Israel: 'State of war' declared after thousands of rockets fired from Gaza Strip

FrankenCub

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Don't get me wrong, I know Christianity has had their issues in the day, and it's not just my hatred of Islam. I'm an atheist so I don't believe in any religion. I see how they all are. I will happily hang out with Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs etc. Hell, some of the coolest dudes I've met are Sikh and Buddhist.
But fuck Islam!
 
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H

holdover

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spat said:
The Isrealis would be justified in doing *that* at this point.
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Justified or not, neither side should be killing civilians , I condemn both sides equally. Not to say I dont understand the anger of Isreal . I would probably feel the same way . Killing civilians is prohibited under the Geneva conventions and is considered a war crime. Some NAZI's were tried and condemned to death for the killing of civilians . I can cut some slack for Isreal , the innocent must be avenged , Hamas must be destroyed . But at some point you have to pull the leash on them , I cant condone a genocide as righteous.
 
Defilade

Defilade

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tirwin1 said:
Is this the same united nations that is part of the global conspiracies? NOW you use the UN?

P.S. I think the UN doesn't believe the world is flat.
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P.S.

Yes they do!
FM Idrissov Lays out Kazakhstan’s Top UN Collaboration Priorities - The ...

FM Idrissov Lays out Kazakhstan’s Top UN Collaboration Priorities - The ...
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Defilade

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spat said:
Just because one side is strong and the other is weak doesn't make the weak side the good guys and the strong side the bad guys.

If Isreal was 1% as bad as they claim, there wouldn't *be* any Palestinians.

Isreal could kill the Palestinians to the last man anytime they wanted. They could have done that anytime in the last 20 years.

The fact that there are any Palestinians above room temperature is a testament to Isreali restraint.

IMHO, they should have been *far* harsher in the past and then the current problems wouldn't exist.

Also "mass genocide" ? Really ? Hyperbole much ? Is there such a thing as non-mass genocide ?
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They slaughterd thousands already. Next!

Genocide Unfolding in Palestine: Craig Murray | SGT Report

www.sgtreport.com www.sgtreport.com
 
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So is Ron Paul out of his mind by bringing this to people's attention years ago? This is how False Flags happen.

 
tirwin1

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spat said:
In WWII we would drop incendiary rounds in a ring around the perimeter of a city to create a self sustaining firestorm.

It was as effective as a nuke, just took more planes.

The Isrealis would be justified in doing *that* at this point. Hamas has been shelling them continuously for decades out of Gaza, and essentially the whole place is one giant military encampment.

The fact that there are civilians mixed in with all the legitimate targets there doesn't make them off limits.
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From the Bible and a quote from the RAF's leader "bomber" Harris when talking about bombing German cities:

"They have sown the wind and shall reap the whirlwind."

Hamas started this. They deliberately killed civilians and deliberately hide military targets within their civilians. They are responsible for civilian deaths, not the Israelis. Ugly but true.
 
spat

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Phazer said:
The Israelis are not the Syrians taking on The Muslim Brotherhood in Hama in 1982 (where the Assad regime destroyed the city and killed 10,000 to 40,000 people). So, that won't happen here.

Historically, it appears that the Jews in Israel are a bit more discriminating when killing Muslim terrorists than Muslims are.
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You're not wrong.

I was saying what they would need to do.

Not claiming they had the stomach to do it.

But, maybe some good old regime change in Iran would solve their problems.

Iran in the 70s was a fairy agreeable western nation. They just let their Islamist problem get out of hand, then it was too late.

We may be in the same situation with our leftists
 
spat

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holdover said:
Justified or not, neither side should be killing civilians , I condemn both sides equally. Not to say I dont understand the anger of Isreal . I would probably feel the same way . Killing civilians is prohibited under the Geneva conventions and is considered a war crime. Some NAZI's were tried and condemned to death for the killing of civilians . I can cut some slack for Isreal , the innocent must be avenged , Hamas must be destroyed . But at some point you have to pull the leash on them , I cant condone a genocide as righteous.
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You're absolutely wrong about that.

Civilians getting killed is part and parcel of war. There is no prohibition on killing civilians in even the most milquetoast version of the "rules".

What is prohibited is intentionally *targetting* civilians who are not associated with a legitimate military objective.

Every factory we bombed in WWII was almost exclusively staffed by civilians. They were all legitimate targets. If the factory is producing war materiel, it doesn't matter if they're running it on child labor, it's a legitimate target.

You would probably be hard pressed to find a building in Gaza that Hamas *isn't* using for something, or a person who isn't working for them.

Gaza should get the Dresden and Tokyo treatment. And that's only because the Heroshima and Nagasaki treatment carries too much political baggage for Isreal.

