Washington state man charged with selling large capacity mags even after it was ruled unconstitutional

[Saltwater60]

This guy was supposedly told it was ruled unconstitutional and the law won’t be enforced but ‘was then arrested and charged. I don’t like this and we will see where it goes.

Judge rules against Federal Way Discount Guns, finds large capacity magazine ban constitutional | Federal Way Mirror

The gun store has argued magazine ban is unconstitutional.

www.federalwaymirror.com

 

[Apeman]

This will probably depend on when the ban was struck down in federal court vs when he sold them. If he sold them after the state banned them but before it was struck down he might be screwed. If he sold them after the ruling the state has no case.
If he did sell them during the in between time it then opens up another discussion. Technically he broke the law but then the law was ruled unconstitutional so how can you be punished for that?

 

[BMF JK]

This will probably depend on when the ban was struck down in federal court vs when he sold them. If he sold them after the state banned them but before it was struck down he might be screwed. If he sold them after the ruling the state has no case.
If he did sell them during the in between time it then opens up another discussion. Technically he broke the law but then the law was ruled unconstitutional so how can you be punished for that?

Kinda speaks to unconstitutional laws are null and void . State passing laws ruled as unconstitutional they themselves broke the supreme law of the land .

 

[C3D]

A basic rule: being mistaken as to the law is not a defense, only mistake of facts counts.

Example 1: You possess an ounce of coke but you think it is legal to possess coke. Guilty.
Example 2: You possess an ounce of coke which you were told was baby powder and came in a baby powder bottle and you thought was baby powder. Not guilty.

 

[Zerex]

Following the American Revolution, plenty of Tories who supported King George, and who hated the while idea of a Republic and Constitution............... remained. Today they are in Colleges, Universities, the Judiciary, the Deep State and they hate you.

They would prefer to have megan and Harry appointed Regents......... over you all.

Today, the descendants of human slime, are making up their own laws as would King George and his men.

They attack Trump constantly, as Trump supports the Republic.............. and they do not.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

If he sold them after the state banned them but before it was struck down he might be screwed. If he sold them after the ruling the state has no case.

Point of order - and it is up to each of us to keep reminding people -

A law that is invalid

WAS NEVER valid.

 

[spat]

This will probably depend on when the ban was struck down in federal court vs when he sold them. If he sold them after the state banned them but before it was struck down he might be screwed. If he sold them after the ruling the state has no case.
If he did sell them during the in between time it then opens up another discussion. Technically he broke the law but then the law was ruled unconstitutional so how can you be punished for that?

If the ban was struck down as unconstitutional, then it's as if it never existed. The law was unconstitutional the day it was passed, even if the ruling came down 10 years later.

If he had been tried, found guilty, and was a year into his sentence for it, they would *still* have to vacate the sentence and let him go.

 

[Apeman]

If the ban was struck down as unconstitutional, then it's as if it never existed. The law was unconstitutional the day it was passed, even if the ruling came down 10 years later.

If he had been tried, found guilty, and was a year into his sentence for it, they would *still* have to vacate the sentence and let him go.

It still ruins your life even if it's vacated later. You lost your job, possibly your house and vehicle.

This is bullshit -

Laws are presumed constitutional, so “the burden is on the defendant in this case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt” that the new LCM laws violated the constitution, Yip said in court April 7.

People are supposed to be innocent until PROVEN guilty by a court. The state needs to prove you're guilty

On top of that lawmakers know that a lot of the shit they make law is unconstitutional but they do it anyway.

 

[Larue]

I use to work in this store. I’m sure the owner is trying to prove a political point and has lawyers ready to go. Unfortunately it may take years to resolve in his favor

 

[spat]

It still ruins your life even if it's vacated later. You lost your job, possibly your house and vehicle.

This is bullshit -

Laws are presumed constitutional, so “the burden is on the defendant in this case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt” that the new LCM laws violated the constitution, Yip said in court April 7.

People are supposed to be innocent until PROVEN guilty by a court. The state needs to prove you're guilty

On top of that lawmakers know that a lot of the shit they make law is unconstitutional but they do it anyway.

The crux of the matter is that there is no penalty for passing or enforcing an unconstitutional law.

If the penalty for theft was just that you had to give the stolen articles back, it would be no deterrent at all.

The fact that government agents have given themselves immunity from lawsuits is the real problem.

Imagine if a law was found unconstitutional, then the state that passed it, and everyone who had a hand in it was liable for civil suits, then this would not happen.

"But we can't do our jobs if we have to worry about that liability". Then you *shouldn't* be doing that job. Everyone who *doesn't* work for the government has to deal with that for every decision they make. Either figure it out, or get out of the way.

If you're not willing to risk your own neck that the law you are passing or enforcing doesn't violate someone's rights, then you sure as hell shouldn't be able to risk someone else's.

