Cummins to pay record-setting $1.675 billion US environmental fine

Carlos Hathcock · Dec 23, 2023

I'd tell them to fuck off or we stop making engines altogether.

Willyone · Dec 23, 2023

ManualF150 said:
Cummins to pay record-setting $1.675 billion US environmental fine

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -Truck engine maker Cummins Inc has agreed in principle to pay a $1.675 billion fine for installing devices on hundreds of thousands of engines to allow them to emit excess pollution, the largest-ever civil penalty for a Clean Air Act violation, the U.S. Justice Department...

www.yahoo.com

It seems to be another attack on the diesel engine market!

And of course in CNY:

Central NY truck dealer disabled emission controls on diesel trucks, prosecutors say

The hardware and software tweaks were made to avoid some maintenance costs, increase speed and up the fuel efficiency of vehicles.

www.syracuse.com

I'm a proud diesel and gun owner. No ones gonna change that. FUJB and these damn alphabet agencies.......

I have a 2015 Indian motorcycle. Installed mild performance cams (mild lift & duration increases) and better exhaust. Then I added a "tuner" and had it programed so the internals, cams & exhaust would all play nice together, and they all do get along nicely

The tuner specifies that it is for "off road and race purposes only" which is why the tuner maker gets away, or got away, with selling their product. But the FEDs have really cracked down on these types of electrical/computer modifications. And apparently Indian (Polaris owned) is playing along with the FED. I've read that tuner manufacturers are having a helluva time cracking into the computers on the newer bikes. I expect the same is happening with autos and trucks and or most anything with an ICE. It seems to be getting to the point that, if you want to increase the performance of what you drive or ride, it might be necessary to buy an older vehicle with a carbed engine, and mod that. Fuk'rs are taking all the fun out of life

Saltwater60 · Dec 23, 2023

Did they announce their move to china yet?

Willyone · Dec 23, 2023

ManualF150 said:
I have a 2003 Harley that is carbureted and I installed slightly larger jets, tuned the carb, Voodoo coil, screaming eagle wires, and put in a Dyna2000i digital ignition system on it.

I get about 75 mpg highway with it. Just wish it had a 6th OD gear on it.

Now I want to make a diesel motorcycle... just because...

I've had several carbed bikes over the past 55ish or so years and was always able to keep them running, swap cams, change jets, if needed rebuild carbs, etc. Overall easy to maintain and all. Several years ago I bought a low mileage '99 Road King with the MM efi. Ran perfect but I was told there was no longer support for the MM efi so I sold the bike and bought a used 2012 efi Road King Police. Bike ran like a top. EFI is great, push a button and your good to go, really great overall, until they're not. I'm not efi savy so not totally comfortable with it but, it is what it is.

75 MPG is terrific. I only get around the mid 30s. But I do like to twist the throttle now & then, so.... Friend of mine put a Baker 6 speed in his 78-79 Low Rider. That was a pricey upgrade but he's glad he did it.

Saltwater60 · Dec 23, 2023

ManualF150 said:
Knowing the folks who are in office, they'd encourage it.

They want nearly all business out of the USA. I’m not sure why since they seem to like spending money.

Cavalry · Dec 23, 2023

ManualF150 said:
And of course in CNY:

Central NY truck dealer disabled emission controls on diesel trucks, prosecutors say

The hardware and software tweaks were made to avoid some maintenance costs, increase speed and up the fuel efficiency of vehicles.

www.syracuse.com

I'm a proud diesel and gun owner. No ones gonna change that. FUJB and these damn alphabet agencies.......

I know a guy who was in similar trouble. AFIK he did some sort of plea deal and was waiting on sentencing...that was a couple years ago and its like it got forgotten or something?
A buddy of mine has a diesel performance shop. He is (rightfully) paranoid about everything he does since the rules keep changing. Its to the point he purges all his customer info every 30 days, encrypts everything and keeps two phones in case one is impounded.

I want to know what these "devices" are that they got in trouble for are? Shoddy reporting or do they just not understand the concept that a tune is not a physical thing added on, or is there really a "device" that is added on. I have never heard of such a thing and am pretty into the scene.

fresch · Dec 23, 2023

Tuners (ecm), delete the dev system, get rid of the giant cat that is about 4' long and 18" around.
My truck get ~16 mpg here in upstate.

