not evolution. That’s called selective breeding. There is an outside agent acting upon those horses. Evolution says chance makes it happen. Impossible.

The horses on the Outer Banks have been left alone. Guess what—they are still horses. Where’s evolution making them faster and faster?

You see a building and know an architect designed it. You wear shoes and know they were assembled by child labor in China. In both cases, you weren’t there, but you know soneone made it.

The theory of evolution breaks every law of physics and nature and we are to believe the impossible? It makes zero sense

Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with "chance."

Again, the building and shoes thing. How do we know it was designed and created? Because we can compare them with the natural world, which of course was not.

Evolution doesn't even make claims on the laws of physics, so how can it violate any?

 

[Darth]

Riiiiight. You just keep believing that.

No need, as I can demonstrate it to be true.

Can you provide any evidence for any God?

 

[meketrefe]

We are i diapers in terms of rationalizing what is around us. So take some time to digest what is known.

 

[Darth]

You guys are making it too complicated to explain religion with math. It can be simply explained with one bit binary method.
0=you dont have faith.
1=you do.

I agree some people feel they have faith. Faith is the reason people give when they don't have a good reason to belive something.

 

[spat]

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief in a God or Gods.

You've done this intellectualy dishonest sideshow before, and it's no more true now than it was before.

Agnosticism is a lack of belief (look at greek roots of the word, it means not knowing).

Atheism is the belief in the lack of a god. Look at the roots of that one. It literally means no god.

You can pretend they are flipped if you want, but it's intellectually dishonest to purposely misuse words in a discussion.

 

[Darth]

Agnosticism is a lack of belief (look at greek roots of the word, it means not knowing).

Atheism is the belief in the lack of a god. Look at the roots of that one. It literally means no god.

You can pretend they are flipped if you want, but it's intellectually dishonest to purposely misuse words in a discussion.

Yeah, they must have got those dictionary makers to belive the lie too.

 

[meketrefe]

I agree some people feel they have faith. Faith is the reason people give when they don't have a good reason to belive something.

Faith is a very primitive way to wrap up all the things we do not understand. It doeant have to be academic ignorance but all things, including mortality or hope in the face of the impossible.
And lets be realistic, the average joe is not going to engage in philosophy or quantum mechanics.

 

[Darth]

Faith is a very primitive way to wrap up all the things we do not understand. It doeant have to be academic ignorance but all things, including mortality.
And lets be realistic, the average joe is not going to engage in philosophy or quantum mechanics.

They probably aren't.

But as stated faith is the reason people give when they don't have a good reason to belive something.

 

[meketrefe]

They probably aren't.

But as stated faith is the reason people give when they don't have a good reason to belive something.

You cannot know that because I am convinced inside a human brain there are not two versions of faith or God that are the same or at the same level.
I think atheists play a very important role in science and philosophy as they help move the bar up of what is known and allowing people to expand.
It is obviosus religion institutions are not up to date but this doesnt mean that giving spirituality to the unknown through faith has to jump oit the window.

 

[Darth]

You cannot know that because I am convinced inside a human brain there are not two versions of faith or God that are the same or at the same level.
I think atheists play a very important role in science and philosophy as they help move the bar up of what is known and allowing people to expand.
It is obviosus religion institutions are not up to date but this doesnt mean that giving spirituality to the unknown through faith has to jump oit the window.

Sure. It only does if you want to keep the scientific process going.

You can't say "all the evidence points this way, but I still think unicorns did it, and if you don't think that you are a bigot"

 

[GOPerfect]

Faith... complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

This is pretty simple to understand.

This Faith thing, why do so many think their level of faith, what they have faith in is better and more important than that of others?

Where does this arrogance and ignorance come from?

Some of the posts in this thread do exactly that.

This guy can't go to my heaven, I think that might have been the best. Does it really matter what faith one has? Faith in this god or that God? Faith that there is no god, funny the judgemental attitude.

 

[Criticalt]

When Christianity was created there were already other religions that had existed for centuries.
Christianity wasn't needed. It was just one more "start-up", created as a way of controlling the masses (ie: giving one or a few power over others), and survived not only by threatening people with some unnamed, vague "eternal damnation", but by incorporating existing religious practices, holidays, and rituals. Kind of like hostile corporate takeovers.
It is far easier to convert people if you can say "see, we have the same rituals, just with different names". It lends a level of authenticity, and hides the fact that you are attempting to subvert or steal another religion's members.
This budding religion also quelled other pre-existing religions by murdering their members, breeding their women, and otherwise "running roughshod over the Earth".




You mean like Methodist, Catholic, Protestant, etc.?
They may not have been as violent, but they were, at the start "cults" that have managed to use the original religion's tactics to survive and thrive.

