Xtreme Defender

[Truebeliever]

I'm obsessed with researching terminal ballistics online. I've read papers from Dr. Martin Fackler, the FBI, and a few other trauma ER doctors. The general consensus seems to be that they cannot tell what caliber was used based on the wound profile when the bullet could not be recovered.

Dr. Fackler and others also dispel the energy dump myth that's been floating around the internet. Handgun bullets are just too slow for energy dump to make any impact. He also said that from all his years treating combat wounds from rifle rounds in the Navy, it's negligible for those as well. It could happen with a rifle but it would have to be extremely close to a vital.

I believe him as evidenced by the multiple times people have been shot by hollow point pistol rounds in non vital areas in the chest cavity and lived. They weren't knocked out cold. You can see multiple examples of this online in videos. If knock down power and energy dump were a factor in stopping someone, the 115 gr Winchester Silvertip that stopped an inch from the perps heart in the 1986 Miami shootout would have knocked him out and he wouldn't have continued to fight and kill other agents. That's not the only instance where hollow points have failed. They fail everyday in immediately knocking someone out when striking them.

Now as far as bullet diameter goes, that doesn't make an immediate difference either. A shot to a non vital by a .45 the goes through and through compared to a 9mm that does the same, the result is the same. The guy that gets shot with a .45 diameter hole isn't going to bleed out and die any quicker to make a difference than the guy shot with a .355 diameter hole. You'll lose blood at roughly the same negligible rate. During that time the perp has many minutes to die and can continue fighting. Even a .45 ACP that expands to. 80 isn't an immediate stopper unless a vital is struck. The blood loss isn't going to be immediate that the perp gets knocked out. How many times have femoral arteries been struck and the person lives for many minutes until he bleeds out? And that's an artery A shot to flesh isn't going to be any faster.

Shot placement and sufficient penetration to vitals is all that matters when stopping someone in seconds. Minutes don't matter. That's why hollow points aren't ideal in my opinion. They don't penetrate enough in many circumstances.

Prior 2 hollow points being invented and widely used, no one complained about poor barrier penetration, over penetration or stopping power. The. 38, .357, .45, 9mm have killed many people immediately or within seconds when vitals were struck.

For whatever reason, law enforcement is heavily invested in hollow points. I don't know if it's due to minimizing potential over penetration lawsuits or if it's a monkey see monkey do. You know the whole 9mm is no good. 10mm is best. 10mm is too much. .40 is best. .40 is too much. 9mm is best. These Police departments are tripping over themselves following each other. Usually it's a chief that reads a magazine or online forum and makes a decision for the whole department on what ammo to field.

I like these bullets because they are consistent. They don't break up and penetrate the same no matter what common barrier is in front of them.

If you ask me, hollow points give you more problems than any immediate benefit within seconds. (which is all that counts in stopping someone.) you can ever gain from them. About the only thing they help in is over penetration. I don't worry about that either. It wasn't a problem in the past. You are supposed to know your target and beyond. A miss is an over penetrator. Ironically, over penetration isn't an issue if using a rifle or a shotgun.

Someone revitalized this old thread and brought it to my attention, sorry for the very late reply.

I am no ballistic expert but I have read the same reports about handgun bullets. And just personal observation of people after they have been shot. I agree with that assessment of handgun rounds.

People did complain about handgun round performance before hollow point ammo. Their answer was to change calibers hence the 45 ACP was born.

The hollowpoint issue became bigger when semi auto was adopted by police departments and the need for metal jacketed rounds instead of the revolver lead rounds.

Yes over penetration was a big concern. Hence the FBI standard minimum of 12 to the maximum of 18 inches

There was a concern with the extra barrier penetration FMJ would provide as well.

But I think a big reason was ricochets. Hollowpoint points are believed to ricochet less if not with less penetration power if they do.