What happens if New York gets nuked?
- Thread starter livingston
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JaguarJaguarGolf
6.5 Creedmoor
Read "First into Nagasaki". 800 or so Allied POW's were allowed to take shelter in a sewage ditch about 700 yards from where ground zero would be. The prisoners had seen the mushroom cloud from Hiroshima a few days before so they knew something was up. The dozen guys who stood up in the ditch to watch the show died. 700+ guys who sat in the ditch lived. Walked away from Nagasaki. Some lived long enough to be interviewed for the book which was written and published late 90's early 2000's. Similar story from Hiroshima of hundreds of uninjured survivors within a few hundred yards of GZ in a roadway tunnel that was not below grade. Soldiers smoking and joking and the ends of the tunnel died, everyone else lived. Walked away. No fallout from airbursts at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Fallout only from ground bursts. 1kt blast figure a magnitude 4 earthquake. There are some very robust heavyweight buildings in downtown Manhattan that would certainly have people survive the nuclear blast. The issue would be could they evacuate or be removed before the firestorm started a half hour after the blast. NYC modeled a 1kt going off down near Wallstreet. EMP people said we wouldn't be able to start a fire truck south of 14th Street.
eagleridge357
.223 Rem
Actually Skousen feels the western side of the range is better, as the hoards would die before reaching the western side coming from the east. The citi-folk have no mountain savvy, will be consumed by the eastern slopes. Sound thinking if you ask me. Skousen has a good brain.
I just watched 80% of his interview with Alex Jones. It was well worth my time. Gave me some things to think about I might even spend a few $ and buy the hard copy book for reference and more detail.
I definitely want out of the people's republic but I just can't swing it yet for a few reasons and when I do even though I would rather go West I think I will have to stay easy coast within a days drive of home for family reasons
camper4lyfe
.308 Win
Don't they say that cockroaches can survive a nuclear attack?
S
stuck in ny
Guest
We celebrate, make a bunch of lightning links and sten guns, and call it a day.
Vinson57
.338 Win Mag
From the OP, we would think this is NYC is hit with at least a dirty bomb, we would see refugees from there spread out in the country side in fear of radiation but also seeking food. Free flow of supplies would end for all and the "entitled" would then seek entitlement (looting). I do not see geeks and computers ever getting it right and besides, 99 % of them are on the left here. We would see empty shelves and no gas to upset the whole area, 300 miles around. Those with no guns have their stuff taken while ones who prepared slightly do much better. Martial law is declared and once again, they try to take away the guns like we have forgotten about from NOLA and the hurricane.
But that was such a small bomb relative to what's possible nowadays.
If a terrorist wanted to unleash a more cost effective attack all they have to do is take some much more readily available nuclear medicine material and tie it onto a dog, unleash it in an Upper East Side playground, kill a dozen people and make a hundred sick. The property values for that neighborhood, plus the Homeland Security response would cost hundreds of billions $$$$$$$ and throw our economy into chaos. Rinse and repeat, very low cost attacks with huge effects.
What's surprising is they haven't done it yet.
There are many many very low tech ways they could attack is that would cause exponentially greater damage than the resources needed to carry it out.
Im honestly stunned something hasn't happened yet. As a dad one of my biggest fears is sitting at work and hearing about multiple school buses around the country being attacked or a few "beslan style" school attacks. I'm sure I'm not saying anything terrorists haven't already thought of. Thank God it hasn't happened yet.
One concern is there seems to be a trend where terrorists run dry attacks or probing attacks before they are successful. I remember maybe 1 or 2 years ago a few ISIS guys got nabbed trying to break into nuclear power stations in Belgium. Im sure there is more to it than has been reported. I can't imagine it would take many armed and motivated people who didn't care about death to cause untold destruction.
JaguarJaguarGolf
6.5 Creedmoor
The US is VERY cognizant of all nuclear material in the US. We have mapped radioactivity in every city in US and will know if anything new is in transit or introduced to US. This is public knowledge. Yes smash and grab, or quickly destroy a medical machine containing isotopes is a concern.
1kt was picked because there is lots of modeling and effects tables that are public knowledge, that are based on a 1kt bomb.( you can just multiply by 10 or 100, or God forbid a 1000 to see what the effects of different weapons would be). See "Effects of Nuclear Weapons" Gladstone and Dolan 1977 (used to be "effects of atomic weapons") Yes dirty bombs can change our world, but nothing compares to even a small nuclear detonation. As the "Yoda" of nuclear weapons effects told me, "You have to think to the scale of the event". He also dismissed mass fire for detonations under 10kt in NYC, but the people from MIT and Princeton that helped me disagreed and said definitely a firestorm 20min- 30min after detonation.
To get to the "city killers" of 300 kt the bomb must be a fission-fusion-fission type device which really only governments or scientific institutions can build. I don't know the yield limits of "guntype" bombs but off the top of my head I think it's 50 kt. The one that was dropped on Hiroshima was built from an old naval cannon and was considered so reliable it was never tested before it was used. It was also armed in flight to target.
.6 kt was thought to be the size of the Soviet "Backpack nukes" that were supposed hidden by sleeper cells in the US and Europe. 60 or so have never been accounted for by the Russian military after the fall of the Soviet Union. We had Special Forces in Europe who were supposed to use backpack nukes to stop a Soviet invasion of Europe through the Fulda Gap.