Of course there were other religions but there were people still looking for more. So people got together and created another religion. Im pretty sure I mentioned that previously.
And of course im talking about modern day. When all the major religions were created, people were far more superstitious and looking for guidance.
My point was that TODAY it would be much harder to create a world wide major religion. People are far less superstitious and much more cynical and far more suspicious and less likely to follow religious dogma......political digma maybe but not religious.
Some of the modern day "cult" religions (Branch Dividians, Jim Jones.....)are not too different than Christianity but could never become world religions with 1 billion followers.
However, social justice and woke followers are getting close to a new religion.

 

[spat]

Yeah, they must have got those dictionary makers to belive the lie too.

Yea, they all totally agree with you...

What’s The Difference Between Atheism And Agnosticism?

Atheism and Agnosticism get mixed up a lot when the question of divine existence comes up. How familiar are you with the difference between them, pray tell?

www.dictionary.com

"There is a key distinction. An atheist doesn’t believe in a god or divine being. The word originates with the Greek atheos, which is built from the roots a- (“without”) and theos (“a god”). Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no god.

However, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine. Agnostics assert that it’s impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist."

 

[Robin]

No bullets is not a belief, it is a lack of ammo.
Prov. 4
Robin

 

[Darth]

Yea, they all totally agree with you...

What’s The Difference Between Atheism And Agnosticism?

Atheism and Agnosticism get mixed up a lot when the question of divine existence comes up. How familiar are you with the difference between them, pray tell?

www.dictionary.com

"There is a key distinction. An atheist doesn’t believe in a god or divine being. The word originates with the Greek atheos, which is built from the roots a- (“without”) and theos (“a god”). Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no god.

However, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine. Agnostics assert that it’s impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist."

atheism noun
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athe·ism | \ ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm \
Definition of atheism
1a: a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
b: a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
2archaic : godlessness especially in conduct : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS

agnostic noun
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ag·nos·tic | \ ag-ˈnä-stik , əg- \
Definition of agnostic (Entry 1 of 2)
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

Now there is no question. Theism deals with belief. Gnostisism deals with knowledge. No more questions.

Now enough with this sideshow. Of the 4 possibilities one can be, I'm an agnostic atheist.

 

[Robin]

Well, yer somth'n!
Robin

 

[spat]

atheism noun
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athe·ism | \ ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm \
Definition of atheism
1a: a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
b: a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
2archaic : godlessness especially in conduct : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS

agnostic noun
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ag·nos·tic | \ ag-ˈnä-stik , əg- \
Definition of agnostic (Entry 1 of 2)
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

Now there is no question. Theism deals with belief. Gnostisism deals with knowledge. No more questions.

Now enough with this sideshow. Of the 4 possibilities one can be, I'm an agnostic atheist.

You claim to be agnostic, but you seem to be a lot like the vegan enjoying the plate of ribs I mentioned in the other thread.

You ridicule theistic religious belief constantly. That hardly comports with your claim that you believe it's possible they might be right.

You also keep insisting that belief and knowledge are different. In the context of religion they are not.

 

[Darth]

You claim to be agnostic, but you seem to be a lot like the vegan enjoying the plate of ribs I mentioned in the other thread.

You ridicule theistic religious belief constantly. That hardly comports with your claim that you believe it's possible they might be right.

You also keep insisting that belief and knowledge are different. In the context of religion they are not.

I don't "claim to be agnostic." That is my position on the Gnostisism issue.

I ridicule people that belive in nonsensical fantasy that they wish to affect my life with. If you told me you believed in leprechauns I would ridicule you too when you propose that we force school kids to lean from the doctrine of lucky charms. They may exist however. It wouldn't be on me to prove they do not. It would be on those that claim they do to prove it.

I don't "insist" anything. Knowledge is a subset of belief.

 

[spat]

I don't "claim to be agnostic." That is my position on the Gnostisism issue.

I ridicule people that belive in nonsensical fantasy that they wish to affect my life with. If you told me you believed in leprechauns I would ridicule you too when you propose that we force school kids to lean from the doctrine of lucky charms. They may exist however. It wouldn't be on me to prove they do not. It would be on those that claim they do to prove it.

I don't "insist" anything. Knowledge is a subset of belief.

And there you go, lumping the major religions of the world in with fairy tales.

Your smug self assurance that you are right and several billion other people are wrong, and your insistence on shouting it at every opportunity demonstrates my point.

I rest my case.

 

[Darth]

And there you go, lumping the major religions of the world in with fairy tales.

Your smug self assurance that you are right and several billion other people are wrong, and your insistence on shouting it at every opportunity demonstrates my point.

I rest my case.

Did you just flip the chessboard and claim victory?

Anyway, I lump them with fairy tales as they have done nothing to demonstrate they are anything but.

Your appeal to majority falls flat too when you realize the the vast majority of people are nearly atheist themselves, but atheists just take it one God farther.

Do you know many Christians that belive in the divinity of Vishnu?