FP1201 · Dec 23, 2023

See, nothing is really "illegal" only that the dispensation is determined when you're caught! Billion Dollar fine? OK, NP, we made three Billion dollars....just the cost of doing business...of course we'll appeal and get the fine reduced, else we'll be "out of stock" when you need replacement parts and engines.

livingston · Dec 23, 2023

Just another way to destroy the diesel industry folks ... Bankrupt them... They want to do that with gun manufactures , Trump supporters like Giuliani The gas industry. ... SOP for the left

spat · Dec 23, 2023

Willyone said:
I have a 2015 Indian motorcycle. Installed mild performance cams (mild lift & duration increases) and better exhaust. Then I added a "tuner" and had it programed so the internals, cams & exhaust would all play nice together, and they all do get along nicely The tuner specifies that it is for "off road and race purposes only" which is why the tuner maker gets away, or got away, with selling their product. But the FEDs have really cracked down on these types of electrical/computer modifications. And apparently Indian (Polaris owned) is playing along with the FED. I've read that tuner manufacturers are having a helluva time cracking into the computers on the newer bikes. I expect the same is happening with autos and trucks and or most anything with an ICE. It seems to be getting to the point that, if you want to increase the performance of what you drive or ride, it might be necessary to buy an older vehicle with a carbed engine, and mod that. Fuk'rs are taking all the fun out of life

At some point it is just easier to rip out the factory computer and replace it altogether with an open sourced alternative.

MothMan · Dec 23, 2023

Proud owner of “04” CTD, 4” turbo back exhaust, Banks Econominder tuner, no DEF, no deletes, no DMV emissions standards for this year engine. Just old school diesel.

Hochulsucks1234 · Dec 23, 2023

Fuck the EPA thugs. I disabled the DPF, Urea, and EGR on my 6.7 Powerstroke. She runs a 5" turbo back exhaust and never had a problem. The fact that they put a mammoth filter in the exhaust to collect soot, then use extra diesel to burn it off BLOWS MY MIND. Then again, environmentalists are mentally ill freaks.

Cavalry · Dec 23, 2023

Here is something to think about... Why is Cummins on the hook? Stellantis buys from Cummins an engine with that other than most of the long block is different than what they sell to all other manufacturers for medium duty trucks. Its my understanding the pump and cam are Ram specific as of course as the ECM wich is supplied by Stellantis. Its not like one can even use HD truck software to get in a cummins ram computer or vice versa, they are completely different animals.

Cavalry · Dec 23, 2023

spat said:
At some point it is just easier to rip out the factory computer and replace it altogether with an open sourced alternative.

The tuner companies break the factory systems as fast as they can encrypt them. Between me and my buddies we are set up to tune just about anything on the road, domestic, euro or HD. There is no reason to get rid of a factory ECM because its choked down, just remove the chokehold.
We just acquired a late model Pete, it has been fully deleted and tuned. It would take some serious dissection to figure out it was not legit. All emission equipment is still in physically in place it would take a pretty smart cat to figure out it is just for show.

Cavalry · Dec 23, 2023

ManualF150 said:
One can either tune by programming a spare ECU or using a handheld tuner attached to the VIN of the truck.

Vin specific yes, but its to the point now where the tune can be sent to a wifi OBD dongle that is "rented" to the customer and returned. There are companies that specialize in off the shelf generic performance tunes for the "tuner" who has no clue what they are doing. Yes it can be a specific tune and there are companies that do that, but unless you are puting it on a dyno you are buying some generic shit that probably worked for someone once-opon-a-time

MothMan · Dec 23, 2023

ManualF150 said:
Anything pre-2007.5 was the best for Cummins.

I still can't believe that RAM has held onto the AISIN and 68RFE so dang long too. But I heard the AISIN contract is up for 2024.

The diesel community is guessing some kind of 8 speed ZF or a 10 speed Allison.

They really need to up the ante and offer a HO version in the 2500. RAM is lacking behind Ford and GM in the towing specs department.