That's pretty interesting thx for sharing.
What are your thoughts on a physical attack/sabatoge of the power grid? (think Metcalf substation in San jose) but on a larger scale.
Is this a legitimate threat or concern for a specific localized region?
JaguarJaguarGolf
6.5 Creedmoor
When the Mayor's rep asked me in 2002 what kind of attack we would face next I said "gun and grenade" . If you look at the training history of the bad guys we have been up against for 45 years, it starts with Skorseny, the nazi special ops guy, and goes to the Soviet "dark side of the house". These bad guys do basic infantry platoon size operations and that is their skill set. Raids, Prisoner Snatch, Reconnaissance. etc. Dropping power lines and towers, shooting out a transformer, definitely in their skill set. An EMP a mile up over Nebraska, that's a nation state. 10,000 guys coordinated in taking out ten thousand transformers,nation state.
It has been whispered for decades that Israel has told the Europeon heads of state that if they let Israel be taken out, Israel's parting shot will be to nuke all the capital cities in Europe.
I believe a similar message has been delivered to some world leaders by the US. At a meeting in Washington D.C. in 2003 I was told by a flag rank that if a certain incident had occurred "the Middle East would still be burning"
No idea if there is any truth to it, but interesting timing. I heard that i believe in 2003 there were some suitcase nukes that came very close to being detonated in America.
vanderblack
.357 mag
True, but snowflakes cant.
E the massive
.308 Win
Lets find out. Hold my beer.
You should all watch the movie THE ROAD. Pretty good depiction of a non-nuke event. A nuke event would wipe out NY 100%. The initial blasts followed by all the fallout from the West would eventually kill everyone by starvation.
I remember when I was a kid NY Civil Defense put out a book on building bomb shelters etc. My folks got a FIRST edition. One of the items you were told to have in your shelter was a semiauto 22RF and 5000 rounds of ammo for taking game and TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM YOUR FORMER FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS WHO DID NOT PREPARE. That suggestion was deleted from all later editions.
When the end comes, I'd prefer to be at ground zero.
I spend 1/2 my year 100 miles from the Yellowstone Caldera ----- about 15 seconds from incineration. That would also kill everyone in NY by blocking out the sun, close to what is depicted in THE ROAD.
As for me, my CZ 512 AR wannabe was delivered today. (with a 25 round magazine).
I remember when I was a kid NY Civil Defense put out a book on building bomb shelters etc. My folks got a FIRST edition. One of the items you were told to have in your shelter was a semiauto 22RF and 5000 rounds of ammo for taking game and TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM YOUR FORMER FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS WHO DID NOT PREPARE. That suggestion was deleted from all later editions.
When the end comes, I'd prefer to be at ground zero.
I spend 1/2 my year 100 miles from the Yellowstone Caldera ----- about 15 seconds from incineration. That would also kill everyone in NY by blocking out the sun, close to what is depicted in THE ROAD.
As for me, my CZ 512 AR wannabe was delivered today. (with a 25 round magazine).
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Then it will be their turn.
Robin
Robin
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Guys don't worry. Schumer will live.
What ?
We have no choice as to where we'd like to "Simulate" ?
We have no choice as to where we'd like to "Simulate" ?
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
There was an interesting reality TV series called "The Colony" (NOT this new bullshit show "colony" that is out). The premise was they took random people from different backgrounds, let them get hungry and thirsty for about 6-12 hours or so before the show started, and kept them in isolation. Then, they released them into a supermarket with limited food for a period of a few minutes, so they could grab whatever supplies they could carry, and then dropped them into this sectioned off old area of L.A they rented or something. (They also did one in Louisiana after Katrina, in an area basically destroyed by the storm).
Anyway, it was interesting to see these people band together trying to survive. They would even periodically send actors posing as legit new survivors, trying to see if they'd accept new people. Sometimes they accepted them and gave them some food, but other times they basically turned them away because they didn't have enough.
It was interesting to see how they gerryrigged tons of shit though. I was amazed. These people started with almost nothing, and built shit like water filters, medical facilities, setup power sources and banks, all with their own knowledge and backgrounds. Afaik they weren't really given much from the show, although they did have medical personnel on standby to help people if they got seriously ill or if they had to step in and prevent someone from getting seriously hurt.
I feel like in reality they'd probably also have access to firearms which would've helped (which, they didn't let them have, in order to control the simulation a bit more). Still, pretty good. Got through two seasons before they shut it down, but I loved watching it.
Anyway, it was interesting to see these people band together trying to survive. They would even periodically send actors posing as legit new survivors, trying to see if they'd accept new people. Sometimes they accepted them and gave them some food, but other times they basically turned them away because they didn't have enough.
It was interesting to see how they gerryrigged tons of shit though. I was amazed. These people started with almost nothing, and built shit like water filters, medical facilities, setup power sources and banks, all with their own knowledge and backgrounds. Afaik they weren't really given much from the show, although they did have medical personnel on standby to help people if they got seriously ill or if they had to step in and prevent someone from getting seriously hurt.
I feel like in reality they'd probably also have access to firearms which would've helped (which, they didn't let them have, in order to control the simulation a bit more). Still, pretty good. Got through two seasons before they shut it down, but I loved watching it.
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Fortunately I'm significantly upwind of nyc
Jmac
.357 mag
No more Democrats voting blocs and hope Cuomo is there also