The only real fault the Isrealis have here is an unwillingness to do what needs to be done to secure real victory. That's the same problem we've had in every war since WWII.

You cannot fight like we did in Vietnam and win. To win a real war you need to unleash the full power of your military, and tell the diplomats and politicians to sit the fuck down and shut up till you're done.
 
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holdover

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spat said:
You're absolutely wrong about that.

Civilians getting killed is part and parcel of war. There is no prohibition on killing civilians in even the most milquetoast version of the "rules".

What is prohibited is intentionally *targetting* civilians who are not associated with a legitimate military objective.

Every factory we bombed in WWII was almost exclusively staffed by civilians. They were all legitimate targets. If the factory is producing war materiel, it doesn't matter if they're running it on child labor, it's a legitimate target.

You would probably be hard pressed to find a building in Gaza that Hamas *isn't* using for something, or a person who isn't working for them.

Gaza should get the Dresden and Tokyo treatment. And that's only because the Heroshima and Nagasaki treatment carries too much political baggage for Isreal.

The only real fault the Isrealis have here is an unwillingness to do what needs to be done to secure real victory. That's the same problem we've had in every war since WWII.

You cannot fight like we did in Vietnam and win. To win a real war you need to unleash the full power of your military, and tell the diplomats and politicians to sit the fuck down and shut up till you're done.
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What are you drinking?


  1. For the purpose of this Statute, ‘crime against humanity’ means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:
    1. Murder;
    2. Extermination;
    3. Enslavement;
    4. Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
    5. Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
    6. Torture;
    7. Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
    8. Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
    9. Enforced disappearance of persons;
    10. The crime of apartheid;
    11. Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.
  2. For the purpose of paragraph 1:
    1. ‘Attack directed against any civilian population’ means a course of conduct involving the multiple commission of acts referred to in paragraph 1 against any civilian population, pursuant to or in furtherance of a State or organizational policy to commit such attack;

Elements of the crime​

According to Article 7 (1) of the Rome Statute, crimes against humanity do not need to be linked to an armed conflict and can also occur in peacetime, similar to the crime of genocide. That same Article provides a definition of the crime that contains the following main elements:

  1. A physical element, which includes the commission of “any of the following acts”:
    1. Murder;
    2. Extermination;
    3. Enslavement;
    4. Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
    5. Imprisonment;
    6. Torture;
    7. Grave forms of sexual violence;
    8. Persecution;
    9. Enforced disappearance of persons;
    10. The crime of apartheid;
    11. Other inhumane acts

United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect
www.un.org
  1. Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts:
    1. Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities;
    2. Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not military objectives;
    3. Intentionally directing attacks against personnel, installations, material, units or vehicles involved in a humanitarian assistance or peacekeeping mission in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, as long as they are entitled to the protection given to civilians or civilian objects under the international law of armed conflict;
    4. Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
    5. Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives;
    6. Killing or wounding a combatant who, having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;
    7. Making improper use of a flag of truce, of the flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy or of the United Nations, as well as of the distinctive emblems of the Geneva Conventions, resulting in death or serious personal injury;
    8. The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;
    9. Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives;
    10. Subjecting persons who are in the power of an adverse party to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are neither justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the person concerned nor carried out in his or her interest, and which cause death to or seriously endanger the health of such person or persons;
    11. Killing or wounding treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;
    12. Declaring that no quarter will be given;
    13. Destroying or seizing the enemy's property unless such destruction or seizure be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war;
    14. Declaring abolished, suspended or inadmissible in a court of law the rights and actions of the nationals of the hostile party;
    15. Compelling the nationals of the hostile party to take part in the operations of war directed against their own country, even if they were in the belligerent's service before the commencement of the war;
    16. Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault;
    17. Employing poison or poisoned weapons;
    18. Employing asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and all analogous liquids, materials or devices;
    19. Employing bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions;
    20. Employing weapons, projectiles and material and methods of warfare which are of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering or which are inherently indiscriminate in violation of the international law of armed conflict, provided that such weapons, projectiles and material and methods of warfare are the subject of a comprehensive prohibition and are included in an annex to this Statute, by an amendment in accordance with the relevant provisions set forth in articles 121 and 123;
    21. Committing outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
    22. Committing rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, as defined in article 7, paragraph 2 (f), enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence also constituting a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions;
    23. Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations;
    24. Intentionally directing attacks against buildings, material, medical units and transport, and personnel using the distinctive emblems of the Geneva Conventions in conformity with international law;
    25. Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions;
    26. Conscripting or enlisting children under the age of fifteen years into the national armed forces or using them to participate actively in hostilities.
  2. In the case of an armed conflict not of an international character, serious violations of article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely, any of the following acts committed against persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention or any other cause:
    1. Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
    2. Committing outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
    3. Taking of hostages;
    4. The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgement pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all judicial guarantees which are generally recognized as indispensable.
  3. Paragraph 2 (c) applies to armed conflicts not of an international character and thus does not apply to situations of internal disturbances and tensions, such as riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence or other acts of a similar nature.
  4. Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in armed conflicts not of an international character, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts:
    1. Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities;
    2. Intentionally directing attacks against buildings, material, medical units and transport, and personnel using the distinctive emblems of the Geneva Conventions in conformity with international law;
    3. Intentionally directing attacks against personnel, installations, material, units or vehicles involved in a humanitarian assistance or peacekeeping mission in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, as long as they are entitled to the protection given to civilians or civilian objects under the international law of armed conflict;
    4. Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives;
    5. Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault;
    6. Committing rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, as defined in article 7, paragraph 2 (f), enforced sterilization, and any other form of sexual violence also constituting a serious violation of article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions;
 
