Walmart obtaining your documents illegally????

[Marine Cpl]

Part of being in compliance is not to have documents in your possession other than those that are necessary. I've been trained on it for years, not reading bullet points on the first page I see. I've even been sent to school for it and have a huge binder on it somewhere.

Is your company obligated to follow the rules due to being a financial institution or creditor as defined in the law? If so then yes. If another company is not obligated to follow the rules than it does not apply.

Employment in any or most companies require a copy of your social security card. Not all of them are required to abide by the rule.

 

[Marine Cpl]

1. How do my obligations under other laws affect the implementation of my Identity Theft Prevention Program?
   Your Program under the Red Flags Rule should be consistent with other relevant legal, professional, and ethical obligations. This would include laws relating to the provision of medical treatment or the provision and termination of utility services. Indeed, the Rule anticipates the need to accommodate obligations like these by requiring that a Program include only "reasonable" policies and procedures, and by ensuring that each group has the flexibility to tailor a Program to the nature of its business.

It's pretty easy to see copies of SS cards when they are not required are not "reasonable"

Again. Those rules only apply to who they apply to.

 

[Chevusa]

Is your company obligated to follow the rules due to being a financial institution or creditor as defined in the law? If so then yes. If another company is not obligated to follow the rules than it does not apply.

Employment in any or most companies require a copy of your social security card. Not all of them are required to abide by the rule.

The rule applies to Walmart as they are a creditor. Employment requirements are set at the federal level by the I9. In that case it is not improper. However that has nothing to do with a customer in your store. Red Flag Rules protect consumers, not employees.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The rule applies to Walmart as they are a creditor. Employment requirements are set at the federal level by the I9. In that case it is not improper. However that has nothing to do with a customer in your store. Red Flag Rules protect consumers, not employees.

So then what is the problem? They have a program in place to protect your identity as per the law. They see it as reasonable to obtain your social security card to determine your citizenship since drivers licenses no longer determine citizenship so that they don’t make a sale to a non citizen and go to jail for it.

If you do not like it, you don’t have to shop there. Go to Joe’s Sporting Goods instead. No one of forcing you to provide your SS card at Walmart to buy a gun.

 

[Chevusa]

So then what is the problem? They have a program in place to protect your identity as per the law. They see it as reasonable to obtain your social security card to determine your citizenship since drivers licenses no longer determine citizenship so that they don’t make a sale to a non citizen and go to jail for it.

If you do not like it, you don’t have to shop there. Go to Joe’s Sporting Goods instead. No one of forcing you to provide your SS card at Walmart to buy a gun.

It is improper to collect documents that are not needed to complete the process. The 4473 outlines the requirements and SS# and especially making a copy of someones SS card are not a part of it. So while it is great that they have a process to safeguard information (I hope they actually are) it should not be collected or retained by them in the first place.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It is improper to collect documents that are not needed to complete the process. The 4473 outlines the requirements and SS# and especially making a copy of someones SS card are not a part of it. So while it is great that they have a process to safeguard information (I hope they actually are) it should not be collected or retained by them in the first place.

Improper to you. Not to them. They want to be absolutely sure that you are a citizen.

 

[Chevusa]

Improper to you. Not to them. They want to be absolutely sure that you are a citizen.

The ATF sets the requirements for the sale. Therefore it is not required and improper. You are only allowed to collect what is needed.

 

[byron]

is Walmart a creditor they go thru capital one for Walmart branded credit cards? SS cards are not proof of citizenship and you do not have to be a citizen to buy a gun or ammo green card holders can and also non immigrant with a state issued hunting Li.

 

[Chevusa]

is Walmart a creditor they go thru capital one for Walmart branded credit cards?

It doesn’t matter. They offer the service. Under the definition the business making the sale is also a creditor. They take the information therefore they are covered under the Rule.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Only citizens and permanent residents who are issued a SS card can buy firearms.

There are some exemptions though. A foreigner with a valid hunting license can.

An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit, admitted for lawful hunting or sporting purposes, certain official representatives of a foreign government, or a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.

 

[Chicken Shoot]

Red Flag Laws are a concern here but we've seen both sides of the argument. Anyways, I called the ATF earlier today and they are going to look into it because although Walmart can ask to SEE some other form of ID, they are not to be copying or scanning SS cards or birth certificates and keeping them for the purpose of purchasing a gun. The only documents to be copied and held on the property are driver's licenses, govt issued photo ID, govt issued documents proving CURRENT address and pistol permits where applicable. They are also concerned with the reason for this "policy" because your middle name is to be disclosed on the 4473. This has opened a can of worms and it couldn't happen to a better place!!

 

[Chevusa]

Walmart can ask to SEE some other form of ID, they are not to be copying or scanning SS cards or birth certificates and keeping them for the purpose of purchasing a gun.

Absolutely right. They are not to collect them.

 

[Deplorable Me]

The kick I get out of Wally World and Dick's for that matter is when a clerk states the extra steps and documentation are "law" and in reality it's a stupid corporate policy.

 

[Chevusa]

The kick I get out of Wally World and Dick's for that matter is when a clerk states the extra steps and documentation are "law" and in reality it's a stupid corporate policy.

Right, so the business or corporation is misleading you into providing them documents that they have no right to possess.