Wanting to buy a thermal scope. Best bang for my buck?

[Rap]

I am interested in enhanced sight. Thermal seems to be superior to night vision and more applicable to a broader range of situations.
I'd appreciate input on which model scopes represent the best value. I understand that thermal technology is pricey, yet hope to minimize costs as much as possible.
Thanks.

 

[Tisto]

What's your budget ? What purpose do you want it to serve - hunting ? If for hunting, what species ? At what distances do you intend to use it ? What type of thermal are you looking for - weapon sight ? Handheld viewer ? Helmet mount ? If a weapon sight, what type of weapon ? How good does the resolution have to be ?


There is a bunch of discussion on this topic, most of it in the predator hunting section.

I started out with a FLIR Thermosight Pro PTS 536. That was a $ 3500 weapon sight. I outgrew that scope in two years. Last winter I sold that scope and upgraded to an InfaRay Rico RH50.

There are a few of us dedicated predator hunters here. You'll get opinions from each of us.

@JamieZ
@Shoots100

 

[Tisto]

Are you sure that thermal is what you want ? Nightvision and thermal both do the same thing in different ways. They allow you to see what your eye alone can not. But they both have pro's and con's. You need to be aware of the capabilities and limitations of both in order to make a good choice.

As mentioned above, I hunt predators with a thermal weapon sight. I also use a Gen 2+ nightvision weapon sight. They both work well, but they are not the same.

My first bit of advice is toRUN...DO NOT WALK AWAY FROM ATN PRODUCTS.

 

[Rap]

What's your budget ? What purpose do you want it to serve - hunting ? If for hunting, what species ? At what distances do you intend to use it ? What type of thermal are you looking for - weapon sight ? Handheld viewer ? Helmet mount ? If a weapon sight, what type of weapon ? How good does the resolution have to be ?


There is a bunch of discussion on this topic, most of it in the predator hunting section.

I started out with a FLIR Thermosight Pro PTS 536. That was a $ 3500 weapon sight. I outgrew that scope in two years. Last winter I sold that scope and upgraded to an InfaRay Rico RH50.

There are a few of us dedicated predator hunters here. You'll get opinions from each of us.

@ JamieZ
@ Shoots100

My budget is $4K, max. Distances to approx 300 yards. Survival situations are the use case, so both hunting and zombie apocalypse. I'm in western NY, so as for hunting it will be whatever can be taken. Weapon mounted scope, either my Mini-14 or Browning BAR .308.

 

[Tisto]

For mounting on something other than a flat top AR type rifle, you're going to want a traditional type scope. You'll find that if you try to mount something like my InfaRay on a traditional bolt action rifle, it winds up being way above the gun, making it impossible to get a good cheek weld to the stock. One of those two guys I mentioned above has a Pulsar mounted on a bolt action rifle and loves it. I don't remember which model he has. Thermion maybe ?

Pulsar, Bering Optics, AGM, InfaRay, Trijicon all make good products, but they all make a big range of them. Obviously, more $$$ gets you better performance.

A friend of mine has a Super Yoter and likes it a lot, but only hunts occasionally. Another guy I know has a low resolution Rattler. I know a couple people with Pulsar Digisights ( digital nightvision ) that are happy with them. Digital NV can be used day or night, but it's nightvision - not thermal.

I bought my InfaRay from a place called THERMAL OPTICS PLUS. The guy was AWESOME to deal with, and didn't charge NYsales tax because he's in Tennessee and doesn't have to. Also he gave me a nice military discount. I highly recommend doing business with him.

 

[Rap]

I am open to being better educated.
As I understand it, nightvision won't work in broad daylight and also requires a certain amount of light to function at night. Thermal/IR works through these scenarios. Aside from being hungrier on batteries, more taxing on the eyes and possibly more delicate, what are ways that IR gear is inferior to NV?

And I'll continue to peruse existing threads that I can find which address some of my basic questions.

 

[Tisto]

Because thermal "sees" heat then converts it to an image, that image is a representation of what your eye would recognize. Therefore, certain things lose detail or get combined into one.

Nightvision amplifies what light there is to generate an image the same asy your eye would see if it could.

I find that it is much easier to determine whether an animal is a coyote or your neighbor's dog using night vision. However, using it to scan a hedgerow to find that animal relies on your brain picking that image out of the surrounding trees and such. Using thermal to scan that same hedgerow, the trees and ground will all appear roughly the same but when a heat source is there it jumps out and screams "here I am" .

You can hide from nightvision much easier than hiding from thermal.