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POLITICS

Obama acknowledges civilian deaths caused by drone strikes​

APRIL 1, 2016 / 8:11 PM EDT / CBS/AP
President Obama on Friday acknowledged the "legitimate criticism" of U.S. drone strikes in the Middle East that have caused civilian deaths. At the same time, he said the U.S. has now "constructed a fairly rigid and vigorous set of criteria" to justify continued drone strikes that kill whole groups of people at once.
The U.S. came under heavy criticism for a drone strike several years ago against extremists in Yemen, which critics said actually hit a wedding party and killed women and children.
www.cbsnews.com

Obama acknowledges civilian deaths caused by drone strikes

The president said there's been "legitimate criticism" of drone strikes in the past, but he justified the current use of strikes to kill groups of people
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Is Obama a war criminal?
 
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holdover

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spat said:
You're absolutely wrong about that.

Civilians getting killed is part and parcel of war. There is no prohibition on killing civilians in even the most milquetoast version of the "rules".

What is prohibited is intentionally *targetting* civilians who are not associated with a legitimate military objective.

Every factory we bombed in WWII was almost exclusively staffed by civilians. They were all legitimate targets. If the factory is producing war materiel, it doesn't matter if they're running it on child labor, it's a legitimate target.

You would probably be hard pressed to find a building in Gaza that Hamas *isn't* using for something, or a person who isn't working for them.

Gaza should get the Dresden and Tokyo treatment. And that's only because the Heroshima and Nagasaki treatment carries too much political baggage for Isreal.

The only real fault the Isrealis have here is an unwillingness to do what needs to be done to secure real victory. That's the same problem we've had in every war since WWII.

You cannot fight like we did in Vietnam and win. To win a real war you need to unleash the full power of your military, and tell the diplomats and politicians to sit the fuck down and shut up till you're done.
Click to expand...

According to you, Hamas is justified in attacking civilians

""You would probably be hard pressed to find a building in Gaza that Hamas *isn't* using for something, or a person who isn't working for them.""

So all Israel has to do is say ""tunnel"" .

""What is prohibited is intentionally *targetting* civilians who are not associated with a legitimate military objective.""

Nice, So if you hit a refugee camp and kill 500 people, all you need to say is that there was a hamas leader there, but of course hes blown to bits so no proving it .

Thats just great. so genocide is a legal thing now? so long as theres some bad guys there , were justified to annihilate all life. Thats some sick shit man.

according to you Iran is justified to kill every Isreali if they go to war with Hamas because:

""The only real fault the ""Iranians"" have here is an unwillingness to do what needs to be done to secure real victory.""

""You would probably be hard pressed to find a building in Tel Aviv that the IDF*isn't* using for something, or a person who isn't working for them.""

or how about :

We had intell that.....
We bombed that hospital because , HQ
We bombed that school , because of tunnels
We bombed that structure because of leader.


nice . We can kill anyone We want when we want, They cant do the same back . How realistic is that?
 
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holdover said:
After teaching these kids that capitalism is evil and how We genocided the Indians and en slaved the blacks and how true socialism is the way to go , why white people are evil Now your going to try to recruit them into an ""army"" of females , homos, and trannys to fight for capitalism and our country and a corrupt president.

Well good luck with all that. I think I would go on welfare before joining todays army.

The only nice thing is if it comes to a draft, Cheerleaders are going to be drafted too. Im going to relish that.

For 50 years they have been saying We are equal, Well nows your chance to shine sweetheart, show us what your made out of .
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No, This is to enlist illegal aliens.
 
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