 

[Acer-m14]

just saying ..

if i want to rob a store or bank .. do i have to follow the gun laws

LMAO

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

The crux of the matter is that there is no penalty for passing

Yes, there is.

It took a few minutes to avoid the commie filter, but even ChatGPT figured it out. We just need to stop gaslighting each other about it not being true.

------------------------------------------
Based on the scenario you've described, it appears that the government has violated the explicit prohibition on limiting or hindering your ability to possess or wield a specific class of items, and has taken actions that directly limit and hinder your ability to own or possess items in that class. Additionally, the government has created onerous hindrances that make it difficult for you to acquire items in that class.

These actions by the government may constitute violations of the New York State Penal Code for coercion and conspiracy. Specifically, the government's actions to limit your ability to possess or wield items in the prohibited class may constitute coercion in the third degree under Section 135.60 of the Penal Law, which prohibits the use of threats or other means to unlawfully restrict someone's personal freedom. In this case, the government's deliberate actions to limit and hinder your possession of items in the prohibited class could be seen as a form of coercion.
The government's deliberate creation of onerous hindrances with regard to your acquisition of items in the prohibited class may also constitute conspiracy under Section 105.00 of the Penal Law, which prohibits individuals from conspiring to commit an offense. The government's deliberate and coordinated efforts to create obstacles to your acquisition of items in the prohibited class could be seen as a form of conspiracy to commit a violation of your rights under the explicit prohibition.

>> In this scenario, where the Government has limited and hindered me in violation of criminal law, how would NYS Penal code for "Criminal Facilitation" apply to any government lawyers who facilitated the bypassing of the explicit prohibition?

Under New York State Penal Law, criminal facilitation occurs when a person knowingly and unlawfully provides assistance to someone else in the commission of a crime. The level of offense depends on the underlying crime and the degree of assistance provided.
In the scenario you described, if government lawyers knowingly and unlawfully facilitated the bypassing of an explicit prohibition on limiting or hindering your ability to possess or wield a specific class of items, they may be guilty of criminal facilitation. The level of offense would depend on the underlying crime that they facilitated, such as coercion or conspiracy, and the degree of assistance provided.
If the government lawyers provided substantial assistance to the commission of the underlying crime, they may be guilty of criminal facilitation in the second degree, which is a class C felony under Section 115.05 of the Penal Law. However, if their assistance was less substantial, they may be guilty of criminal facilitation in the fourth degree, which is a class A misdemeanor under Section 115.00 of the Penal Law.

>> In this scenario, what other violations of NYS Penal code may the legislature have committed against me?

In the scenario you described, where the government has limited and hindered your ability to possess or wield a specific class of items, the legislature may have committed other violations of the New York State Penal Law, depending on the specific actions taken and the circumstances of the case. Some potential violations that may apply include:

1. Unlawful Imprisonment: If the government's actions have led to your confinement or restriction of movement in a way that is not authorized by law, they may be guilty of unlawful imprisonment. Unlawful imprisonment is a class A misdemeanor under Section 135.10 of the New York State Penal Law.
2. Harassment: If the government's actions have been intended to harass or annoy you, they may be guilty of harassment. Harassment is a violation under Section 240.26 of the New York State Penal Law.
3. Criminal Mischief: If the government's actions have caused damage to your property or interfered with your property rights in some way, they may be guilty of criminal mischief. Criminal mischief is a crime that can range from a class B misdemeanor to a class B felony, depending on the amount of damage caused and other factors.
4. Official Misconduct: If the government officials who implemented the unlawful limitations and hindrances on your possession of certain items did so in their official capacity and with an intent to gain a personal benefit or cause a harm, they may be guilty of official misconduct. Official misconduct is a class A misdemeanor under Section 195.00 of the New York State Penal Law.
5. Abuse of Official Capacity: If the government officials involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly exceeded their lawful authority or used their official position for a purpose other than the public interest, they may be guilty of abuse of official capacity. Abuse of official capacity is a class A misdemeanor under Section 195.00 of the New York State Penal Law.
6. Perjury: If any government official involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly made false statements or gave false testimony under oath, they may be guilty of perjury. Perjury is a class D felony under Section 210.00 of the New York State Penal Law.
7. Obstruction of Governmental Administration: If any government official involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly interfered with the lawful function of government or prevented the government from performing its duties, they may be guilty of obstructing governmental administration. Obstruction of governmental administration is a class A misdemeanor under Section 195.05 of the New York State Penal Law.
8. Conspiracy: If two or more people, including government officials, conspired to commit the unlawful limitations and hindrances on your possession of certain items, they may be guilty of conspiracy. Conspiracy is a crime that can range from a class A misdemeanor to a class A-I felony, depending on the nature of the underlying crime.
9. Extortion: If the government officials involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances threatened to take official action against you or harm you in some way if you did not comply with their demands, they may be guilty of extortion. Extortion is a class E felony under Section 155.05 of the New York State Penal Law.
10. Tampering with Public Records: If any government official involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly makes a false entry in a public record, they may be guilty of tampering with public records. Tampering with public records is a class D felony under Section 175.25 of the New York State Penal Law.