NIGHTVISION GUYS (?) [ I think that's the websight ] do a ton of explaining this stuff with videos. Sit down and watch a few videos. I'll make sure that's the place I'm thinking of and correct this suggestion if not.

 

[Tisto]

Sorry, it's the NIGHT VISION SHOW. Go watch a bunch of their reviews.

 

[Tisto]

If you care to take the ride out to Corfu, you can try out both of my nightvision an thermal scopes sometime.

 

[Rap]

If you care to take the ride out to Corfu, you can try out both of my nightvision an thermal scopes sometime.

That's a kind offer. Gonna look up the distance and may just take you up on that.

 

[Tisto]

Not sure what part of Rochester you're in, but Corfu is the Rt.77 exit for Pembroke / Medina. Exit 48 A on I90, one exit west of Batavia. The club is 7 miles from the exit.

 

[spat]

Because thermal "sees" heat then converts it to an image, that image is a representation of what your eye would recognize. Therefore, certain things lose detail or get combined into one.

Nightvision amplifies what light there is to generate an image the same asy your eye would see if it could.

I find that it is much easier to determine whether an animal is a coyote or your neighbor's dog using night vision. However, using it to scan a hedgerow to find that animal relies on your brain picking that image out of the surrounding trees and such. Using thermal to scan that same hedgerow, the trees and ground will all appear roughly the same but when a heat source is there it jumps out and screams "here I am" .

You can hide from nightvision much easier than hiding from thermal.

NIGHTVISION GUYS (?) [ I think that's the websight ] do a ton of explaining this stuff with videos. Sit down and watch a few videos. I'll make sure that's the place I'm thinking of and correct this suggestion if not.

I just have bargain basement stuff to play around with, so I don't really know that much, but my understanding was always that thermal was superior at finding targets and NV at actually identifying them.

So a thermal spotting scope paired with a NV rifle scope is a good combination.

Wonder how long before someone makes one of the digital ones with both image sensors and a way to direct the incoming light to the appropriate sensor to make an all in one scope (daylight, NV, and thermal).

 

[Tisto]

I just have bargain basement stuff to play around with, so I don't really know that much, but my understanding was always that thermal was superior at finding targets and NV at actually identifying them.

So a thermal spotting scope paired with a NV rifle scope is a good combination.

Wonder how long before someone makes one of the digital ones with both image sensors and a way to direct the incoming light to the appropriate sensor to make an all in one scope (daylight, NV, and thermal).

They already exist. Fusion scopes. We're talking about SERIOUS money though. It will be a generation or more before they're available to the public at a price point that anyone can afford.

The price of real (intensifier tube) nightvision fell to a reasonable level and then plateaued. Since then it has remained at current level. Digital nightvision prices fell to current levels rather quickly after the technology was introduced. Thermal imaging is still rather prohibitively priced, especially at the better performing end of the spectrum. The prices of thermal seem to be holding constant, perhaps gaining some performance as time passes. Still, you're going to pay $ 5000 or more to get an excellent image.

I have seen a few videos of the Fusion imagers, but have never seen one in person. The videos I saw were awesome though.

 

[Tisto]

I just have bargain basement stuff to play around with, so I don't really know that much, but my understanding was always that thermal was superior at finding targets and NV at actually identifying them.

So a thermal spotting scope paired with a NV rifle scope is a good combination.

Wonder how long before someone makes one of the digital ones with both image sensors and a way to direct the incoming light to the appropriate sensor to make an all in one scope (daylight, NV, and thermal).

What you say is true. If you look at a person through nightvision, you see and can recognize that person. If you look at them through thermal, you can identify them as a person, but you may not be able to distinguish who is who.

 

[Shoots100]

Tisto is steering you in the right direction and you should take up his generous offer to look through his optics before you purchase anything.
The only negative is that you'll be looking through a top of the line 640 res scope that's way out of your price range.
In your price range, My recommendation would be an AGM TM15-384 monocular and an Iray Bolt TL35 scope combo.
A thermal scanner is used 98% more than the scope.
It would be cheaper with a thermal mono/NV or DNV scope combo, but the first time you try to engage a target with the NV scope and can't find it after easily tracking it with the thermal mono, you'll appreciate spending a little more to have a thermal mono/scope combo and no frustration.
You would be set up to hunt from the get go, with no compromises and the monocular can be used for a whole lot more than predator hunting.

 

[Rap]

Update:
Received and returned my digital (not thermal) NV scope and am going with a traditional, high quality optic for now.
Will pursue night sight again soon; in the interim, need to have a working scope on my rifle.

 

[Shoots100]

Keep saving up those pennies, as owning the night is priceless and with what's going down in this country now, the sooner you can do it, the better.