But the exhaust brake in the Cummins is fantastic!

Do believe my tranny is a 48re.

spat · Dec 23, 2023

Cavalry said:
The tuner companies break the factory systems as fast as they can encrypt them. Between me and my buddies we are set up to tune just about anything on the road, domestic, euro or HD. There is no reason to get rid of a factory ECM because its choked down, just remove the chokehold.
We just acquired a late model Pete, it has been fully deleted and tuned. It would take some serious dissection to figure out it was not legit. All emission equipment is still in physically in place it would take a pretty smart cat to figure out it is just for show.

Or move to a state without inspections and then DGAF

I do need to figure out what to do with my Deuce, talk about underpowered.

Who would think you could make a 465cu diesel that only makes 135 HP., then put it on a truck with a 23,000lb GVWR. Good thing it's got some seriously low gearing or I couldn't make it up my driveway with a full load.

Research shows you can just adjust the injection pump, but it's recommend to add an EGT sensor first, apparently it's easy to melt stuff.

If I want more than another 15-20hp though, I'll need to add some water injection or something to keep the temp down.

Acer-m14 · Dec 23, 2023

Carlos Hathcock said:
I'd tell them to fuck off or we stop making engines altogether.

and parts too ..

fuck them ..

Acer-m14 · Dec 23, 2023

I'm glad this little motor needs no govt controlled computer to run

stroked out 318 Mopar to a 390 ...

that motor is like the little train . i think i can i think i can ..

with a Big No .. I can do and will do it ..

Acer-m14 · Dec 23, 2023

spat said:
Or move to a state without inspections and then DGAF

I do need to figure out what to do with my Deuce, talk about underpowered.

Who would think you could make a 465cu diesel that only makes 135 HP., then put it on a truck with a 23,000lb GVWR. Good thing it's got some seriously low gearing or I couldn't make it up my driveway with a full load.

Research shows you can just adjust the injection pump, but it's recommend to add an EGT sensor first, apparently it's easy to melt stuff.

If I want more than another 15-20hp though, I'll need to add some water injection or something to keep the temp down.

IDK .. maybe convert the motor to alcohol ??

snickers .....

Willyone · Dec 24, 2023

spat said:
At some point it is just easier to rip out the factory computer and replace it altogether with an open sourced alternative.

I agree but due to parts availability it's not worth the hassle or $$ with what I have, an Indian motorcycle with the 111ci engine. For a shade tree guy like me it would be better to pick up a pre-computer HD with a carb, bore/stroke it, good heads, induction & exhaust. That, or if you want a fast bike for the slab with little to no BS, and can live with efi, just by a Triumph Rocket lll or Hayabusa lol.

Cavalry · Dec 24, 2023

spat said:
Or move to a state without inspections and then DGAF

I do need to figure out what to do with my Deuce, talk about underpowered.

Passing NY insp is not a problem. OTR trucks can have a roadside inspection in any state, some are more indepth than others. As long as they see a DPF and its associated equipment they are going to think its functional.

As far as a LDT465, some engines respond well to tuning, some do not. Get a pyro, adjust the pump. If that makes you happy drive it. If thats not enough dont go down the rabbit hole, its just not an engine that is worth messing with. There are plenty of rotten 5.9 Cummins rams laying around, for not very much you can get a whole truck, part it out to probably make your money back and put the 5.9 in your duce. A very mild build would walk circles around anything the 465 could do.

Cavalry · Dec 24, 2023

ManualF150 said:
That's a very good question.

It's interesting to note, the 4500-5500's are not mentioned. What is so different about the chassis cab models?

Different GVW have different emissions standards.

Cummins to pay record-setting $1.675 billion US environmental fine

.308 Win

.450/400 Nitro Ex

6.5 Creedmoor

.308 Win

20×102mm Vulcan

.308 Win

6.5 Creedmoor

20×102mm Vulcan

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.308 Win

.338 Win Mag

20×102mm Vulcan

.700 Nitro Express

.338 Win Mag

.357 mag

.308 Win

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.700 Nitro Express

.308 Win

20×102mm Vulcan

20×102mm Vulcan

20×102mm Vulcan

6.5 Creedmoor

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.308 Win