----------------------------
Personal notes: Much of this applies to Sheriffs, on both sides - as culprit, but also as complainant. Every Sheriff was coerced and extorted under threat of replacement by the Governor. In addition, #7 -Every Sheriff had their policies and procedures illegally tampered with and obstructed.

#4 and #5 are different perspectives of the same crime.
#9 extortion was a great find. It is perfect because of the definition of "larceny" in section 1 of that law.
#10 seems to be out of nowhere, but I think it is referring to the creation of the invalid law itself, being a public record - which is fraudulent.

All it takes is one shop owner and one customer who are willing to call a deputy over the fear of selling, buying, and possessing a standard capacity magazine.

Let those fucking politicians and their staff spend the next 50 years rotting in prison while they try to prove those laws ARE valid. Especially in the face of Bruen.

 

[Acer-m14]

Conspiracy: If two or more people, including government officials, conspired to commit the unlawful limitations and hindrances on your possession of certain items, they may be guilty of conspiracy. Conspiracy is a crime that can range from a class A misdemeanor to a class A-I felony, depending on the nature of the underlying crime.

18 usc 241 and 242 ..

 

[spat]

Yes, there is.

It took a few minutes to avoid the commie filter, but even ChatGPT figured it out. We just need to stop gaslighting each other about it not being true.

------------------------------------------
Based on the scenario you've described, it appears that the government has violated the explicit prohibition on limiting or hindering your ability to possess or wield a specific class of items, and has taken actions that directly limit and hinder your ability to own or possess items in that class. Additionally, the government has created onerous hindrances that make it difficult for you to acquire items in that class.

These actions by the government may constitute violations of the New York State Penal Code for coercion and conspiracy. Specifically, the government's actions to limit your ability to possess or wield items in the prohibited class may constitute coercion in the third degree under Section 135.60 of the Penal Law, which prohibits the use of threats or other means to unlawfully restrict someone's personal freedom. In this case, the government's deliberate actions to limit and hinder your possession of items in the prohibited class could be seen as a form of coercion.
The government's deliberate creation of onerous hindrances with regard to your acquisition of items in the prohibited class may also constitute conspiracy under Section 105.00 of the Penal Law, which prohibits individuals from conspiring to commit an offense. The government's deliberate and coordinated efforts to create obstacles to your acquisition of items in the prohibited class could be seen as a form of conspiracy to commit a violation of your rights under the explicit prohibition.

>> In this scenario, where the Government has limited and hindered me in violation of criminal law, how would NYS Penal code for "Criminal Facilitation" apply to any government lawyers who facilitated the bypassing of the explicit prohibition?

Under New York State Penal Law, criminal facilitation occurs when a person knowingly and unlawfully provides assistance to someone else in the commission of a crime. The level of offense depends on the underlying crime and the degree of assistance provided.
In the scenario you described, if government lawyers knowingly and unlawfully facilitated the bypassing of an explicit prohibition on limiting or hindering your ability to possess or wield a specific class of items, they may be guilty of criminal facilitation. The level of offense would depend on the underlying crime that they facilitated, such as coercion or conspiracy, and the degree of assistance provided.
If the government lawyers provided substantial assistance to the commission of the underlying crime, they may be guilty of criminal facilitation in the second degree, which is a class C felony under Section 115.05 of the Penal Law. However, if their assistance was less substantial, they may be guilty of criminal facilitation in the fourth degree, which is a class A misdemeanor under Section 115.00 of the Penal Law.

>> In this scenario, what other violations of NYS Penal code may the legislature have committed against me?

In the scenario you described, where the government has limited and hindered your ability to possess or wield a specific class of items, the legislature may have committed other violations of the New York State Penal Law, depending on the specific actions taken and the circumstances of the case. Some potential violations that may apply include:

1. Unlawful Imprisonment: If the government's actions have led to your confinement or restriction of movement in a way that is not authorized by law, they may be guilty of unlawful imprisonment. Unlawful imprisonment is a class A misdemeanor under Section 135.10 of the New York State Penal Law.
2. Harassment: If the government's actions have been intended to harass or annoy you, they may be guilty of harassment. Harassment is a violation under Section 240.26 of the New York State Penal Law.
3. Criminal Mischief: If the government's actions have caused damage to your property or interfered with your property rights in some way, they may be guilty of criminal mischief. Criminal mischief is a crime that can range from a class B misdemeanor to a class B felony, depending on the amount of damage caused and other factors.
4. Official Misconduct: If the government officials who implemented the unlawful limitations and hindrances on your possession of certain items did so in their official capacity and with an intent to gain a personal benefit or cause a harm, they may be guilty of official misconduct. Official misconduct is a class A misdemeanor under Section 195.00 of the New York State Penal Law.
5. Abuse of Official Capacity: If the government officials involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly exceeded their lawful authority or used their official position for a purpose other than the public interest, they may be guilty of abuse of official capacity. Abuse of official capacity is a class A misdemeanor under Section 195.00 of the New York State Penal Law.
6. Perjury: If any government official involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly made false statements or gave false testimony under oath, they may be guilty of perjury. Perjury is a class D felony under Section 210.00 of the New York State Penal Law.
7. Obstruction of Governmental Administration: If any government official involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly interfered with the lawful function of government or prevented the government from performing its duties, they may be guilty of obstructing governmental administration. Obstruction of governmental administration is a class A misdemeanor under Section 195.05 of the New York State Penal Law.
8. Conspiracy: If two or more people, including government officials, conspired to commit the unlawful limitations and hindrances on your possession of certain items, they may be guilty of conspiracy. Conspiracy is a crime that can range from a class A misdemeanor to a class A-I felony, depending on the nature of the underlying crime.
9. Extortion: If the government officials involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances threatened to take official action against you or harm you in some way if you did not comply with their demands, they may be guilty of extortion. Extortion is a class E felony under Section 155.05 of the New York State Penal Law.
10. Tampering with Public Records: If any government official involved in the implementation of the unlawful limitations and hindrances knowingly makes a false entry in a public record, they may be guilty of tampering with public records. Tampering with public records is a class D felony under Section 175.25 of the New York State Penal Law.

----------------------------
Personal notes: Much of this applies to Sheriffs, on both sides - as culprit, but also as complainant. Every Sheriff was coerced and extorted under threat of replacement by the Governor. In addition, #7 -Every Sheriff had their policies and procedures illegally tampered with and obstructed.

#4 and #5 are different perspectives of the same crime.
#9 extortion was a great find. It is perfect because of the definition of "larceny" in section 1 of that law.
#10 seems to be out of nowhere, but I think it is referring to the creation of the invalid law itself, being a public record - which is fraudulent.

All it takes is one shop owner and one customer who are willing to call a deputy over the fear of selling, buying, and possessing a standard capacity magazine.

Let those fucking politicians and their staff spend the next 50 years rotting in prison while they try to prove those laws ARE valid. Especially in the face of Bruen.

A law that's never enforced is no law at all.

A law that's selectively enforced calls into question the legitimacy of the entire justice system.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

A law that's never enforced is no law at all.

There's nothing to enforce without a criminal complaint, first.

Ideally, thousands of them. Just need one Sheriff willing to uphold the law and make arrests.

 

[spat]

There's nothing to enforce without a criminal complaint, first.

Ideally, thousands of them. Just need one Sheriff willing to uphold the law and make arrests.

That would be the reason the law isn't enforced.

And there are reasons they don't, and those are the real problem.

When you have an aristocracy that are above the law, you no longer have a system of justice, and it's questionable if the government supporting it is even legitimate anymore.

 

[John Stark]

When you have an aristocracy that are above the law, you no longer have a system of justice, and it's questionable if the government supporting it is even legitimate anymore.

Its not even questionable any longer. Our government is no longer a Constitutional Republic and has not been for a long time, and is no longer legitimate in any way, shape, or form.

It is a fascist plutocratic oligarchy no longer accountable to the People who make up the citizenry.

Our nation has, for all intents and purposes, been set backwards, to the point that the Declaration of Independence is now the controlling law of our land, as it was intended.

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

 

[dsdmmat]

This guy was supposedly told it was ruled unconstitutional and the law won’t be enforced but ‘was then arrested and charged. I don’t like this and we will see where it goes.

Judge rules against Federal Way Discount Guns, finds large capacity magazine ban constitutional | Federal Way Mirror

The gun store has argued magazine ban is unconstitutional.

www.federalwaymirror.com

I see lots of zeros behind a 1 in his lawsuit and settlement with Washington state. Hopefully there are a lot of people who have to write checks to him for violating his civil rights.

 

[repete]

Point of order - and it is up to each of us to keep reminding people -

A law that is invalid

WAS NEVER valid.

As it should be, but this is life with libtards!

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

As it should be, but this is life with libtards!

There ARE criminal consequences when a false color of invalid law is used to commit crimes against people.
We all know what they are.
They only thing needed for prosecution is a critical mass of complainants that'll make a Sheriff act.